Lame Duck Airplanes

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Dec 28, 2010
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Jaybird180
Is there an age beyond which the odds fall decidedly against pursuing an airplane that has been sitting on the ramp untended?

I have spotted a 201 that repotedly has been adrift 3yrs. Rumour has it, the owner died after completion of the annual.

I have no idea of the condition other than it needs a wash and wax.
 
We can all speculate. The only real answer is if you're interested, send a mechanic out there to look at it and know for sure the condition of this airplane you seek.
 
It all depends on the particular aircraft and how much it is going to take to get it up to speed vs what it will be worth when you get it there.

Something like a rare warbird, there is no time limit. It could be sitting neglected for decades and it wouldnt matter. On the other hand, there are tons of very affordable, already airworthy 210s out there (76 for sale on Controller alone as of this afternoon) that I personally wouldn't even bother with this one unless the price was cheap, AND I was an A&P with spare time on my hands/looking for a project.
 
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Another thing to consider is the potential legal hurdles of trying to buy an airplane from a deceased person's estate.
 
I may need a Mooney expert (or at least someone to give me a WAG) soon.
 
My Mooney sat for not even a year and they had to do a top overhaul because everything had corroded. The airframe was corrosion treated at the factory - the airframe on my bird is spotless. What you have to watch out for is the tube steel fueselage frame - there is an SB for an inspection on it and they can corrode even if treated. Again, no issues on my bird. What did happen on my plane that was overlooked was the seals in the fuel tank dried out and cracked - and the people I bought it from never kept it full because they usually traveled with 3 and bags. It was more of a seep than a leak, but it was still airworthy. Putting bladders in it was not a cheap venture. The grease in the hub of the propeller had attracted moisture and was all corroded when we took it apart for OH. People often overlook propellers - that was another not cheap venture (it was so bad the difference between overhaul and new prop was $500, so I just got a new one)

Now I have a really nice airplane, and I suppose it was when I bought it too. But unless its a killer deal I would not buy an airplane that had sat for awhile again.
 
PS the people who owned it before me put 20ish in it. So that's close to 50k to bring an airplane back to nice airplane status.
 
It depends, besides being ugly I have brought them back for less than 10k after a decade sitting. A teacher of mine brought a Navion back after about the same amount of time for some hydraulic hoses.

ANY airplane can be brought back given sufficient time and money, however the lower the value the harder it is to justify it.
 
Vito can make sure they're really dead if you have a problem.

Fearless Tower said:
Another thing to consider is the potential legal hurdles of trying to buy an airplane from a deceased person's estate.
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wabower said:
Vito can make sure they're really dead if you have a problem.
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Only issue with the purchase of mine was getting the paper trail from the dead dude to his wife. FAA just asked for a letter from her stating that she was sole heir.
 
Would the FAA guarantee good title is she wasn't?

Skylane81E said:
Only issue with the purchase of mine was getting the paper trail from the dead dude to his wife. FAA just asked for a letter from her stating that she was sole heir.
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well, it was a mooney when it was parked, and unless it's been in very fertile soil it's unlikely to have grown into a useable airplane. So keep looking.
 
Each plane has to be treated individually. No hard and fast rules. I looked at a C150 that had been kept in good condition but never flown for four years because the elderly owner believed one of his grandsons would grow up to be a pilot. He finally had to sell it when no one wanted to follow in his footsteps. I didn't buy it because something better came along a few days later.
 
JHW said:
well, it was a mooney when it was parked, and unless it's been in very fertile soil it's unlikely to have grown into a useable airplane. So keep looking.
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Your idea of a useable airplane must be different than mine. It just depends on his mission - if he wants to carry 2 people and bags, while going pretty fast and not burning much gas it's about the best choice around. If he wants to carry 4 people and bags he's gonna be looking at a 210 or an A36
 
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Jaybird180 said:
Is there an age beyond which the odds fall decidedly against pursuing an airplane that has been sitting on the ramp untended?

I have spotted a 201 that repotedly has been adrift 3yrs. Rumour has it, the owner died after completion of the annual.

I have no idea of the condition other than it needs a wash and wax.
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I have made contact with a few owners of planes that appear to be tie down queens... One owner did get back to me saying that I could have the plane for cheap but did mention there was a lien against it for the tie down rent which was what his asking price was, wouldn't pass annul (wing corrosion) that is why its sitting there, and the engine was very high time..

Even though I do compliment the owners honesty, hmmm no thanks I'll keep looking.

Sad to see so many derelict planes out there...
 
JHW said:
well, it was a mooney when it was parked, and unless it's been in very fertile soil it's unlikely to have grown into a useable airplane. So keep looking.
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According to his original post, the airplane that had been sitting for a while was a 210.

He didn't say if the Mooney he was looking at had been sitting around as well.
 
Isn't there title insurance for planes?

In Arkansas, much of the smaller plots of hill country land are sold without a title search, which can be expensive, time consuming, and often inconclusive. Instead, a one time title insurance payment is made at the time of the sale.
 
tinerj said:
Isn't there title insurance for planes?

In Arkansas, much of the smaller plots of hill country land are sold without a title search, which can be expensive, time consuming, and often inconclusive. Instead, a one time title insurance payment is made at the time of the sale.
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there is. but it still makes it hard to sell again if there are old issues that cant be cleared up
 
With enough money, any aircraft can be rebuilt, just like new, and any title can be cleared. It's all about what it's worth to you.
My buddy just put a new engine, new radios, new navigation, new intercom, totaling over $32K into a C-150 that wasn't worth $8K before the engine blew.
It's his "baby" and it has great sentimental value. Or he's just nuts.
 
Old avionics, but it looks like paperwork was filed on it Sept 2012. I saw some rust around tail pushrods and other hardware. The gear looks like it needs work, and the interior is falling apart. 1978 model. Standard 6 pack
 
We've got a 421 on the ramp here on Mustang Island that's been there for over 2 years.

The guy had an engine fail at altitude. He put it down here, had the engine and prop pulled - and disappeared. It has sat ever since.

This happened all over the country during the Great Recession, as people with broken planes got underwater in lots of loans. Every airport I land at seems to have one or two of these poor derelicts on the ramp.

Our plane sits outside for one week per year -- at Oshkosh. It takes us a month of TLC after we get back to clean up the mess. And that's after one WEEK.

It's a buyer's market. There is ZERO reason to mess with a project like you're describing.
 
Jay Honeck said:
We've got a 421 on the ramp here on Mustang Island that's been there for over 2 years.

The guy had an engine fail at altitude. He put it down here, had the engine and prop pulled - and disappeared. It has sat ever since.

This happened all over the country during the Great Recession, as people with broken planes got underwater in lots of loans. Every airport I land at seems to have one or two of these poor derelicts on the ramp.

Our plane sits outside for one week per year -- at Oshkosh. It takes us a month of TLC after we get back to clean up the mess. And that's after one WEEK.

It's a buyer's market. There is ZERO reason to mess with a project like you're describing.
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I think I agree, however I promised the Airport Owner I'd follow up. He said if I worked out a deal with them & got the plane flying he'd forgive all the arrears fees. Unless they give it me (maybe even with cash) I doubt it could meet my standards without being one of those so-called "labors of love", of which I'm not inclined.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I didn't know you had a Mooney. ;)
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EdFred said:
Actually, I do.
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You do know, Kent, that legend has it that Al Mooney stopped by Lock Haven and Pug Piper, in his magnanimity, put up the prototype M20 in Piper's hangars, and Pug entertained Mr. Mooney that evening.

While.

His engineers "admired" Mooney's new craft in extreme detail.

My be completely bogus, but what a great story it makes. And seriously - what resemblance can you see between the Comanche and Piper's other products of the day?
 
SCCutler said:
You do know, Kent, that legend has it that Al Mooney stopped by Lock Haven and Pug Piper, in his magnanimity, put up the prototype M20 in Piper's hangars, and Pug entertained Mr. Mooney that evening.

While.

His engineers "admired" Mooney's new craft in extreme detail.

My be completely bogus, but what a great story it makes. And seriously - what resemblance can you see between the Comanche and Piper's other products of the day?
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Not quite. Piper asked Mooney to design the Comanche. There was no thievery. Piper took the design and made it a "wide body" Mooney.
 
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You forgot to mention Piper's specific design requirements that were different.

1. The Comanche cabin had to be of sufficient size to accommodate normal-size people without causing immediate gald.

2. The vertical tail had to face forward.

EdFred said:
Not quite. Piper asked Mooney to design the Comanche. There was no thievery. Piper took the design and made it a "wide body" Mooney.
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wabower said:
You forgot to mention Piper's specific design requirements that were different.

1. The Comanche cabin had to be of sufficient size to accommodate normal-size people without causing immediate gald.

2. The vertical tail had to face forward.
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...and it had to go slower and burn more gas:D:D:rofl:
 
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Yesterday, I spoke with the executor of the deceased's estate, his son. The father had 7+ airplanes, but the Mooney was in his name and the other 6 in a corporation. I don't know, but it implies special affection for the Mooney.

Son did give me verbal permission to have a mechanic look it over. If I do, I will have to get the keys from him. Son says he has all the paperwork on the plane, so from a documentation perspective it should be a cakewalk.

Best case scenario: Engine is good, airframe is corrosion free. Not sure about the paint, but it does need interior cosmetics and cleanup and the panel is outdated. The son claims everything is functional, only mentioning a drain that needs replacement. He seems to know the airplane very well.

How do I evaluate my risk in this scenario?
 
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