L39 Training Flight in Santa Fe

dans2992

dans2992

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Dans2992
So, last week I took a 1 hr training flight (and ground school) with Larry from Jet Warbird training center.

1 hr is about all I could afford, but it was a really cool experience. I did pretty much _all_ the flying including takeoffs and landings, aileron rolls and a loop, with Larry’s guidance from the backseat.

Here is a video of the “best” 10 minutes of the one hour flight. I also have the whole thing if anyone else wants to see the full 60 min....


Larry also has a Mig15, Fouga, T33 and some other planes available to fly and/or get typed in.
 
This has been a bucket list item of mine for a while.
Pilot size restrictions?
$?
 
Not sure on size restrictions. I’m about 6’ 180lb. Was a “bucket list” item for me as well. Pilot cert and current medical required. Larry is an FAA examiner on all these aircraft types as well.

Cost was around $2800 for the 1 hr flight (and there was about 2 hrs ground school included) but here’s the website that might answer some of the other questions:

http://www.jetwarbird.com/
 
$2800 is not as bad as I would have thought. I knew a guy who paid $15K for a ride in a MiG29 but that was airfare included.
 
Mig29 is a whole different level. It’s supersonic and goes to FL600+.

Everything here is subsonic.
 
That looked like a lot of fun. Kinda steep on the price, though.

Curious, had you done any acro before that flight?
 
Zero acro. This was my first.

Yes, not super cheap, but at full takeoff power it’s burning 330 gal/hr of Jet A, so a huge part of it is the gas. Nobody’s getting taken to the cleaners, I think it’s a “fair” price.
 
Thanks for the pirep. I had some maintenance done at Santa Fe last year, saw the L39 and Mig15 operating. Have often wondered what it cost and how it worked.
 
dans2992 said:
Zero acro. This was my first.

Yes, not super cheap, but at full takeoff power it’s burning 330 gal/hr of Jet A, so a huge part of it is the gas. Nobody’s getting taken to the cleaners, I think it’s a “fair” price.
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I wasn’t at all trying to imply you were getting “taken to the cleaners” on the price. Sorry if that’s how it appeared. Just commenting that it is very pricey for the hour. An hour of acro in Decathlon or Great Lakes bipe is much more in my affordable zone. It did look like a LOT of fun.

Jets are very expensive. I was at the Monterey Jet Center one time, having flown there with my wife in our Super Viking, and waiting to return the crew car. The guy in front of me was ordering fuel for his jet. I took note of how many pounds of Jet A he purchased and, after he’d left, asked the attendant their price per pound of Jet A. A quick calculation showed that the guy had just spent $26,000 to fuel up his jet!!! Must be nice to be rich.

The interesting thing is that it doesn’t look all that expensive to buy an L-39. I see them on TAP in the $250K range. That’s about what a new Cessna 172 costs. But, wow, the operating costs are really extreme for the jet.


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dans2992 said:
Zero acro. This was my first.
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Looks like you enjoyed it. Might see if you can find someone with a Decathlon to rent. Lot of (much cheaper) acro fun in that.

What I thought was interesting is that you still had to dive for airspeed several times before doing the maneuver. Makes sense, if course, but kinda ruined my mental image of ridiculous power of a jet. Also thought it was interesting how slow the rolls looked. I would have imagined them to be quicker. Did your instructor explain why only 2/3 instead of full stick deflection?

In the Decathlon, I dive to get airspeed in the 130 mph range before aileron rolls or loops. Same control inputs, same dive, but WAY different speeds.


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The rolls were only 2/3 stick deflection. It was designed as a jet trainer, not an airshow platform. :)

I agree on the power. Certainly faster than my Comanche, (3600lb of thrust I think) but, not “overpowered” by any means.

There are definitely much cheaper and better acro platforms. This was really because I wanted to “fly a jet” not necessarily about the acro.
 
dans2992 said:
The rolls were only 2/3 stick deflection. It was designed as a jet trainer, not an airshow platform. :)

I agree on the power. Certainly faster than my Comanche, (3600lb of thrust I think) but, not “overpowered” by any means.

There are definitely much cheaper and better acro platforms. This was really because I wanted to “fly a jet” not necessarily about the acro.
Click to expand...

Good for you on doing this, and thanks for posting the video. Looked like a lot of fun.

A couple of other things I moticed in the video which I thought were interesting. Your instructor talked a lot about degrees of pitch, not just for the acro, but also for the takeoff and landings. Makes sense, but I never really had any instructors talk that way in my flying, more of a just pull back here, and that’s about the right pitch attitude. I like the degees thing. I think I’ll take a look at that next time I’m flying my plane. On the other hand, I’ve been getting checked out in a Great Lakes biplane, and it doesn’t have a working attitude indicator, so the whole, that’s about right, thing comes back into play.

The second thing I noticed was that the jet seemed very sensitive in bank. Your instructor even commented about that. I seem to remember reading about one early US fighter or trainer (T-33 maybe?) that had boosted ailerons or something. Do you know if the L-39 has anything like that?

Again, really enjoyed the video. Glad you posted it.


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Glad you enjoyed the experience,have it on my bucket list.
 
jimhorner said:
Good for you on doing this, and thanks for posting the video. Looked like a lot of fun.

A couple of other things I moticed in the video which I thought were interesting. Your instructor talked a lot about degrees of pitch, not just for the acro, but also for the takeoff and landings. Makes sense, but I never really had any instructors talk that way in my flying, more of a just pull back here, and that’s about the right pitch attitude. I like the degees thing. I think I’ll take a look at that next time I’m flying my plane.
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I don't know the background of the instructor in question, but it's a very typical approach to instruction in jet trainers (ask me how I know) in the military. Reason is the Services focus on the control and performance concept of effecting flight path changes, as opposed to the primary and secondary instrument kabuki stuff of part 61. As a result, everything is very "ADI and power" binary in nature. We do the same thing in the USAF. 5 degrees NL, 80% power for XYZ descent gradient clean, etc. Acro same deal, except we introduce AOA and G-load into the equation during the maneuvering monitoring.

dans2992 said:
The rolls were only 2/3 stick deflection. It was designed as a jet trainer, not an airshow platform. :)

I agree on the power. Certainly faster than my Comanche, (3600lb of thrust I think) but, not “overpowered” by any means.

There are definitely much cheaper and better acro platforms. This was really because I wanted to “fly a jet” not necessarily about the acro.
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Agreed 100%. It's a relatively underpowered basic jet trainer, not a particularly robust acro platform. None of the jets are, to include the T-38 I fly for a living.

The piston offerings are much more 'tumbly' and capable body-discomforting flight than these jets. Pitts, Edges et al. Even the T-6 TexII is a more versatile acro platform in my experience with it. I will say though, the roll rate of the 38 is pretty up there. We have a limit on continuous rolls because it can couple out axis and quickly over-G the aircraft. 720deg/sec is no joke.
 
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As for the loop altitude... well, the field elevation was 6320’, surrounded by mountains much higher.... :)
 
If anyone is interested, here’s the 1+ hr flight video in its entirety.

 
jimhorner said:
I seem to remember reading about one early US fighter or trainer (T-33 maybe?) that had boosted ailerons or something. Do you know if the L-39 has anything like that?
Click to expand...

Coincidentally, I also spent some time with Larry this month and ended up logging 1.7 hours in the L-39. I had previously flown his Fouga. The Fouga has boosted ailerons but the L-39 does not. What the L-39 DOES have is a bungee assist which I underestimated when looping the plane. I was targetting a 4 g pull and went straight to 5 before I knew it.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10162715891110431

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10162715901215431
 
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dans2992 said:
If anyone is interested, here’s the 1+ hr flight video in its entirety.
Click to expand...

That instructor seems like a really great guy. Calm, positive, encouraging. Maybe I’ll win the lottery someday and have the excess cash to do something like this. Looked like a lotta fun.
 
jeremyk13 said:
Coincidentally, I also spent some time with Larry this month and ended up logging 1.7 hours in the L-39. I had previously flown his Fouga. The Fouga has boosted ailerons but the L-39 does not. What the L-39 DOES have is a bungee assist which I underestimated when looping the plane. I was targetting a 4 g pull and went straight to 5 before I knew it.
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That’s interesting. How long did you maintain the overpull?
 
jimhorner said:
That’s interesting. How long did you maintain the overpull?
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About 5 or 6 seconds. Towards the top of the loop, I unloaded to try to make it more of a circle than an oval. The timing of that matched up pretty well with a minor case of tunnel vision starting to come on.
 
jimhorner said:
The guy in front of me was ordering fuel for his jet. I took note of how many pounds of Jet A he purchased and, after he’d left, asked the attendant their price per pound of Jet A. A quick calculation showed that the guy had just spent $26,000 to fuel up his jet!!!
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Paying $26,000 is not impossible, but that's one massive jet. Citation Sovereign can take 1700 gallons. At $7/gal that's "only" $11,900. You aren't going to pay this much to gas up your L-39, because it's simply not big enough.
 
zaitcev said:
Paying $26,000 is not impossible, but that's one massive jet. Citation Sovereign can take 1700 gallons. At $7/gal that's "only" $11,900. You aren't going to pay this much to gas up your L-39, because it's simply not big enough.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it was a G5. Not sure how much those things hold.

My L-39? Boy, I wish!!


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