Knots

[Richard]

What knots or hitches do you use? What is your most commonly used and which do you wish you could tie because you see the practicality of it?

I use the bowline, reef, clove hitch, constrictor knot (usually in whipping), rolling hitch, sheet bend, timber hitch and trucker's hitch. For marrying two lines often I'll use a fisherman's knot (two overhand knots, opposed). For bundling whether it be a sail or a stack of pruned branches I'll usea marling hitch. I'll put a double figure 8 at the end as a stopper knot.

Those are the main knots and hitches I use but always am on the look out for others. I've never been happy with the results of any Turk's head or monkey fists I've tied. I've had Ashley's Book of Knots for about 30 years as the #1 reference.

 

[SkyHog]

What knots or hitches do you use? What is your most commonly used and which do you wish you could tie because you see the practicality of it?

I use the bowline, reef, clove hitch, constrictor knot (usually in whipping), rolling hitch, sheet bend, timber hitch and trucker's hitch. For marrying two lines often I'll use a fisherman's knot (two overhand knots, opposed). For bundling whether it be a sail or a stack of pruned branches I'll usea marling hitch. I'll put a double figure 8 at the end as a stopper knot.

Those are the main knots and hitches I use but always am on the look out for others. I've never been happy with the results of any Turk's head or monkey fists I've tied. I've had Ashley's Book of Knots for about 30 years as the #1 reference.

Depends on what I'm doing. I'm not real big on knots, but for fishing and tieing lines and stuff, I'll use either a blood knot or Albright knot. Then there's a knot I use for tieing a loop to a metal loop, but I don't know what its called. It essentially gets tighter regardless of which way its pulled, so it CANNOT come off.

 

[Bill]

I'm not a big knot person, but I do use regularly:

Square - for joining two like lines
Bowline - won't slip, easy to untie once the load is removed
Sheetbend (I think) - for joining two unlike lines
Two half hitches
Tauntline hitch (variation of two half hitches)
Oh, forgot the figure eight knot, great line stopper

Now just have to decide if I want to sell the sailboat or knot.

 

[gkainz]

axbow - just keep throwing on the half-hitches until it takes an ax to unbow it.

 

[Shipoke]

The Knot i use most are the ones on my Airspeed indicator,(lol)
someone had to say it,might as well be me
Dave G

 

[jesse]

I never made it very far in boyscouts.

I don't really know any knots. I just keep tieing them and pulling like hell until it seems like it will hold

 

[HPNPilot1200]

The Knot i use most are the ones on my Airspeed indicator,(lol)
someone had to say it,might as well be me
Dave G

What a knot-head!

Jason

P.S. Someone had to say that too...heh, j/k

 

[Richard]

axbow - just keep throwing on the half-hitches until it takes an ax to unbow it.

AKA knifeknot. I guess it would be useless to ask if you know how to splice.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

I mainly use:

Bowline - quoting Bill: won't slip, easy to untie once the load is removed
Two half hitches
Cleat hitch
Square knot
Figure eight knot

I use the Bowline, cleat hitch, and Figure eight knot the most when I'm sailing my sailboat and just the cleat hitch and bowline when on the motorboat.

...I enjoy mixing the two (Sailing and Flying) since they both include similar aerodynamic study.

Jason

The rabbit goes up the tree, around the tree and then back down the tree....

 

[Richard]

I never made it very far in boyscouts.

I don't really know any knots. I just keep tieing them and pulling like hell until it seems like it will hold

But use of the proper knot or hitch takes all the guess work out of wondering if it will hold or knot. It's always after the accident that folks say they should learn how to tie the proper knot. It is absolutely not an exageration to say your very life could depend on a knot. You don't have to go to extreme living to realize that. That guy in front of you on the road carrying a heavy load....you would hope he knows how to secure his load.

I like knots, what is really interesting is discovering what situation calls for which knot. I know of about 50 that I use on occassion, 10 or more I could tie in the dark in an awkward position. If you could hands down master just three: bowline, clove hitch, trucker's hitch, you'd be mostly okay in most situations.

 

[Bill]

clove hitch,

I like the clove hitch, but have never seemed to find a good use for it. It seems to me that it would come loose and fall down without constant strain on the line.

 

[Richard]

I like the clove hitch, but have never seemed to find a good use for it. It seems to me that it would come loose and fall down without constant strain on the line.

Most hitches do need tension. Thats the beauty of hitches, they bind the line well and spill when tension is removed. With a single half hitch I tied a 120 ton boat in a 6 knot current to a fuel dock as we fueled. When we were done fueling we motored up stream a bit to slip the hitch and fell away from the dock. It was thing of simplicity; that's what made it so beautiful. I didn't have to lean over the rail taking forever to work loose some other knot or hitch emabarrassing me and the boat. And I was completely satisfied knowing the boat was secured to the dock as long as the current ran.

A hitch also distributes the load over a larger area of the securing point. If the hitch is to be more permanent I would tie a bowline over the top of the hitch. That secures the bitter end which would prevent the hitch from spilling. A stopper knot in the end snugged up tight to the hitch also has the same effect but is more prone to spilling when tension is removed.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Although I knew more knots & names at one time, somehow I've gotten through life with primarily the aviator's hitch, square knot, bowline, and half or full hitches.

 

[Bill]

Most hitches do need tension.

Didn't think about that, but you're right. Even my beloved two half hitches will pretty much fail unless under constant tansion.

I suppose a few turns around a piling secured with a bowline would be good if the strain is not constant.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The knot I use most (aside from the ASI ones... haha Dave!) is the "airplane tie-down knot." I don't know what it's actually called. Loop the rope around itself twice, using the friction from the first loop to hold the second loop.

That guy in front of you on the road carrying a heavy load....you would hope he knows how to secure his load.

Yeah... With chains and straps tightened via ratchets and cheater bars, not some measly rope with a knot in it.

Actually, if you DO see a knot securing a load, get out of the way 'cuz it means that strap has already failed once, and I guarantee the knot won't hold the same amount of tension the strap was designed for.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

The knot I use most (aside from the ASI ones... haha Dave!) is the "airplane tie-down knot." I don't know what it's actually called. Loop the rope around itself twice, using the friction from the first loop to hold the second loop.
quote]

That's what sounds like the aviator's hitch (it's a "locked" on itself type of hitch) of which at least 2 in a series under tension is wise. Relatively easy to untie even when iced over.

 

[Richard]

The knot I use most (aside from the ASI ones... haha Dave!) is the "airplane tie-down knot." I don't know what it's actually called. Loop the rope around itself twice, using the friction from the first loop to hold the second loop.



Yeah... With chains and straps tightened via ratchets and cheater bars, not some measly rope with a knot in it.

Actually, if you DO see a knot securing a load, get out of the way 'cuz it means that strap has already failed once, and I guarantee the knot won't hold the same amount of tension the strap was designed for.

Well, I would hope you comm drivers would take more care than the avg driver.

Once, I was passed on the freeway by a boat. Not a boat on a trailer, I mean just the boat. This guy in his pick-up was speeding like a bat outta hell with his trailer fishtailing. I slowed way down and as he got a few yards in front of me his boat decided to leave the trailer. His trailer unhitched and broke the safety chains. He kept driving 1/2 mile or so dragging the 1/2" link chains.

Another time, I was about to pass a lowboy stacked with 24" culvert pipes. I saw the first pipe shift and was able to slide over into the other lane. Rapid response lane change so if a vehicle had been there I would have been toast. I squirted by the whole scene unscathed. Looking in my rear view mirror it looked like lincoln logs bouncing along the road bed. There was a knot (covey, pod?) of cars following and they all got taken out. I was the only one to escape. Thankfully I was on an LA 6 lane freeway at the time. If the road was any narrower I wouldn't have made it. Straps and chains are no more safer than the proper rope.

The problem is most folks use whatever is available. And the wrong knot or improperly tied can reduce tensile strength to 1/2 or less.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Well, I would hope you comm drivers would take more care than the avg driver.

Luckily, I'm a van driver. Most of the time, the only securement I have to worry about is the occasional strap or load lock to keep something from tipping over or sliding inside the trailer. Call me lazy, but I don't really want to be outside this time of year (or in the middle of summer for that matter) strapping and tarping loads for 4+ hours at a time. Plus, driving flats is a lot more dangerous. One of our flatbed drivers was killed last year when a forklift driver made an egregious error that caused the load to fall onto the truck driver.

Once, I was passed on the freeway by a boat. Not a boat on a trailer, I mean just the boat. This guy in his pick-up was speeding like a bat outta hell with his trailer fishtailing. I slowed way down and as he got a few yards in front of me his boat decided to leave the trailer. His trailer unhitched and broke the safety chains. He kept driving 1/2 mile or so dragging the 1/2" link chains.

Every weekend between Memorial Day and Labor Day I see about three of these guys, usually with SUV's, upside down in the ditch. On holiday weekends, seven or eight. Personally, I think anything the size of a full-size SUV or van should require a license endorsement. These guys are driving them like the four-banger rice burner they drove when they were 16 and have no respect for the potentially deadly (both to themselves and others) differences between the two.

There was a knot (covey, pod?) of cars following and they all got taken out. I was the only one to escape.

Too many people following too close. That's the highway version of runway incursions - It's a major problem.

I see so many pickups lose their loads because they tied them down with nothing more than a single loop of twine, or didn't bother tying them down at all. There's an awful lot of destroyed furniture on the side of America's highways! Most of these folks seem to think that if it stays on the truck when it's stopped it'll stay on the truck when it's moving. Sigh.

 

[gkainz]

AKA knifeknot. I guess it would be useless to ask if you know how to splice.

I was in Naval Aviation and resisted all that swabbie sailor stuff with all my strength, some of that black art of marlinspike seamanship rubbed off on me. Of course, growing up in a powerline construction company taught me a number of knots and lashes for hauling loads up the poles, pulling wires, etc. I never did make a respectable monkey fist, but played around with line, rope and small stuff. I was particularly intruiged with splicing, however. For some reason I thought splicing eyes was just plain fun and entertaining.

Ode to Rope

As I cast off for that very first time,
The "rope" in my hand has now become "line".
And hauling the sails to the top of the mast,
That "rope", now a "halyard" holds strong, taught and fast.
Then sailing in brisk winds full force on a beat.
The sails are trimmed in by that "rope" that's a "sheet".
And now at my anchorage with sails safely stowed,
I trust in that "rope" that now serves as a "rode".
Through all my life I will never lose hope,
Of a reason or time to play with a rope.

Lt/C Barry Briggs

http://www.commanderbob.com/cbknots.html - scroll to the bottom for some good links

 

[Richard]

I was in Naval Aviation and resisted all that swabbie sailor stuff with all my strength, some of that black art of marlinspike seamanship rubbed off on me. Of course, growing up in a powerline construction company taught me a number of knots and lashes for hauling loads up the poles, pulling wires, etc. I never did make a respectable monkey fist, but played around with line, rope and small stuff. I was particularly intruiged with splicing, however. For some reason I thought splicing eyes was just plain fun and entertaining.

Ode to Rope

As I cast off for that very first time,
The "rope" in my hand has now become "line".
And hauling the sails to the top of the mast,
That "rope", now a "halyard" holds strong, taught and fast.
Then sailing in brisk winds full force on a beat.
The sails are trimmed in by that "rope" that's a "sheet".
And now at my anchorage with sails safely stowed,
I trust in that "rope" that now serves as a "rode".
Through all my life I will never lose hope,
Of a reason or time to play with a rope.

Lt/C Barry Briggs

http://www.commanderbob.com/cbknots.html - scroll to the bottom for some good links

That's really good. One of my pet peeves is folks still call it rope even after it's been put into service.

My monkey fists were always lopsided because I couldn't snug up the knot evenly all the way around (4x). I beat that problem by piercing a baseball with a small line and weighted with melted fishing weights.

 

[Henning]

What knots or hitches do you use? What is your most commonly used and which do you wish you could tie because you see the practicality of it?

I use the bowline, reef, clove hitch, constrictor knot (usually in whipping), rolling hitch, sheet bend, timber hitch and trucker's hitch. For marrying two lines often I'll use a fisherman's knot (two overhand knots, opposed). For bundling whether it be a sail or a stack of pruned branches I'll usea marling hitch. I'll put a double figure 8 at the end as a stopper knot.

Those are the main knots and hitches I use but always am on the look out for others. I've never been happy with the results of any Turk's head or monkey fists I've tied. I've had Ashley's Book of Knots for about 30 years as the #1 reference.

Probably my most used knot will be a variant of the bowline, often with multiple bights to spread chafing and wear. Then your basic bend hitch though I'll typically make it a rolling hitch for holding control and untying under tension. After that it's pretty even up with reef knots, majic bends, sheep shanks and other knots. Lot's of splicing as well.

As to Marlin Spike work, I used to do a reasonable Turks Head (which I use instead of a monkeys fist), but I don't do it much and would probably need someone to run me through it again. Maybe when I go old, weird and over the top, I'll just hang out and make thump mats out on the deck like an old deckhand of mine used to (good old guy, couldn't fire him, couldn't let him out on a work deck either, just keep him working inside).

 

[gkainz]

I still can't tie a bowline with one hand, no matter how much I've practiced.

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

T

My monkey fists were always lopsided because I couldn't snug up the knot evenly all the way around (4x).

The Monkey Fist

 

[gkainz]

The Monkey Fist

nice instructions...but that was a fun waste of an hour! Better instructions but the results are no better than 20 years ago!

 

[Richard]

nice instructions...but that was a fun waste of an hour! Better instructions but the results are no better than 20 years ago!

Those instructions posted by KD result in a three strand knot about the size of a marble. What they don't show is the stuffing you put inside the knot or the method to snug up the knot.

For a monkey fist the size of a base ball or slightly smaller you put a lead weight wrapped in cloth in the center of the knot. To reduce internal fraying you must snug up the strands to make everything tight. I prefer 4 strands rather than 3 strands because there are less gaps 'tween the strands whch means the knot is less likely to work loose.

The trick is getting it all snugged up and as round as possible. Mine were always more eliptical on any side probably 'cause the inner cloth bunched up in places or because the strands were unevenly tensioned. The proper monkey fist is tied with one continuous line, try going 'round and 'round to ge 'er all snugged up correctly. It requires the patience of Job. You must pay attention because it is easy to lose your place or get turned around backwards so then you begin to undo your work. The only way to prevent that is to always hold the knot in one hand in the same position. Remember, the lay of the yarn in the strand looks the same from either side.

I much prefer splicing. The only trouble I've had in over 20 years of splicing is the 7 strand braid on braid in large hawsers. I send that to my buddy an ex-Navy rigger.

 

[Henning]

That's really good. One of my pet peeves is folks still call it rope even after it's been put into service.

My monkey fists were always lopsided because I couldn't snug up the knot evenly all the way around (4x). I beat that problem by piercing a baseball with a small line and weighted with melted fishing weights.

There are 2 'Ropes' in service on a boat, can you name them?

 

[Henning]

Those instructions posted by KD result in a three strand knot about the size of a marble. What they don't show is the stuffing you put inside the knot or the method to snug up the knot.

For a monkey fist the size of a base ball or slightly smaller you put a lead weight wrapped in cloth in the center of the knot. To reduce internal fraying you must snug up the strands to make everything tight. I prefer 4 strands rather than 3 strands because there are less gaps 'tween the strands whch means the knot is less likely to work loose.

The trick is getting it all snugged up and as round as possible. Mine were always more eliptical on any side probably 'cause the inner cloth bunched up in places or because the strands were unevenly tensioned. The proper monkey fist is tied with one continuous line, try going 'round and 'round to ge 'er all snugged up correctly. It requires the patience of Job. You must pay attention because it is easy to lose your place or get turned around backwards so then you begin to undo your work. The only way to prevent that is to always hold the knot in one hand in the same position. Remember, the lay of the yarn in the strand looks the same from either side.

I much prefer splicing. The only trouble I've had in over 20 years of splicing is the 7 strand braid on braid in large hawsers. I send that to my buddy an ex-Navy rigger.

First off, lead weights and bronze nuts... are stricktly a no go issue, even illegal. I've seen plenty of people hurt when they come down off the ship and I even had one come through my tug wheelhouse window once when working ship assist. Most people build them with balls inside anymore, although someone with tallent will build fist on fist on fist. Those with any finesse and talent not to mention style taste and proper breeding will not tie a monkeys fist but will use a Turks Head. It doesn't take much weight to send a fist or head to the end of its 200' leash, it's more in how you hold the payline and how much swing room you have. Now Lassoing a bollard 10 ft over your head with a 9" line while downstreaming past, that takes talent.

 

[Richard]

There are 2 'Ropes' in service on a boat, can you name them?

Jacobs rope ladder and cat rope to clip safety harness to?

 

[Richard]

First off, lead weights and bronze nuts... are stricktly a no go issue, even illegal. I've seen plenty of people hurt when they come down off the ship and I even had one come through my tug wheelhouse window once when working ship assist. Most people build them with balls inside anymore, although someone with tallent will build fist on fist on fist. Those with any finesse and talent not to mention style taste and proper breeding will not tie a monkeys fist but will use a Turks Head. It doesn't take much weight to send a fist or head to the end of its 200' leash, it's more in how you hold the payline and how much swing room you have. Now Lassoing a bollard 10 ft over your head with a 9" line while downstreaming past, that takes talent.

A fist inside a fist inside a fist is a waste. All that extra cordage for nothing and little added wt. I made a Turk's Head around a tennis ball sewn shut after adding sand but the tennis ball didn't last too long in marine environment.

One time, as much as we tried I and 5 others couldn't get the lead across 100' to the fuel truck onshore. Against a filled in wind, still pretty embarrassing. I swam it over to the truck.

That last part is what sets the men apart from the boys. You did mean 9" diameter, right? I've said it before; Henning, you're my hero.

 

[glpilot]

The knot I use most is the "airplane tie-down knot." I don't know what it's actually called. Loop the rope around itself twice, using the friction from the first loop to hold the second loop.

I vote for this one, it seems to fit what I use at the FBO

 

[Henning]

That last part is what sets the men apart from the boys. You did mean 9" diameter, right? I've said it before; Henning, you're my hero.

No, 9" circumferance . Once you go above 1 7/8" or 2" diameter, line is measured in circumferance. 9" is just under 3" diameter, big enough for my skinny rear. I was landing a 3 up of gravel barges down stream with only one engine (other broke) Deckhand missed his throw so I had to jump down and try to catch it with the back line cause I didn't have enough umph to stop it with the engine and swapping the tug to the other end of the tow in a quick river can be a dicy move, and with one engine down I didn't feel good about doing it.

 

[Henning]

Jacobs rope ladder and cat rope to clip safety harness to?

Bell Rope and Bolt Rope (in the sail).

 

[Skip Miller]

I vote for this one, it seems to fit what I use at the FBO

That is a taught line hitch. I was taught (pun not intended...) to use two of them on each tie-down line.

http://scouttroop.org/nj/bsa/23/tenderfoot_taught-line_hitch.htm

-Skip

 

[Bill]

That is a taught line hitch. I was taught (pun not intended...) to use two of them on each tie-down line.

http://scouttroop.org/nj/bsa/23/tenderfoot_taught-line_hitch.htm

-Skip

No, I think he was talking about the "just loop thru and pull the second loop thru using friction" airplane knot. I don't know how else to describe it, I suppose I will need to take a digital camera and take a picture of this one.

It is not the worlds most secure knot, yet I've never seen it come undone. I'd love to put in a tauntline hitch, or even two half hitches, but our FBO is so darned cheap that the tiedown lines are barely long enough for the two loop method, not enough for even two half hitches.

 

[Henning]

No, I think he was talking about the "just loop thru and pull the second loop thru using friction" airplane knot. I don't know how else to describe it, I suppose I will need to take a digital camera and take a picture of this one.

It is not the worlds most secure knot, yet I've never seen it come undone. I'd love to put in a tauntline hitch, or even two half hitches, but our FBO is so darned cheap that the tiedown lines are barely long enough for the two loop method, not enough for even two half hitches.

Actually, they are the same knot, in the drawing it just doesn't show you popping the wrap down in the pinch point to hold. It isn't meant to be a secure knot btw.

 

[Bill]

Actually, they are the same knot, in the drawing it just doesn't show you popping the wrap down in the pinch point to hold. It isn't meant to be a secure knot btw.

OK, makes sense. I just haven't been putting in the last hafl hitch.

 

[Henning]

OK, makes sense. I just haven't been putting in the last hafl hitch.

Yeah, you use that to secure the tail to keep it from getting popped out of comression, it has no value to the initial knots holding outside of that, however in big winds, it can pull up.