Kicking Myself over this - C182P

kgruber said:
:goofy:

Might as well just take $80,000 and toss it out over the ocean. The OP airplane is......at best......a parts airplane.
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Good to know you've personally inspected the airplane.

I'm sure the OP is thankful that you've made the decision for him.
 
kgruber said:
:goofy:

Might as well just take $80,000 and toss it out over the ocean. The OP airplane is......at best......a parts airplane.
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How would one lose $80k buying a plane that costs $27k?


What do you think the chances are of the OP buying the plane for $27k and being able to fly it for 300-500 hours with just the cost of fuel, annuals, and a cylinder every other year?

How does that come anywhere close to tossing $80k in the ocean?
 
JoseCuervo said:
How would one lose $80k buying a plane that costs $27k?


What do you think the chances are of the OP buying the plane for $27k and being able to fly it for 300-500 hours with just the cost of fuel, annuals, and a cylinder every other year?

How does that come anywhere close to tossing $80k in the ocean?
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It's like an above poster stated......You haven't bought many airplanes, have you?
 
kgruber said:
It's like an above poster stated......You haven't bought many airplanes, have you?
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Show your math.

How does one lose $80k when buying a $27k plane.


You likely haven't banked much money in your life, have you?
 
Maybe he gets 100 hours out of the engine, and it blows up. Now he can either rebuild the engine, or sell it for parts. He won't get $0 for it on resale either way.

Depending on condition, it could be a good deal. Worth looking at. No harm in that. At most you'll be out what... $500-600 for a pre-buy if you're serious? Worth it.
 
I bought a "deal" of an aircraft that's now half way decent. Would have been cheaper to buy decent in the first place. This looks like a project plane.
 
UngaWunga said:
But if the engine checks out, go for it.
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That's what I thought. "Engine in good condition & clean airframe--go for it!" But it's just amazing how much else there is in an airframe besides the engine that can require repairing. If it has been outside most of it's life, you're looking at something that is likely to require many repairs.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Where does anybody get the idea the OP wants an $80k 182 to fly around in?

What if the OP wants a $35k 182 to fly around on VFR trips with 2 adults and 2 kids and already owns an iPad and ForeFlight?

The OP could make a lot of great memories with this plane and save the other $40k for hotels, DisneyLand, and log rides.
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Have you bought a fixer-upper? I have. It's fixed up and I'm okay with it. But cheap-seeming planes aren't that cheap.
 
WhiskeyPapa said:
Have you bought a fixer-upper? I have. It's fixed up and I'm okay with it. But cheap-seeming planes aren't that cheap.
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Not sure what is a "fixer upper"? My paint looks good from 100 yards, not good from 5 feet.

My interior is a 5/10... or maybe a 4/10, or maybe a 6/10... Or, who knows? The pic I posted above shows a bit of the fabric on the dash peeling up. Maybe that is a 3/10?? Doesn't affect the plane in the slightest.

My engine, so far, runs great, the plane flies straight, the radio works great.

The whisky compass leaks.

I have posted my operating costs in another thread, and it was something like $85/hour for a 182.
 
JoseCuervo said:
That is pretty much nonsense.

Setting a budget for $27k acquisition price has nothing to do with what the Buyer can afford.

There is no connection between budget and wealth. I know way too many people who will foolishly set budgets beyond what their wealth will support.

The opposite, setting a low budget, should be viewed as good advice.


Again, a $27k 4-seat 182 is a helluva traveling machine for many.

There is no need to put new paint on it.

There is no need to fix a few broken interior plastics.

There is no need to upgrade avionics, panel, and radio.

The 1500 hour engine is a concern, but, so is a 1200 hour, and a 900 hour, and a 600 hour, and a 300 hour, and a 25 hour SMOH engine.

The OP might have good luck with the engine, and maybe replace a $950 cylinder every other year for the next 5 years.

For the right person, depending on goals, this could be a great plane for the next 300-500 hours. That's a lot of flying.
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This. I'm looking for an animal rescue aircraft. Animals don't care about aesthetics and neither do I.
 
Mopauly said:
This. I'm looking for an animal rescue aircraft. Animals don't care about aesthetics and neither do I.
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Thing is outside of a flight school or working airplane, in the vast majority of private airplanes most everything is in the same condition from my experience.

I havent seen many planes with ratted out paint and interior but with a super well cared for engine and sweet avionics.

Paint and interior are cheap, if you're too cheap to take care of that stuff..
 
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Cheap paint and interiors are cheap. Good paint and interiors are not.

On topic.... A 39 year old engine that's at TBO runout after sitting in a humid environment. The market value of that engine is less than zero, as the aircraft price reflects. For it to run acceptably well in the coming years is highly improbable. Been there, done that. With an 0-470S, too. But mine was half as old and had lived in a dry climate. The reman expense changed to value assessment of my airplane. 20 years later I still own it so the expense has been absorbed. That's a pirep, not an imaginary internet story. Good luck to whomever adopts this project. In a handful of years you should reflect back on this thread and let us know how it all worked out.
 
Isn't TBO 2000 on engine? Don't many of them go well past TBO?

Although I'm not a fan of the practice, the owner claims that he ran the engine when the plane wasn't going to be flown in awhile. He's one of "the old guys" who hangs out on Sunday at the airport.
 
noobJohn said:
Alrighty professional tire kickers.... What is wrong with this plane?

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail...+Piston/1964/Cessna/182G+Skylane/2065687.html

Ya, I know it's got the old skool ADF but the airport I'd likely base an aircraft at has a localizer approach that makes use of an NDB.

I'm still daydreaming about buying a plane "one of these days."
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No expert, but nothing really stands out as terrible. The panel is basically all-original, but it's still functional. They don't list a time when the engine overhaul was done, so it may be low-time, but also decades old. Only the logbooks know (hopefully). It doesn't mention the fuel bladders, either, which could very well be at their end-of-life. If there's no corrosion and you're okay with the old shotgun panel, no reason to pass it up. There may be some specifics to the O-470-L that the 182G's had, but I wouldn't be privy to that info.
 
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Jaybird180 said:
Isn't TBO 2000 on engine? Don't many of them go well past TBO?

Although I'm not a fan of the practice, the owner claims that he ran the engine when the plane wasn't going to be flown in awhile. He's one of "the old guys" who hangs out on Sunday at the airport.
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Continental 0-470 TBO is 1500 hours. I don't know many engines that make it to TBO without a history of cylinder repairs for valve guides/leaking valves. They're famous for developing blow-by as well.

Ground running is a good topic for 5 pages of comments that nobody can support one way or the other.
 
JoseCuervo said:
How would one lose $80k buying a plane that costs $27k?


What do you think the chances are of the OP buying the plane for $27k and being able to fly it for 300-500 hours with just the cost of fuel, annuals, and a cylinder every other year?

How does that come anywhere close to tossing $80k in the ocean?
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I know of a Seneca someone bought for 30K spent 90K on it sold if for 30K. Just because you might spend $$$ on it doesn't make it worth that much more.
 
If it was hangared and is corrosion free, it's an okay deal, not great, not bad.
 
Stewartb said:
Cheap paint and interiors are cheap. Good paint and interiors are not.
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Nonsense.

Take your interior to a good rod and custom shop in TJ, bring your own materials and you'll get a job far exceeding what's found at nearly any "aviation" upholstery shop for a fraction of the price.

Paint is just labor intensive and a attention to detail.
 
WhiskeyPapa said:
I bought a "deal" of an aircraft that's now half way decent. Would have been cheaper to buy decent in the first place. This looks like a project plane.
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Right, and if the airframe is corrosion free, with a first run engine it would be a fair project plane especially since you can apply the canard kit down the road to a P. Project planes are never the cheapest way to get into a plane (unless you're an A&P), but they are how you end up with the plane you want over time without incurring debt, and that has both direct and indirect financial value.
 
James331 said:
Nonsense.

Take your interior to a good rod and custom shop in TJ, bring your own materials and you'll get a job far exceeding what's found at nearly any "aviation" upholstery shop for a fraction of the price.

Paint is just labor intensive and a attention to detail.
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TJ nothing, I've got an upholstery shop down the street that does me a good deal on excellent boat work, and even provides the burn certificates. If you do it right and the stripping yourself, you should be able to do a nice paint, interior, and glass refurb for <$12k using top shelf materials.
 
James331 said:
Nonsense.

Take your interior to a good rod and custom shop in TJ, bring your own materials and you'll get a job far exceeding what's found at nearly any "aviation" upholstery shop for a fraction of the price.

Paint is just labor intensive and a attention to detail.[/QUOTE

How many have you done on your dime? Pictures?
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brien23 said:
I know of a Seneca someone bought for 30K spent 90K on it sold if for 30K. Just because you might spend $$$ on it doesn't make it worth that much more.
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Where did I ever advocate spending money on the OP plane beyond purchase and AVGas?
 
noobJohn said:
Alrighty professional tire kickers.... What is wrong with this plane?

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail...+Piston/1964/Cessna/182G+Skylane/2065687.html

Ya, I know it's got the old skool ADF but the airport I'd likely base an aircraft at has a localizer approach that makes use of an NDB.

I'm still daydreaming about buying a plane "one of these days."
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looks good, I'm just not a fan of the pre six pack "throw the gauges on the dash where they stick" approach. But I'm also a poor non profit that will have to take whatever they can get (if I can ever get).
 
Mopauly said:
looks good, I'm just not a fan of the pre six pack "throw the gauges on the dash where they stick" approach. But I'm also a poor non profit that will have to take whatever they can get (if I can ever get).
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Only takes a few thousand dollars to fix that, and some sheet metal. :)
 
denverpilot said:
Only takes a few thousand dollars to fix that, and some sheet metal. :)
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I was wondering about that - makes sense that you could simply reorganize the instruments - however based on the wiring in a few classic cars I have I suppose some of that would need to be redone too. Otherwise aircraft age doesn't bother me.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Not sure what is a "fixer upper"? My paint looks good from 100 yards, not good from 5 feet.

My interior is a 5/10... or maybe a 4/10, or maybe a 6/10... Or, who knows? The pic I posted above shows a bit of the fabric on the dash peeling up. Maybe that is a 3/10?? Doesn't affect the plane in the slightest.

My engine, so far, runs great, the plane flies straight, the radio works great.

The whisky compass leaks.

I have posted my operating costs in another thread, and it was something like $85/hour for a 182.
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It sounds like you won a crap shoot. Not everyone is so lucky. It's not just about cosmetics--a lot of things really need replacing in old planes….
 
Henning said:
they are how you end up with the plane you want over time without incurring debt, and that has both direct and indirect financial value.
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That is a rarely made point and quite important. If you can get your project into annual, and it doesn't fall out of the sky, you can take your time getting it into shape while you fly it. There truly is value in that.
 
Stewartb said:
James331 said:
Nonsense.

Take your interior to a good rod and custom shop in TJ, bring your own materials and you'll get a job far exceeding what's found at nearly any "aviation" upholstery shop for a fraction of the price.

Paint is just labor intensive and a attention to detail.
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How many have you done on your dime? Pictures?
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I've done a lot of upholstery work on other people's dime, it's really not that expensive until you get into really exotic materials and hides.
 
WhiskeyPapa said:
That is a rarely made point and quite important. If you can get your project into annual, and it doesn't fall out of the sky, you can take your time getting it into shape while you fly it. There truly is value in that.
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Right, the fact that you aren't paying rental saving up for the plane you want has a distinct value.
 
Henning said:
I've done a lot of upholstery work on other people's dime, it's really not that expensive until you get into really exotic materials and hides.
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Interior, not limited to upholstery. My last one had near 200 hours of labor by the time it was complete with the spill-over work including new panel and glass. That was the third interior reno in this plane. This time I got it right.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zo06DxOIJy8

I had it painted 15 years ago and it still looks great. That's the work of a great paint guy. That cost was about $15K 15 years ago. Quality isn't cheap.
 
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Stewartb said:
Interior, not limited to upholstery. My last one had near 200 hours of labor by the time it was complete with the spill-over work including new panel and glass. That was the third interior reno in this plane. This time I got it right. I had it painted 15 years ago and it still looks great. That's the work of a great paint guy. That cost was about $15K 15 years ago. Quality isn't cheap.
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Did you remove the interior and take it to a shop and then reinstall, or is that a time bill for dropping off a plane and picking it up?
 
Stewartb said:
Interior, not limited to upholstery. My last one had near 200 hours of labor by the time it was complete with the spill-over work including new panel and glass. That was the third interior reno in this plane. This time I got it right.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zo06DxOIJy8

I had it painted 15 years ago and it still looks great. That's the work of a great paint guy. That cost was about $15K 15 years ago. Quality isn't cheap.
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That was purdy. Thx for sharing
 
Why paint it or do anything with the upholstery? If there's no corrosion and the engine checks out, just fly it as is. No need to put money into it that's not needed. All that crap is just window dressing. Doesn't make the plane fly better.
 
UngaWunga said:
Why paint it or do anything with the upholstery? If there's no corrosion and the engine checks out, just fly it as is. No need to put money into it that's not needed. All that crap is just window dressing. Doesn't make the plane fly better.
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No but at some point it probably does make it smell better. :)
 
UngaWunga said:
Why paint it or do anything with the upholstery? If there's no corrosion and the engine checks out, just fly it as is. No need to put money into it that's not needed. All that crap is just window dressing. Doesn't make the plane fly better.
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Good windows are nice, and not expensive. I hate milky, crazed, windows.
 
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