Key West; or not?

J

JOhnH

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Right Seater
My wife is still stretching her wings so to speak. With about a hundred hours PIC under her belt she is planning to take us to Key West (from Daytona Beach), but she is nervous about all the restricted areas and flying around Class Bravo airspace, and the lack of VORs on the way and all that open water. She says that 14,000 ft balloon is the least of her worries. We do have a perfectly good Garmin 496 in our Cessna 172, but she prefers not to rely on that. Is this a tricky route to plan? Is there any special advice you can give to a fairly new pilot making this trip?
 
You're flying pure VFR, so you should enjoy an easy time of it. I flew all around the Keys in a 172, had a hoot.
 
Just stay on the Atlantic side (east & south side) of the islands and you are safe. The islands are one after the other. No chance of getting lost in VFR. Fly OVER the Bravo (8000' IIRC)

Landing anywhere in the Keys can be tricky though. There is only one runway, and the winds are almost always cross. Also, there is alot of what I would call turbulent rollercoaster wave activity as the winds come over the buildings. Also, you get a pretty good thump as you come in from the water over land. Always makes you sit up and pay attention.
 
I will have to look at the current sectionals but,,, when I lived down there all I did was to go offshore about a 1/2 mile out and stay at 1000asl and zipped right through. Don't look down though cause if the water is clear you will see more sharks then you can imagine on the trip. In fact you will probably never swim at the beach again.:yikes:

Enjoy.:yesnod:

Ben.
 
I know one of the big things for the ERAU commerical x/c's is to go to the Keys'. Seems to me, that most of them try to go underneath the Bravo, down by Southbeach and whatnot. Looks like 1,000 feet would work all they way along there. Personally, I'd probably try to go toward the western side of the state. Cut the corner by in Orlando, around the Bravo airspace, and head south. At that point, depending on aircraft and equipment onboard, I'd head toward Naples/Marco Island, climb up to roughly 10,000 MSL, and go over the water. I'd be more inclined to take a water landing than a swamp landing, if the worst happened.
 
Sounds like an awesome trip. Encourage her to do it an just to plan well. She can always consult with her CFI. Enjoy the trip.
 
Every time I've gone to Key West, I've been filed IFR. I don't think that's an option for her, so I'd just recommend flight following, over/under/around/through (if she get's permission, not likely) the Bravo, then follow the chain down visually. Monitor 121.5 on COM2 if available. Don't rely on the 496, but certainly take advantage of it to remain clear of any restricted areas. You really can't get lost as long as you keep the Keys in sight.
 
Do it. She won't learn if she doesn't stretch.
 
I haven't flown all the way to Key West .. but I did fly my Tiger down
to Miami a few years back. I went to Tamiami Airport on the SW corner
of town. I didn't need to go into the B space ... but I did talk to Miami
Approach and they were very helpful. Just look at a map and stay west
of Krome Ave and under 3000 ft and you'll be under the shelf and fine.
That takes you closer to a straight line to KW than out over the water
east of town. There's a LOT of VFR traffic west of town though so
keep your head on a swivel.

Krome Ave (SW 177th Ave) leads right into US 1 and you can
follow it all the way to KW.

As for the balloon .. are you talking about the one by Cape Canaveral
or KW?

RT
 
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RogerT said:
I haven't flown all the way to Key West .. but I did fly my Tiger down
to Miami a few years back. I went to Tamiami Airport on the SW corner
of town. I didn't need to go into the B space ... but I did talk to Miami
Approach and they were very helpful. Just look at a map and stay west
of Krome Ave and under 3000 ft and you'll be under the shelf and fine.
That takes you closer to a straight line to KW than out over the water
east of town. There's a LOT of VFR traffic west of town though so
keep your head on a swivel.

Krome Ave (SW 177th Ave) leads right into US 1 and you can
follow it all the way to KW.

As for the balloon .. are you talking about the one by Cape Canaveral
or KW?

RT
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I am pretty sure the balloon he mentioned is next to KW on Cudjoe Key. Used for detecting druggies. A 182 hit it last year killing all aboard the plane. Didn't hurt the cable holding blimp on bit. Boy, that must have been the longest 40 seconds of those peoples lives till they hi the water.:frown2:
 
Have you actually flown down the west side in a light aircraft?

KSCessnaDriver said:
I know one of the big things for the ERAU commerical x/c's is to go to the Keys'. Seems to me, that most of them try to go underneath the Bravo, down by Southbeach and whatnot. Looks like 1,000 feet would work all they way along there. Personally, I'd probably try to go toward the western side of the state. Cut the corner by in Orlando, around the Bravo airspace, and head south. At that point, depending on aircraft and equipment onboard, I'd head toward Naples/Marco Island, climb up to roughly 10,000 MSL, and go over the water. I'd be more inclined to take a water landing than a swamp landing, if the worst happened.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
Have you actually flown down the west side in a light aircraft?
Click to expand...

Personally, no. I know lots of people who have though, in 172's and various other planes. Distance is about the same. The only difference would be dealing with the Class B in Miami versus the Class B in Orlando.
 
We've flown to Key West and Marathon several times. You can either fly south towards Homestead and follow the Keys (if you stay south of the highway you won't hit the aerostat balloon in R-2916), or head towards Naples and make the water crossing direct to either EYW or MTH. If you do the latter, you can get radar following all the way at 7000 or higher, but bring your life preservers just in case. Note that going to MTH, it's less than 30 miles over water from coast-out by Lake Ingraham down to MTH. Approaching EYW from the north, you can talk to Key West Approach (frequency's on the Sectional) to stay out of any areas the Navy may be using.
 
We flew direct from Bartow to Marathon last year after S'n'F. Easy flight and MTH was in sight before we went "feet wet". Only 23.5 overwater.

Coming back, we flew up the keys and with Miami Appch blessing, across biscayne bay and just offshore of Miami beach. Lots of good pictures and video.
 
You now know one more that has done it, and wouldn't do it again. South of Naples is nothing but swamps and ocean. I don't like either, especially when they're off the beaten path. Just fly down the east coast and follow the chain.

KSCessnaDriver said:
Personally, no. I know lots of people who have though, in 172's and various other planes. Distance is about the same. The only difference would be dealing with the Class B in Miami versus the Class B in Orlando.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
You now know one more that has done it, and wouldn't do it again. South of Naples is nothing but swamps and ocean. I don't like either, especially when they're off the beaten path. Just fly down the east coast and follow the chain.
Click to expand...

Everyone's always told me that the water is probably a better option than the swamp. A controlled ditching into the Gulf is probably more survivable than a landing in the swap. Plus, I'll take my chances with sharks over any of the crap the crawls around in the swamp. I'll probably do it once, and decide I don't really like it. Only reason I have an interest in going that way is filing IFR on a Bravo airway. But that's neither here nor there.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Everyone's always told me that the water is probably a better option than the swamp. A controlled ditching into the Gulf is probably more survivable than a landing in the swap. Plus, I'll take my chances with sharks over any of the crap the crawls around in the swamp. I'll probably do it once, and decide I don't really like it. Only reason I have an interest in going that way is filing IFR on a Bravo airway. But that's neither here nor there.
Click to expand...

IMO the safest option would be to land along the shore rather than in the swamp or more than a hundred feet offshore. There are survivable landing sites in the Everglades but the real problem there (besides alligators) is that you might be very difficult to find and even if your location was known it could be difficult for rescue to gain access. And IME along the Gulf shore there are plenty of boats coming by now and then.

One other consideration is that a direct shot from Naples to Key West takes you through the ADIZ (and a warning area) requiring a flight plan and discrete code. Following the coastline or even just heading to Marathon first keeps you clear of all that.
 
Fly on the Atlantic side. Be aware that there can be a lot of traffic right over the beach (tow planes, etc) and birds at lower altitude. Try to stay within gliding of the beach.
 
JOhnH said:
She says that 14,000 ft balloon is the least of her worries.
Click to expand...
Remember:

The problem with the 14,000 foot balloon is not the balloon so much as the 14,000-foot cable that runs between it and the ground... you will probably not see it, and it is not entirely stationary along its length, because the balloon moves around up there.

That's why there's a big circle marked around the anchor point on the chart. I'd give that a wide berth.

As has been pointed out, it's quite possible to hit the cable if you go in there.
 
Ive flown to key west from daytona/sanford upwards of 30 times with students, in single and multiengine aircraft. From Daytona the easiest way is to follow victor 3 all the way, and when you get near the balloon you should be low altitude anyway so its not an issue as its north of v3. I suggest getting flight following, just remember that they Orlando will hand you off to West Palm, but West Palm WONT hand you off to Miami, theyll just terminate, some kind of ongoing feud between the two agencies. So have the Miami freq. handy for your altitude, and if you cant get them on one freq, try one for your sector but a different altitude. If you decide to go offshore line south bound, WPB will put you at 500' 2 miles offshore, so be sure you have your personal floatation devices handy, also when you hit North Perry area you might lose radio reception. I personal dont recommend the shoreline route past Miami unless you know what your doing. Much easier to take V3 to WPB then cut inland and stay under the Bravo shelves, bypassing that whole mess, as Miami Center is not easy to talk to, even as a professional pilot operating in the area on a daily basis (trust me I did VFR Aerial Photos in that area for 3 years). Just bypass that whole mess and stick to the highway southbound through the keys, beautiful scenery and not nearly as risky as heading over the ocean of through the swamp. Youll have a road to land on in an emergency the whole way down if you do it that way. Just watch out for the concentrated flight training activity over the glades just north west of Ft Lauderdale Exec. theres been a few midairs in that area over the past few years. But most of all have fun, and dont do anything that makes you uncomfortable. When in doubt about the weather, call fss.
 
My lord people this is Pilots of America not Folks who Find Reasons Not to Go of America. Lets give John H and his wife a bit of encourgement.

Joe has been there 30 times he says. He would appear to have the experince to give the right advice.

I certainly have not done this flight but it has to be doable for a 100 hr pilot and will be a great experience.
 
Anthony said:
Do it. She won't learn if she doesn't stretch.
Click to expand...


Adam,

I think we've become "Scardey cats of America" thus I quote my earlier post.

:D

This flight presents no more issues than any other flight through/around some controlled/restricted airspace. Do normal flight planning like she learned to do.

Remember, long flights are just little flights pieced together.
 
We will be going. Whether it is this weekend or not depends on the weather. I appreciate the advice and encouragement, but to those that are criticizing "scardey cats", I think you should know something about my wife. I gave up my ticket 30 years go due to medical issues. She took her first lesson (with my encouragement) at age 52 and got her license at age 53. In the past year she was nervous about flying through the Destin FL corridor, but she did it. Then she was nervous about flying into the hills of North Carolina, but she did that too so she could get additional "mountain" flying training. Next, she was scared to fly into the Atlanta Class Bravo airspace. Again, with a little encouragement she took that on and we had a blast. Now when she looks at the open water, the swamps and the congested air traffic around Miami she is getting a little nervous again. My God, if she wasn't nervous I would be afraid to fly with her. I am so proud of her I could bust. Her goal is to get her instrument rating this year. And next year we are flying from Daytona Beach to Catalina Island. I don't think "Folks afraid to fly across America" applies to her.
 
Like I said earlier. "Enjoy". no matter which route you take. :smile:

Tailwinds.
ben
 
JOhnH said:
I appreciate the advice and encouragement, but to those that are criticizing "scardey cats",
Click to expand...


I wasn't speaking about your wife, I was speaking about those who were spinning it in a perhaps more negative way than I would. It was also really just in jest, hencethe smailey face underneath the post. Not intended to be a derisive comment.

For the record, I am a pretty conservative pilot, more towards weather than anything. I've made a lot of "No goes" in my Go/No go decision making over the years. Living to fly another day IS all its cracked up to be. :)
 
JOhnH said:
And next year we are flying from Daytona Beach to Catalina Island. I don't think "Folks afraid to fly across America" applies to her.
Click to expand...

Awesome! :yes:

FWIW, I first flew to KEYW just shy of 250 hours. Nothing particularly difficult about it, the part that made me most nervous (coming down the Gulf side) was simply the point where I could no longer reach inhabited areas if the engine quit, and would have to decide: Alligators or Sharks? (FWIW, my thoughts on that are pretty much the same as Lance's: Land parallel to, and close to, the shore, in the water.)

It's a beautiful flight. Enjoy! And I can't wait to hear all about the cross-country trip too. :yes:

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