Keck Aviation

[Keck Aviation]

Hello everyone,

The following is from FAA's website.

“The final rule dictates that effective January 1, 2020, aircraft operating in airspace defined in 91.225 are required to have an Automatic Dependent Surveillance – Broadcast (ADS-B) system that includes a certified position source capable of meeting requirements defined in 91.227. These regulations set a minimum performance standard for both ADS-B Transmitter and the position sources integrated with the ADS-B equipment your aircraft.”
​

There are at least 60,000+ aircraft that will need a ADS-B System before 2020, therefor waiting until the last second could cost you time and stress.
Keck Aviation is located in Smithville, Ohio and will install the system for you in no time.
Fly on over here and lets get your ADS-B System installed.

 

[steingar]

Nice place, Smithville. One of these days soon I'll come get a quote for an ADS-B, and I'd like to stick a KLN94 in the panel of my aged Mooney. How long is the wait to get the installation done?

 

[Keck Aviation]

Nice place, Smithville. One of these days soon I'll come get a quote for an ADS-B, and I'd like to stick a KLN94 in the panel of my aged Mooney. How long is the wait to get the installation done?

We would love to see you out here, it sure is beautiful. We are currently booking 6 weeks in advance, and the installation usually takes about a week. For an exact quote, please call Doug Keck at (330)552-8889.

 

[Ted]

Nice place, Smithville. One of these days soon I'll come get a quote for an ADS-B, and I'd like to stick a KLN94 in the panel of my aged Mooney. How long is the wait to get the installation done?

One note on this plan, Michael, is that the KLN94 is not a WAAS GPS and thus cannot provide the WAAS position source to an ADS-B Out transponder. You can buy transponders (or a GDL88) that have built-in WAAS GPSs to have the required position source, but then you're spending extra money towards a higher functioning GPS that you can't use in-flight, rather than putting that money towards a WAAS IFR GPS. Because of that, most folks go for a WAAS GPS and then an ADS-B Out transponder or something like a GDL 88 that will then use that GPS. GNS 430W/530W, even a GNS 480 will work. Also the IFD series, etc.

That said, regarding the KLN 94 itself, I had one in the Aztec and I liked it. Flew about 1,000 hours with it and it never let me down. But it did limit me on what approaches I could fly since it was non-WAAS.

 

[steingar]

One note on this plan, Michael, is that the KLN94 is not a WAAS GPS and thus cannot provide the WAAS position source to an ADS-B Out transponder. You can buy transponders (or a GDL88) that have built-in WAAS GPSs to have the required position source, but then you're spending extra money towards a higher functioning GPS that you can't use in-flight, rather than putting that money towards a WAAS IFR GPS. Because of that, most folks go for a WAAS GPS and then an ADS-B Out transponder or something like a GDL 88 that will then use that GPS. GNS 430W/530W, even a GNS 480 will work. Also the IFD series, etc.

That said, regarding the KLN 94 itself, I had one in the Aztec and I liked it. Flew about 1,000 hours with it and it never let me down. But it did limit me on what approaches I could fly since it was non-WAAS.

Thank you for your input, Ted. I'd love a WAAS GPS, but really can't afford one. Moreover, the most likely culprit, the venerable Garmin 430, is no longer supported by Garmin. I managed to get a KLN94 with not one but two cards along with a card reader, which I thought was quite a find. I've been told those cards are hard to find items. I doubt the KLN94 is supported by Bendix King, I don't think anything is anymore. But its an old and venerable unit that's been around for awhile, so if it breaks hopefully I can get it fixed somewhere. I've seen them in action on friend's aircraft including approaches in actual, so I am quite comfortable with the choice. I know there are approaches it won't do, but the nut is only so big, and I can't get everything I want. Moreover, I'm not trying to make my Mooney an airliner, just trying to increase my dispatch ability somewhat (that, and position myself to learn some new skills).

I'm tending toward a Mode S transponder with its own WAAS source. Appareo makes one as does Lynx, from the looks of things they do about the same thing for the same price (both have an increased cost for the box to transmit a wifi signal for my tablet). I'll have my eyes out at Oshkosh to see if there is anything new and better, though to be honest I think the boxes I've specified are at a price point with which I'm comfortable. Mode S is a good solution, because it is also operant internationally, should I take the Lucky Strike to Canada, Mexico, the Bahamas, or if I get really adventurous, Europe (if I come up with the coin to put in extended fuel bladders). That, and the difference between installing a Mode S transponder and purchasing a WAAS IFR GPS plus installing a UAT unit winds up being quite a few AMU's.

As you know I'm in the shadow of a Class C, and two of my most frequent stops are in the Cincinnati and Cleveland Bravos. As a result I consider this a high priority item for me. Given your mission I'm certain its a big deal for you too.

 

[Ted]

As you know I'm in the shadow of a Class C, and two of my most frequent stops are in the Cincinnati and Cleveland Bravos. As a result I consider this a high priority item for me. Given your mission I'm certain its a big deal for you too.

Completely understand the reasons for your choice, I just wanted to make the point since it's one that's often forgotten. Also wanted to educate anyone else who viewed so they knew they couldn't just hook up a KLN 94 to a transponder without a WAAS position source and have it work.

Right now the 414 is /A, which I think you know, and not ADS-B complaint at all. For us, WAAS GPS is important given the missions we do. That said, so far we've been getting by on the various /A approaches that we have available to us. It just limits your options and makes for more planning needed.

I am generally expecting to do the panel work sometime in 2018-2019 unless some compelling reason comes up to do it sooner. Dealing with things like making sure the engines don't fall off the plane are a higher priority right now for us given a limited budget.

 

[steingar]

I am generally expecting to do the panel work sometime in 2018-2019 unless some compelling reason comes up to do it sooner. Dealing with things like making sure the engines don't fall off the plane are a higher priority right now for us given a limited budget.

I wouldn't be rushing myself but I do want that GPS in the panel, and I figure I might as well kill two birds with one stone. I had never thought to interconnect them. But I am glad you made the observation you did and we had the discussion, as I think it could be educational for the community moving forward.

The only reason I can see for doing it sooner is the predicted run on avionics shops. If it comes to pass it could limit your options considerably, and for you that translates to lives (albeit canine and feline). For me it isn't as big a deal, but I would like to get this GPS in the panel and perhaps start some IFR training myself. I see little value in having an ADS-B transponder in the aircraft early. ADS-B in can be had for hundreds. I do actually think the predicted run on avionics shops might come to pass. I think a lot of aircraft owners are sitting this out or waiting to see what happens. I see little chance of the FAA changing their 1/1/2020 deadline. The first time someone is frozen out of airspace its going to become a must have item. Also, after 2020 I think it's going to be very difficult to get top dollar out of an aircraft not equipped with ADS-B out.

Fortunately I think the Mode S solutions I've outlined will come in for about 5 AMUs. That isn't chicken feed, but compared to what things can cost on aircraft it isn't horrendous either.

 

[Ted]

The only reason I can see for doing it sooner is the predicted run on avionics shops. If it comes to pass it could limit your options considerably, and for you that translates to lives (albeit canine and feline).

Human as well, as we recently acquired a stretcher and are expanding our mission. You are correct - downtime is bad and results in lives lost. We have had to turn down a good number of missions due to our current issue with the engine beam.

But we also have to balance it against funding and other needs. The props were a big deal, the engine beam is a big deal, and if we need to overhaul an engine, that's also a big deal. If we manage to work a deal with an avionics shop that will donate or significantly discount installation efforts, then that would change the equation for sure.

 

[steingar]

Human as well, as we recently acquired a stretcher and are expanding our mission.

That's really cool and quite a public service.

But we also have to balance it against funding and other needs. The props were a big deal, the engine beam is a big deal, and if we need to overhaul an engine, that's also a big deal. If we manage to work a deal with an avionics shop that will donate or significantly discount installation efforts, then that would change the equation for sure.

Understand completely. Aren't twins just twice the fun?

My guess is given your mission and position in the aviation community you'd be less impacted by a 2020 run than yours truly. And even I'm not that stressed out about it, like i said I'm moving on it because I have ulterior motives. But I think a lot of pilots are going to wind up shut out of a lot of airspace on 1/2/2020. I bet money the FAA will cease to be kindler and gentler with all the airspace violations by folks with Mode C transponders who didn't get the memo.

 

[coloradobluesky]

I need a single box solution for OUT only for my airplane with a King KT 76 Aviat Husky. I dont have a WAAS GPS or antenna. Just want the minimum to be legal in ADSB airspace. What is that running in cost now?

 

[steingar]

I need a single box solution for OUT only for my airplane with a King KT 76 Aviat Husky. I dont have a WAAS GPS or antenna. Just want the minimum to be legal in ADSB airspace. What is that running in cost now?

According to what I've seen and my discussions with avionics folks I'm thinking about 5 AMUs.

 

[coloradobluesky]

There are going to be a LOT of these. That and ADSB in on the IPAD via bluetooth for a little more.

 

[Keck Aviation]

I need a single box solution for OUT only for my airplane with a King KT 76 Aviat Husky. I dont have a WAAS GPS or antenna. Just want the minimum to be legal in ADSB airspace. What is that running in cost now?

We can give you a quote. Give us a call and check out our website. (330)552-8889, Keckaviation.com