KAUO on game weekends

[mulligan]

I am sure there are many like this but it amazes me how Friday afternoons on game weekends, the flight school puts 11 planes into the patten at rush hour for game arrival traffic. You have 100 planes coming in at a non towered field and then 11 planes into the pattern for training. It is a cluster at best.

Then there are the guys who don't fly the pattern who really screw everything up. NXXXXX is 4 miles south of the field on the ils straight in to 36 on a clear day.

While it is good training for the students and good experience, the weekend travelers who are arriving really don't have the experience to handle all the traffic and it only takes one asshat to screw up a completely full airspace.

Oh well, it was still fun and I'll keep making the trip, just wish the school would let the game traffic arrive and depart and use the rest of the week to teach.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

God forbid a school actually does education. Can't let that get in the way of some dumb athletic event...

 

[Hank S]

Kids gotta learn, and Fridays are school days. Football is on Saturday.

Next time, how about advising the asshats on straight in that there are a dozen planes in the pattern, straight in is not smart?

Even for big games, the temporary tower only operates on Saturday. (Word to the wise . . . )

 

[luvflyin]

Donate tickets to the flight school to pass out to the students and instructors

 

[Cykoguy]

It is amazing/awesome how many people fly into games down south. In Iowa City and Ames there is very little game specific traffic.

 

[F01LA]

Kids gotta learn, and Fridays are school days. Football is on Saturday.

Next time, how about advising..

In that case, why not just have planes coming in ask 'ATITPPA'? Then they can be advised.

 

[wayne]

God forbid a school actually does education. Can't let that get in the way of some dumb athletic event...

Whether you like football or not, it's very popular.

I am sure there are many like this but it amazes me how Friday afternoons on game weekends, the flight school puts 11 planes into the patten at rush hour for game arrival traffic. You have 100 planes coming in at a non towered field and then 11 planes into the pattern for training. It is a cluster at best.
...

Oh well, it was still fun and I'll keep making the trip, just wish the school would let the game traffic arrive and depart and use the rest of the week to teach.

I'm surprised 100 planes came in for this game; versus Georgia Southern. Maybe because it was the first game of the season. I've flown in for a few games and it's been busy, but not bad.

I think it's good practice for the students. I learned at a Class D airspace airport and it was good to learn to deal with incoming planes on a long straight in; for us it was mainly jets and turboprops coming in on an IFR flight. We did a lot of training at nearby untowered airports, which was a great mix.

Too bad the incoming traffic didn't join the pattern, but with 11 planes in the pattern maybe they thought that was harder than just having someone extend their downwind. I'll often come in straight or from a base, if that works for my incoming directuon and the wind, but if there's traffic I'll change and join in.



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[bobmrg]

In that case, why not just have planes coming in ask 'ATITPPA'? Then they can be advised.

Please. Wash your mouth out with soap, then stand in the corner. AIM 4-1-9:

"g. Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions
1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."

I don't care how many instructors, professional pilots, or numbnuts you have heard using this expression, do not use it.

Bob

 

[mtuomi]

Please. Wash your mouth out with soap, then stand in the corner. AIM 4-1-9:

"g. Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions
1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."

I don't care how many instructors, professional pilots, or numbnuts you have heard using this expression, do not use it.

Bob

We had a guy who won the asshat of the year-award here a few days ago.
He called out 60 (six zero) miles out and said "Using runway 33, all traffic in the area, please advise." But didn't say what area - he was 60 miles out on 122.8, there's probably 20 fields with the same frequency in that range. We knew he was approaching PGA because it's the only one with 33 around here.
Then he joined left traffic (33 is RP) and busted through a very busy scenic tour "corridor". We told him 33 is right traffic, he said "it's not convenient for us".

 

[RyanB]

Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."

I don't care how many instructors, professional pilots, or numbnuts you have heard using this expression, do not use it.

I disagree Bob. If I'm just tuning onto a CTAF freq. I might've missed an important transmission that just took place. I'll announce my position and follow up by asking ATITPPA, or some flavor of that question. The AIM isn't a rule book, so I choose to modify certain things depending on the situations at hand. Some might disagree, but I believe the statement/question does have some validity during certain circumstances.

 

[Cykoguy]

I disagree Bob. If I'm just tuning onto a CTAF freq. I might've missed an important transmission that just took place. I'll announce my position and follow up by asking ATITPPA, or some flavor of that question. The AIM isn't a rule book, so I choose to modify certain things depending on the situations at hand. Some might disagree, but I believe the statement/question serves a purpose during certain circumstances.

I agree to extent. I think of it as more of a supplement to the standard initial location/intentions announcement. That being said in most cases it seems as though after you announce if anyone else is in the pattern they will announce again.

 

[mscard88]

I disagree Bob. If I'm just tuning onto a CTAF freq. I might've missed an important transmission that just took place. I'll announce my position and follow up by asking ATITPPA, or some flavor of that question. The AIM isn't a rule book, so I choose to modify certain things depending on the situations at hand. Some might disagree, but I believe the statement/question does have some validity during certain circumstances.

Yup. I'm with Ryanb here. So, you're calling me 'numbnuts' eh?

 

[mscard88]

I am sure there are many like this but it amazes me how Friday afternoons on game weekends, the flight school puts 11 planes into the patten at rush hour for game arrival traffic. You have 100 planes coming in at a non towered field and then 11 planes into the pattern for training. It is a cluster at best.

Oh the horror!

 

[F01LA]

I don't care how many instructors, professional pilots, or numbnuts you have heard using this expression, do not use it.

Bob

I should have added this:

Completely with you and I love your book. It was just my attempt at humor.. I couldn't stop myself when I saw the word "advise." Didn't mean to reopen the debate.

 

[F01LA]

I am sure there are many like this but it amazes me how Friday afternoons on game weekends, the flight school puts 11 planes into the patten at rush hour for game arrival traffic. You have 100 planes coming in at a non towered field and then 11 planes into the pattern for training. It is a cluster at best.

Having trained and spent most of my time at fields where 3 in the pattern was crowded, I'd really like to see 11+! Wow.

 

[RyanB]

I should have added this:

Completely with you and I love your book. It was just my attempt at humor.. I couldn't stop myself when I saw the word "advise." Didn't mean to reopen the debate.

No need to retract your words. This is an open discussion board.

 

[Dave Theisen]

I disagree Bob. If I'm just tuning onto a CTAF freq. I might've missed an important transmission that just took place. I'll announce my position and follow up by asking ATITPPA, or some flavor of that question. The AIM isn't a rule book, so I choose to modify certain things depending on the situations at hand. Some might disagree, but I believe the statement/question does have some validity during certain circumstances.

Look at it this way, there's for planes in the pattern and and you say ATITPPA, all four guys answer at once and you get no useful information. If you just announce what you are doing, chances are only the ones that may have a possible conflict have a chance to answer.

Also you should be monitoring the frequency on the way in, so nothing should be that critical.

 

[mscard88]

Also you should be monitoring the frequency on the way in, so nothing should be that critical.

I monitor pretty far out, maybe 20-30 miles, and listen. If I hear nothing as I get closer, say inside 10 mikes, I'm asking. Sorry.

 

[RyanB]

Look at it this way, there's for planes in the pattern and and you say ATITPPA, all four guys answer at once and you get no useful information. If you just announce what you are doing, chances are only the ones that may have a possible conflict have a chance to answer.

Also you should be monitoring the frequency on the way in, so nothing should be that critical.

When I'm entering an uncontrolled pattern, everything is critical. I never just chime in with ATITPPA, but I'll follow up with it periodically after my initial position report.

I monitor pretty far out, maybe 20-30 miles, and listen. If I hear nothing as I get closer, say inside 10 mikes, I'm asking. Sorry.

I concur!

 

[jordane93]

Please. Wash your mouth out with soap, then stand in the corner. AIM 4-1-9:

"g. Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions
1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."

I don't care how many instructors, professional pilots, or numbnuts you have heard using this expression, do not use it.

Bob

This. One of the dumbest radio calls is ATITPPA. I never answer when planes make the call. If you're monitoring the frequency, you'll hear that I'm making position reports.

 

[RyanB]

I never answer when planes make the call. If you're monitoring the frequency, you'll hear that I'm making position reports.

Some guys don't always monitor how they should, so that should be taken into consideration. You could be setting yourself up for a potential traffic confliction by not responding to their call. Being sure that everybody is on the same page in a non-towered pattern environment is crucial.

 

[mscard88]

This. One of the dumbest radio calls is ATITPPA. I never answer when planes make the call. If you're monitoring the frequency, you'll hear that I'm making position reports.

What's the big deal? Someone asking for advisories and you disagree with it so you ignore the request? What's the harm in answering?

 

[F01LA]

No need to retract your words. This is an open discussion board.

I didn't retract anything, just tried to clarify that my first post was in jest. It is an open discussion board, but an emphatic word from the AIM that it "should not be used under any condition" ought to go a long ways towards settling this.

 

[Hank S]

Some guys don't always monitor how they should, so that should be taken into consideration. You could be setting yourself up for a potential traffic confliction by not responding to their call. Being sure that everybody is on the same page in a non-towered pattern is crucial.

Which plane in the pattern is expected to answer? Because radios are obviously limited to one speaker at a time. If I'm not busy and nobody else answers, I'll probably make a deprecating response. Numbnuts!

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

All you ATITPPA types are the ones who forget there are likely to be planes without a radio operating as well.

 

[jordane93]

Some guys don't always monitor how they should, so that should be taken into consideration. You could be setting yourself up for a potential traffic confliction by not responding to their call. Being sure that everybody is on the same page in a non-towered pattern is crucial.

What's the big deal? Someone asking for advisories and you disagree with it so you ignore the request? What's the harm in answering?

I'm not going answer a radio call for something they should have been doing in the first place. What about a guy without a radio? If no one answers, that person that makes the ATOTPPA call may assume there's no one in the pattern. It's a pretty useless call as there could be 50 NORDO planes in the pattern who obviously can't respond. Listen up on the frequency, use your eyes and don't hit anyone.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Whether you like football or not, it's very popular.

It doesn't matter if i'ts popular or not. Auburn is there for a primary reason, education. The sooner that the NFL (and other pro sports) realize that they should just take anyone who can play at the level, without forcing them to "go to college" and enter the charade that is SEC academics, the better.

 

[Hank S]

Yup. I'm with Ryanb here. So, you're calling me 'numbnuts' eh?

If you make an ATTITIPA call, you are announcing to the world that you are a numbnut. No one has to call you that . . .

Is it really that hard to just listen to the radio? I manage to do that on Com2 even on IFR flights leading to VFR arrivals at fields with no approaches, so it is obviously not terribly difficult.

 

[jordane93]

All you ATITPPA types are the ones who forget there are likely to be planes without a radio operating as well.

Beat me to it.

 

[mscard88]

If you make an ATTITIPA call, you are announcing to the world that you are a numbnut. No one has to call you that . . .

Is it really that hard to just listen to the radio? I manage to do that on Com2 even on IFR flights leading to VFR arrivals at fields with no approaches, so it is obviously not terribly difficult.

If I hear nothing on the freq I will inquire. That makes me a numbnut, so be it. Back in the day when just about every FBO would answer the radio they'd often inform an inbound of known traffic.

 

[mscard88]

All you ATITPPA types are the ones who forget there are likely to be planes without a radio operating as well.

Nope. I have a lot of experience at uncontrolled fields w/ those, and always taught students to be on alert for them.

 

[NoHeat]

It is amazing/awesome how many people fly into games down south. In Iowa City and Ames there is very little game specific traffic.

Lafayette Indiana is even sleepier on a game day, for Purdue. A few years ago I flew in 3 hours before the game, and I was the first to arrive. The FBO gave me a ride straight to the stadium.

If your favorite team plays there, I can recommend flying in.

 

[RyanB]

If you make an ATTITIPA call, you are announcing to the world that you are a numbnut. No one has to call you that . . .

Is it really that hard to just listen to the radio? I manage to do that on Com2 even on IFR flights leading to VFR arrivals at fields with no approaches, so it is obviously not terribly difficult.

When I first started flying, I flew a 152 that didn't have a COM2, so being able to monitor CTAF 20 miles out wasn't an option. Just tuning over to the freq. might've not allowed me to hear a transmission that was just made. I've flown patterns with pilots who didn't use their radio, so I'm fully aware of that fact. I never said the use of this phrase is appropriate at all times, nor do I use it all the time, but there are times when it's acceptable. Making sure that everyone is on the same page (if possible) is a part of safe flying.

 

[mscard88]

When I first started flying, I flew a 152 that didn't have a COM2, so being able to monitor CTAF 20 miles out wasn't an option. Just tuning over to the freq. might've not allowed me to hear a transmission that was just made. I've flown patterns with pilots who didn't use their radio, so I'm fully aware of that fact. I never said the use of this phrase is appropriate at all times, nor do I use it all the time, but there are times when it's acceptable. Making sure that everyone is on the same page (if possible) is a part of safe flying.

Yup. That's all we're saying sports fan, er, make that numbnuts fans.

 

[SkyDog58]

I'm confused. Is numbnuts the name of the team mascot at the school in question or is that another school? I know of one school's team that is named after some kind of nut.

 

[Hank S]

If I hear nothing on the freq I will inquire. That makes me a numbnut, so be it. Back in the day when just about every FBO would answer the radio they'd often inform an inbound of known traffic.

Back in the day, there was frequent traffic at the FBOs, and their desks were manned. If I wanted a response from them, my CFI told me to call KXXX Radio and ask for airport advisory. It worked where I was based then (if anyone was there), but pretty much nowhere else. Calling KXXX traffic is talking to folks in the air, but there is no definition of who should answer, and no way for two or more to answer at the same time.

It's just wasted breath, wasted frequency time, and has the potential to cause confusion with whoever is in the pattern; and if the traffic in the pattern has no radio or just doesn't answer, the caller becomes complacent and expects an empty pattern, which may not be the case.

Are you beginning to see why the AIM recommends so strongly against ATITPPA?

 

[mscard88]

I'm confused. Is numbnuts the name of the team mascot at the school in question or is that another school? I know of one school's team that is named after some kind of nut.

Well, I'm a Bama fan, or Bammer as THAT school likes to call us, but THAT school does have a cool mascot in the War Eagle, which is a real eagle. Ya gotta like that.

 

[mscard88]

Back in the day, there was frequent traffic at the FBOs, and their desks were manned. If I wanted a response from them, my CFI told me to call KXXX Radio and ask for airport advisory. It worked where I was based then (if anyone was there), but pretty much nowhere else. Calling KXXX traffic is talking to folks in the air, but there is no definition of who should answer, and no way for two or more to answer at the same time.

It's just wasted breath, wasted frequency time, and has the potential to cause confusion with whoever is in the pattern; and if the traffic in the pattern has no radio or just doesn't answer, the caller becomes complacent and expects an empty pattern, which may not be the case.

Are you beginning to see why the AIM recommends so strongly against ATITPPA?

Look, you do it your way, I'll do it mine. IOW we're just going to have to agree to disagree, or whatever that saying is. Strongly is, well, a little strong, plus it is recommendations, not regulatory. And to be honest, I don't even know if that was mentioned in the AIM 'back in the day'.

 

[Hank S]

I'm confused. Is numbnuts the name of the team mascot at the school in question or is that another school? I know of one school's team that is named after some kind of nut.

I'm a fan of the Ootawah Owls high school team, not to be confused with the nearby Etowah High School whatever-they-ares.

 

[RyanB]

I'm a fan of the Ootawah Owls high school team, not to be confused with the nearby Etowah High School whatever-they-ares.

I'm not far from there actually. Are you alumni of Ooltewah?