Just wow

[MetalCloud]

The link in post #48 has the LiveATC recording, which includes the part where the Arrow first comes on frequency. Neither that nor the Cirrus pilot's video include him asking the Arrow pilot such a question, that I could hear.

Siiggghhh. That just seems like common sense.

If I were in that situation I’d have told Alex to back off. With no idea who he is or what he does or what he knows, and if I feel like I have it under control, then yeah. He can fukc right off.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Did I miss a part where he said something like, “hey man, I’m a CFI with a thousand hours in an Arrow... I’m gonna help you out, ok?”

Did the Cirrus factory not fill you in on this???
Dude, that is a big miss on their part. You are probably dropping the ball and don't even know it... Sad.

 

[Pilawt]

Did the Cirrus factory not fill you in on this???
Dude, that is a big miss on their part. You are probably dropping the ball and don't even know it... Sad.

If you fly a Cirrus do you have to get your cape repacked along with the chute?

 

[Stingray Don]

Did the Cirrus factory not fill you in on this???
Dude, that is a big miss on their part. You are probably dropping the ball and don't even know it... Sad.

View attachment 75783

That right there is awesome!

 

[MetalCloud]

Did the Cirrus factory not fill you in on this???
Dude, that is a big miss on their part. You are probably dropping the ball and don't even know it... Sad.

View attachment 75783

That’s it. I’m going rogue and turning in my Zima.

 

[Matthew]

There’s no need to fear, Cirrus Guy is here!

 

[Palmpilot]

Siiggghhh. That just seems like common sense.

If I were in that situation I’d have told Alex to back off. With no idea who he is or what he does or what he knows, and if I feel like I have it under control, then yeah. He can fukc right off.

By including the words, "if you want" in his request for takeoff clearance, the Cirrus pilot kind of asks Tower for permission to "work him," but he was asking the wrong person, IMO.

 

[MetalCloud]

By including the words, "if you want" in his request for takeoff clearance, the Cirrus pilot kind of asks Tower for permission to "work him," but he was asking the wrong person, IMO.

Agreed

 

[SkyDog58]

By including the words, "if you want" in his request for takeoff clearance, the Cirrus pilot kind of asks Tower for permission to "work him," but he was asking the wrong person, IMO.

But did tower clear him to do it or did they just clear him for takeoff?

 

[Matthew]

But did tower clear him to do it or did they just clear him for takeoff?

Tower is only responsible for traffic separation on the rwy, aren't they? Tower might have known what the guy was up to and could have not cleared him for takeoff, but I think they have plausible deniability on that one. They might have also told the guy to clear out of their airspace, but once he's in it, can they do that?

 

[Timbeck2]

Tower is responsible for all traffic in their airspace. We can tell someone to do something but we can't reach out and fly their plane when they don't. That tower controller made a judgement call to let it happen. Hindsight being 20/20 he probably wishes he'd done things differently but in an emergency or what seems like an emergency you go into help mode and since our hero here is all the help that was offered, he let it happen. I've known a lot of controllers in my career and not all of them are controllers. Some are suggesters, some are watchers, some are "hope they don't hit" guys and some like to go downstairs and eat their lunch after they roll the scope out and see a large recovery coming in. Not all controllers are created equal. There have been a lot of days when I sit down in my supervisor chair, look out in front of me and see a group of weak or newly rated controllers and think to myself..."I may really have to earn my money today" because as a supervisor, you are the last line of defense in pulling someone out of the fire.

 

[Palmpilot]

But did tower clear him to do it or did they just clear him for takeoff?

It's ambiguous. Tower didn't explicitly clear him to do it, but in the first two minutes of the video in Post #1, he is an active participant in helping the Cirrus locate the Arrow, and about a minute-and-a-half in, he says, "Zero foxtrot tango, I've got a Cirrus just departed, uh, he's gonna try to intercept, uh, hook up with you right now.

 

[friskygeek]

Trying to be like Maverick helping Cougar come in for a landing... yea.

 

[danhagan]

Does super man get paid for saving millions of people from impending doom?
NO. It is a thankless role but someone has to fill it.

This Chuted Crusader knows the work is its own reward.

I'm just glad that we both reside in Texas, and I'm COUNTING on you to save the day if I ever have an issue ... I was a little nervous that you're in Dallas and I'm in El Paso, but I'm sure that's what the cape is for

If you fly a Cirrus do you have to get your cape repacked along with the chute?

Cirrus refuses to repack capes at the same time as chutes, as the capes are needed much more often

 

[Matthew]

I'm just glad that we both reside in Texas, and I'm COUNTING on you to save the day if I ever have an issue ... I was a little nervous that you're in Dallas and I'm in El Paso, but I'm sure that's what the cape is for

Maybe skip Flight Following and stick with Cirrus Following.

 

[MuseChaser]

"Bugsmasher 2468B w/ Echo, 4500' enroute to KBFF, request Cirrus following...."

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Maybe skip Flight Following and stick with Cirrus Following.

That is funny man!

 

[Pilawt]

If things really get bad, throw me a rope and pull your chute. We'll ride it down in tandem.

 

[EdFred]

Speaking of Cirrus following this is what I heard over the radio this weekend.

So I was heading to 6Y9 this weekend, and with a BKN -> OVC layer at my point of departure I filed. Climbed on top, and it was clear with at least 50 miles of visibility. Around Cadillac it broke up and was SKC from there to 6Y9 save 1 row of clouds about 40 miles from 6Y9. So, I'm flying left seat, with a 121 captain right seat, and when we are near Traverse City we hear a call on the radio.

"Minneapolis Center this is Cirrus [forget the full call sign, but it ended in Lima, so I'll go with 38L]."

"38Lima, Minneapolis Center go ahead"

"38Lima is requesting RADAR following."

C and I look at each other, and ask each other "RADAR following? Never heard it called that"

[pause and hesitant/confused response from ATC]
"38L what is your request again?"

"38L would like RADAR following to Mike Golf Kilo November"

I look at C and say, "he wants RADAR following to somewhere in Mexico or the Caribbean? I don't think that's going to work from here."

ATC asks him to repeat.

"38L would like RADAR following to Mike Golf November, we are partial panel. I lost the MFD but still have the number 2 NAV, but we are partial panel, and need RADAR following vectors to Mike Golf November"

I look at C and say, "Did he really just say he's partial panel when it's clear and a million?"
We both give each other the WTF look because they still have the number 2 NAV, which should be at least a 430.
C has a bunch of Cirrus time, and is like, is this guy really declaring a near emergency because his moving map just went down when it's VFR?

I have my thumb hovering over the PTT and say in my best Indian Call Center voice say "Why don't you just pull the chute?"
C explodes with laughter. "Say it, do it, say it say it say it. I'd say it, but I can't keep a straight face!"

I didn't. I was so close, but I resisted.

Still, has this what it's come to? "I lost my moving map, I can't figure out where I'm going? I'm partial panel." even when it's effing clear and you can see the entire shoreline from 75+ out. Come on people, you aren't helping the stereotype.

MGN is IMPOSSIBLE to miss. It's in a bay on Lake Michigan and unmistakable for any another airport in the area. And you can find it from a 100 miles away.

 

[PaulS]

Speaking of Cirrus following this is what I heard over the radio this weekend.

So I was heading to 6Y9 this weekend, and with a BKN -> OVC layer at my point of departure I filed. Climbed on top, and it was clear with at least 50 miles of visibility. Around Cadillac it broke up and was SKC from there to 6Y9 save 1 row of clouds about 40 miles from 6Y9. So, I'm flying left seat, with a 121 captain right seat, and when we are near Traverse City we hear a call on the radio.

"Minneapolis Center this is Cirrus [forget the full call sign, but it ended in Lima, so I'll go with 38L]."

"38Lima, Minneapolis Center go ahead"

"38Lima is requesting RADAR following."

C and I look at each other, and ask each other "RADAR following? Never heard it called that"

[pause and hesitant/confused response from ATC]
"38L what is your request again?"

"38L would like RADAR following to Mike Golf Kilo November"

I look at C and say, "he wants RADAR following to somewhere in Mexico or the Caribbean? I don't think that's going to work from here."

ATC asks him to repeat.

"38L would like RADAR following to Mike Golf November, we are partial panel. I lost the MFD but still have the number 2 NAV, but we are partial panel, and need RADAR following vectors to Mike Golf November"

I look at C and say, "Did he really just say he's partial panel when it's clear and a million?"
We both give each other the WTF look because they still have the number 2 NAV, which should be at least a 430.
C has a bunch of Cirrus time, and is like, is this guy really declaring a near emergency because his moving map just went down when it's VFR?

I have my thumb hovering over the PTT and say in my best Indian Call Center voice say "Why don't you just pull the chute?"
C explodes with laughter. "Say it, do it, say it say it say it. I'd say it, but I can't keep a straight face!"


I didn't. I was so close, but I resisted.

Still, has this what it's come to? "I lost my moving map, I can't figure out where I'm going? I'm partial panel." even when it's effing clear and you can see the entire shoreline from 75+ out. Come on people, you aren't helping the stereotype.

MGN is IMPOSSIBLE to miss. It's in a bay on Lake Michigan and unmistakable for any another airport in the area. And you can find it from a 100 miles away.

Oh, there would have been big butthurt over that comment. I think it's funny, but probably not appropriate in the situation and definitely a butthurt generator.

 

[Stingray Don]

Speaking of Cirrus following this is what I heard over the radio this weekend.

So I was heading to 6Y9 this weekend, and with a BKN -> OVC layer at my point of departure I filed. Climbed on top, and it was clear with at least 50 miles of visibility. Around Cadillac it broke up and was SKC from there to 6Y9 save 1 row of clouds about 40 miles from 6Y9. So, I'm flying left seat, with a 121 captain right seat, and when we are near Traverse City we hear a call on the radio.

"Minneapolis Center this is Cirrus [forget the full call sign, but it ended in Lima, so I'll go with 38L]."

"38Lima, Minneapolis Center go ahead"

"38Lima is requesting RADAR following."

C and I look at each other, and ask each other "RADAR following? Never heard it called that"

[pause and hesitant/confused response from ATC]
"38L what is your request again?"

"38L would like RADAR following to Mike Golf Kilo November"

I look at C and say, "he wants RADAR following to somewhere in Mexico or the Caribbean? I don't think that's going to work from here."

ATC asks him to repeat.

"38L would like RADAR following to Mike Golf November, we are partial panel. I lost the MFD but still have the number 2 NAV, but we are partial panel, and need RADAR following vectors to Mike Golf November"

I look at C and say, "Did he really just say he's partial panel when it's clear and a million?"
We both give each other the WTF look because they still have the number 2 NAV, which should be at least a 430.
C has a bunch of Cirrus time, and is like, is this guy really declaring a near emergency because his moving map just went down when it's VFR?

I have my thumb hovering over the PTT and say in my best Indian Call Center voice say "Why don't you just pull the chute?"
C explodes with laughter. "Say it, do it, say it say it say it. I'd say it, but I can't keep a straight face!"

I didn't. I was so close, but I resisted.

Still, has this what it's come to? "I lost my moving map, I can't figure out where I'm going? I'm partial panel." even when it's effing clear and you can see the entire shoreline from 75+ out. Come on people, you aren't helping the stereotype.

MGN is IMPOSSIBLE to miss. It's in a bay on Lake Michigan and unmistakable for any another airport in the area. And you can find it from a 100 miles away.

Sooooo. Did you declare an emergency for him and then intercept?

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Speaking of Cirrus following this is what I heard over the radio this weekend.

So I was heading to 6Y9 this weekend, and with a BKN -> OVC layer at my point of departure I filed. Climbed on top, and it was clear with at least 50 miles of visibility. Around Cadillac it broke up and was SKC from there to 6Y9 save 1 row of clouds about 40 miles from 6Y9. So, I'm flying left seat, with a 121 captain right seat, and when we are near Traverse City we hear a call on the radio.

"Minneapolis Center this is Cirrus [forget the full call sign, but it ended in Lima, so I'll go with 38L]."

"38Lima, Minneapolis Center go ahead"

"38Lima is requesting RADAR following."

C and I look at each other, and ask each other "RADAR following? Never heard it called that"

[pause and hesitant/confused response from ATC]
"38L what is your request again?"

"38L would like RADAR following to Mike Golf Kilo November"

I look at C and say, "he wants RADAR following to somewhere in Mexico or the Caribbean? I don't think that's going to work from here."

ATC asks him to repeat.

"38L would like RADAR following to Mike Golf November, we are partial panel. I lost the MFD but still have the number 2 NAV, but we are partial panel, and need RADAR following vectors to Mike Golf November"

I look at C and say, "Did he really just say he's partial panel when it's clear and a million?"
We both give each other the WTF look because they still have the number 2 NAV, which should be at least a 430.
C has a bunch of Cirrus time, and is like, is this guy really declaring a near emergency because his moving map just went down when it's VFR?

I have my thumb hovering over the PTT and say in my best Indian Call Center voice say "Why don't you just pull the chute?"
C explodes with laughter. "Say it, do it, say it say it say it. I'd say it, but I can't keep a straight face!"

I didn't. I was so close, but I resisted.

Still, has this what it's come to? "I lost my moving map, I can't figure out where I'm going? I'm partial panel." even when it's effing clear and you can see the entire shoreline from 75+ out. Come on people, you aren't helping the stereotype.

MGN is IMPOSSIBLE to miss. It's in a bay on Lake Michigan and unmistakable for any another airport in the area. And you can find it from a 100 miles away.

Opportunities like that don’t don’t come up often and you squandered it away.

 

[EdFred]

Opportunities like that don’t don’t come up often and you squandered it away.

I know. I know.

 

[ateamer]

I'm pretty sure someone called the FSDO right after this landing when the Piper authorized FBO tried to move the Arrow from Atlantic to the West side of the field for inspection and repair. As if the Arrow pilot didn't have enough headaches. Seems the FSDO was called was called along with News12. Sad thing is, this could have been a non-event. I fly out of KBDR. If you're out there Wolf, thanks but no thanks.

What’s the problem with the FBO moving the plane to another place in the field? It wasn’t an accident, which would mean that the NTSB hadn’t directed anyone to keep the scene intact.

 

[EdFred]

Oh, there would have been big butthurt over that comment. I think it's funny, but probably not appropriate in the situation and definitely a butthurt generator.

The dude also sounded a little flustered. Got the identifier wrong on the first go, radar following vs radar services or flight following. I figured I wouldn't be helping the situation much (at all really). But I was sooooooo tempted.

 

[Timbeck2]

You should have done it. It isn't like anyone can trace your transmission.

If I have to listen to "meow" at least once a day over guard, then that would have been trivial.

 

[Palmpilot]

"Minneapolis Center, if you want, we can go intercept the distress aircraft and work him over."

 

[PaulS]

You should have done it. It isn't like anyone can trace your transmission.

If I have to listen to "meow" at least once a day over guard, then that would have been trivial.

I wondered that, in the, ahem, Cirrus, with the perspective plus, the call sign appears right below the nav frequency box. I guess it's just because we can't remember it otherwise.

 

[EdFred]

I wondered that, in the, ahem, Cirrus, with the perspective plus, the call sign appears right below the nav frequency box. I guess it's just because we can't remember it otherwise.

If you fly different airplanes routinely it helps. When I was flying my Cherokee like crazy and jumped in another plane I stated a lot of my calls as "221...dammit"

Then had to look for the tail number in the aircraft to get it right.

 

[PaulS]

If you fly different airplanes routinely it helps. When I was flying my Cherokee like crazy and jumped in another plane I stated a lot of my calls as "221...dammit"

Then had to look for the tail number in the aircraft to get it right.

Agreed, but it's on a label above the mag switch too. I still mess up once in a while.

 

[Half Fast]

I have my thumb hovering over the PTT and say in my best Indian Call Center voice say "Why don't you just pull the chute?"
C explodes with laughter. "Say it, do it, say it say it say it. I'd say it, but I can't keep a straight face!"

I didn't. I was so close, but I resisted.

Hysterical. I wonder whether he would have done it.

I might have keyed up and, also in the best Indian accent I could conjur,...

"Cirrus 38L from Cirrus Central. Your MFD subscription has expired. You may renew online, or if you're in a hurry I can take your credit card number now. Ready to copy."​

 

[apr911]

We both give each other the WTF look because they still have the number 2 NAV, which should be at least a 430.
C has a bunch of Cirrus time, and is like, is this guy really declaring a near emergency because his moving map just went down when it's VFR?

I dont see where in the story the Cirrus actually declared an emergency, he simply asked for assistance from ATC in ensuring he got to the destination and explained his situation/why he was asking.

On the one hand he already lost one screen for unknown reasons so it would seem prudent to get assistance in case screen 2 were to go out, especially with how intertwined the systems are. On the other hand with how intertwined the systems are, I dont know that ATC would be able to reach him and provide assistance if the other display went down.

Getting ATC assistance or at least monitoring of the situation when there is an issue developing before there is an actual emergency would also seem to lighten the load in the event of the situation worsens as they wont have to explain everything to ATC and ATC can ask questions without interfering with the pilot working the issue.

We also dont know what was happening in the cockpit of the Cirrus but its possible he was troubleshooting the problem while trying to aviate and navigate so he was asking ATC to help him a bit with the navigation portion.

Of course this is all conjecture based on the story you told which I assume may not be a perfectly accurate retelling (through no fault of yours)

 

[EdFred]

I didn't say he declared.

 

[JoeInCT]

What’s the problem with the FBO moving the plane to another place in the field? It wasn’t an accident, which would mean that the NTSB hadn’t directed anyone to keep the scene intact.

I have no idea. Just know the FISDO was called, perhaps by a certain crusading pilot with bad judgment?

 

[SkyDog58]

What’s the problem with the FBO moving the plane to another place in the field? It wasn’t an accident, which would mean that the NTSB hadn’t directed anyone to keep the scene intact.

No problem whatsoever. NTSB shouldn’t be involved in this. The FSDO would be if ATC reported the incident to them but even then, they wouldn’t typically demand the plane not be moved or repaired. They would however typically request a copy of the relevant corrective action maintenance entry as well as interview the pilot. That’s what typically happens when there is a non-accident incident or occurrence.

This event is different in that the “heroics” of the Cirrus pilot might get a bit of heavy scrutiny as it should. But that will be a separate issue and investigation than the engine power issue.

 

[Ghery]

If you fly different airplanes routinely it helps. When I was flying my Cherokee like crazy and jumped in another plane I stated a lot of my calls as "221...dammit"

Then had to look for the tail number in the aircraft to get it right.

Fortunately we have a placard on the instrument panel of each plane in the club with its tail number. I still get it wrong now and then, but the tower at KOLM seems to be used to it.

 

[Stevel]

Has anyone heard if there was any follow-up on this?

 

[bluegoodbrownbad]

yeah this guy is the one a few years back providing some garbage content about the purpose of overhead breaks. his continual and gratuitous showcasing of chase formation position in simpleton piston single flight where his presence is a distraction and hindrance to safety of flight, is absolutely cringe inducing from my perspective as a mil IP.

from the way he talks on the radio he sounds like he did some navy or AF primary trainer tour or something before getting out (the description of one of his videos mentions the C2, so my guess is navy) and has appropriated all manners of mil style flying into his little cirrus shtick. he had no business telling that non participating civilian aircraft how and where to fly his airplane. this isnt UPT and he isnt an IP flying chase on a student solo with an emergency. then that buffoonish stunt low approach to almost flaring height, completely unnecessary showboating. i am legitimately surprised tower tolerated that self-invited circus show. there aint no way in hell im letting some former washed up turbo weenie pilot trying to relive his glory days, join up on my wing in civi flying. id drop a NMAC on this clown faster than he can count to 709.

that guy needs a soap party right yesterday.

ETA: comments disabled on the video. something tells me folks have already got the jump on me telling this guy to KIO with the mil flying appropriation stunt in piston single flight instruction.

prior mil pilots think alike...cause you took the words right out of my mouth. The arrow pilot also displayed poor judgement for allowing. Also, I'm extremely ****ed off at Alex cause I have now wasted 30 minutes of my life and have 2 more accounts on forums I don't need because of his asshattery video. I'm glad I know who he is, cause if I ever need Cirrus training, I will never use him.

But don't blame the Navy on the assclown. Probably some wannabe Eagle drive.

 

[bluegoodbrownbad]

The most fundamental tenet in wingman role in an EP is: don't be a hindrance. The broken aircraft generally takes the lead while wing supports. That means you STFU until you're needed by the EP jet. The only time someone would be steering an EP resolution from the chase position is if the broken aircraft is being flown by a completely unqualified student (hence my comments about the "UPT style talking to" that clown was giving the non-participating Arrow). But that's in the context of a mil environment where everybody understands and has been exposed to the expectations and standards that define this kind of flying. Appropriating that behavior into a foreign environment for the sake of a self-employed CFI business shtick is not only insufferable, but replete with real pitfalls. Bringing that whole mess into a non-participating civilian aircraft no less? That's where it goes beyond clownish and into the realm of the FAA, especially if the Arrow had got distracted and bent something.

So I don't even want to give this clown that amount of credit, but from even an EP resolution perspective on this side of the fence, he broke the cardinal rule and would be getting a roasting at the squadron after he got down. The guy legitimately became a hindrance to the Arrow, and almost made a manageable situation into an accident by proferring unwarranted inputs and self-appointed flight lead over the EP aircraft, on a non-participating basis no less. Again, I am completely astounded by the amount of rope tower allowed to be unwound on this circus show.



Tell your homeboy that he's not the only one in GA with prior mil experience. His judgement is severely lacking. Being a good stick doesn't at all mean you're a good pilot. We have a few decent sticks with poor inflight judgement. Usually as a function of inexperience, but sometimes we have senior pilots with a reputation because they can't seem to make command judgement decisions without causing drama at the destination and always getting a talking to. Some happen to be cavalier in their flying, which only lasts so long before something gets bent. Your buddy looks like he has something to get out of his system or needs closure from not flying in the military anymore (if he ever did...hell who knows, we just found out about a prior enlisted flying Mirages on a merc basis in Lybia with zero mil flight training, so anything is possible these days).

Tell your friend to knock it off with the UPT appropriation shtick. Remind him he's no longer in the military and the FAA doesn't appreciate impromptu UPT syllabus implementation and mil student pilot procedures being used in the middle of non-participating class D airspace. Also remind him he's not at the B-course, and thus flying chase on your initial solo PPL student is a complete d-bag @ss-shining for YT clicks. And finally, I would ask he invest in some aerobatic aircraft and get whatever hangups he has about not wearing a G-suit to work out of his system, for the sake of his clients. Whatever it is he needs to work through to let go of the military training pantomime he's passing off as "experience" to overcharge his customers. The internet is a pretty wide lens and we're all watching. It's embarrassing best case, he's gonna hurt a client worst case.

As to the white knighting on your part, remember.... the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This guy is likely to dismiss anything coming from the internet. He needs a friend, hopefully someone with military experience, to tell him he's being an @ssclown. Friends don't let friends be @ssclowns. Don't enable @ssclowns.

dang man--you keeping stealing my words.

 

[hindsight2020]

prior mil pilots think alike...cause you took the words right out of my mouth. The arrow pilot also displayed poor judgement for allowing. Also, I'm extremely ****ed off at Alex cause I have now wasted 30 minutes of my life and have 2 more accounts on forums I don't need because of his asshattery video. I'm glad I know who he is, cause if I ever need Cirrus training, I will never use him.

Welcome to POA!

Yeah that dude was outed a bit ago. Turns out he's not even prior mil aviator, he merely was doing contract work for desk peddlers in the DOD. Really sad stuff, the projection of it all. Hope the guy gets help. At least stay out of people's wings for sure.