Just Quit Training

Since we all know there's only one side to a story, it's nice to know we're consistent in basing our opinions of this one on a single post from a disgruntled student.
 
Out of the reasons to quit flight training, 'not allowed to use i-pad' is sure a new one.

There is probably more to the story.

And then there is the off chance that someone managed to create a multi-page thread by starting it with a controversial premise.
 
Hmm - I wonder what TV show or movie had a character with that name in '81 to get that streak started?


edit: I think this is called "thread creep"
 
It is in fact sad that we in GA don't do a better job of selling. And by that I don't mean convincing people to do things they don't really want to do. I mean selling as in clearly indicating the features and benefits of a product so that the buyer can make an informed decision. There are many reasons for this, and I don't claim to have an answer. I do know there are many reasons for flying and therefore many different levels of interest in the various components. One part of the problem (probably waving a flag here) is inexperienced CFIs with inadequate training. If you learn in a "puppy mill" the bare basics of required licenses and are just building time to get on with a 121 operation, you probably don't see a reason for learning basics, and you tell a student, "you will never use this but you need it for your practical." That wouldn't inspire me either.
 
Do you find that story credible? Is it just as likely that the student was familiar with Foreflight and repeatedly questioned why he was required to work the problems by hand?

ebetancourt said:
If you learn in a "puppy mill" the bare basics of required licenses and are just building time to get on with a 121 operation, you probably don't see a reason for learning basics, and you tell a student, "you will never use this but you need it for your practical." That wouldn't inspire me either.
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I listened to a photography teacher a long time ago rip into a student of hers when he said something about using auto-focus and auto-exposure - "That's a crutch!!"

There are some things that you need to learn how to do by yourself - even if you're going to let your equipment do it for you later.
 
Matthew said:
I listened to a photography teacher a long time ago rip into a student of hers when he said something about using auto-focus and auto-exposure - "That's a crutch!!"

QUOTE]

Agreed.... Using auto focus / auto exposure will lead to taking some bad pics till you get the feel of of how the whole process works. In flying, playing with stuff before one masters the whole concept will lead to DEATH. :yesnod::yesnod::eek:..IMHO..
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Legiox said:
I will buy me a Ipad for aviation flying somewhere down the line. I really feel uncomfortable when using a fold out map during cross-country (still in training). I feel like I'm spending to much time refolding map and looking down at it then having my eyes scanning the horizon. Maybe it will come with practice. But i really want one of those ipad leg boards to put on one of my legs. One less thing i have to have cramped up next to me.
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I had to respond to this post...if you are uncomfortable dealing with sectionals and charts now (they are not technically 'maps'), which is probably a function of your student status, think about what you will face down the line. Only time and experience will make the multi-tasking easier, and you WILL need to know how to do this. Ask Instrument rated pilots about multi-tasking and dealing with re-routes and paper charts looking for airways, waypoints and route segments, in the sh*t, single pilot IFR, bouncing along, and you will understand why this skill is pretty important.

I dunno, for me, messing around with a sectional, testing myself as to how accurately I can hit waypoints and timing enroute flying VFR with a sectional, a timer and a plotter, is a really satisfying part of this stuff. YMMV
 
We are witnessing the clash of generations, and priorities folks. Amplified by changing technology, attentions spans, and dwindling gratification for attention to detail.
 
wabower said:
Do you find that story credible? Is it just as likely that the student was familiar with Foreflight and repeatedly questioned why he was required to work the problems by hand?
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Actually I was not addressing the OP. I could have been clearer, but I do believe this is a general problem. Students don't learn a lot of things that are basic knowledge because they aren't part of the PTS and do learn stuff just because it is.
 
DutchessFlier said:
I had to respond to this post...if you are uncomfortable dealing with sectionals and charts now (they are not technically 'maps'), which is probably a function of your student status, think about what you will face down the line. Only time and experience will make the multi-tasking easier, and you WILL need to know how to do this. Ask Instrument rated pilots about multi-tasking and dealing with re-routes and paper charts looking for airways, waypoints and route segments, in the sh*t, single pilot IFR, bouncing along, and you will understand why this skill is pretty important.

I dunno, for me, messing around with a sectional, testing myself as to how accurately I can hit waypoints and timing enroute flying VFR with a sectional, a timer and a plotter, is a really satisfying part of this stuff. YMMV
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Great point!

After I got my PPL I started immediately building XC time. About the first 10 or 15 hours I was just cruising around, dropping in at airports I had never been to. Then one day I was heading home and had left my VOR's on and tuned to my home VOR, and I noticed the needles swung to one side. I turned the OBS's to the VOR and tracked it back home. I compared one against the other and just generally practiced using the VOR's.

It was then that it occurred to me that I would be much better served by this XC time building, by doing something besides following Foreflight. I started paying more attention to the chart I keep at hand. I started seeing how accurately I could fly a Magnetic Heading and how well I could track a VOR.

Flying around for fun is fine, but when one is trying to build time and move toward further ratings, it makes sense to work on skills beyond following a little blue airplane following a line on an IPad. UNDERSTANDING all the elements that Foreflight is calculating for you is really good learning too!
 
Reminds me of a story.

Back in my 121 days we were flying a trip. Got all loaded up and one of the yaw damper channels was out. The book says we need two so after I reset the breaker and it's still not engaging we turn around and taxi back to the gate and unload. Wait for a mechanic and out comes this yahoo I'd just dealt with a week or two ago. Last time it was an issue with our APU and his first question was, 'what's an APU?' Great, so now we have the same guy.

Well he bangs around in the avionics bay for awhile and when he's done not only does the yaw damper channel still not work but now the FMS and flight director are out. And no flight director means no auto-pilot. So now the company wants us to ferry the thing back home to have our maintenance fix it all.

So we get the ferry paper work, and leave the flight attendants (only required crew allowed) and head off. Wouldn't you know the weather is at minimums at our destination. Again...great.

So we're flying around on raw data. VOR's and airways and charts and stuff. Of course all that works fine but there was one point in the flight I overlooked the obvious. There was a turn in the airway. Wanting to be super pilot I was going to lead the turn so I figure about 3 miles would be good. I'm watching the DME from the VORTAC tic down, 7...6....5.....5....6..

Huh??? Oh cripes! I forgot about that slant range thing. We were at FL350 and not only didn't I lead the turn, I missed the turn! The dang VOR was now behind us.

Wasn't a big deal, we just turned and got on course, but I was a little embarrassed by my 'oversight'. Thought I'd share...
 
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DutchessFlier said:
Ask Instrument rated pilots about multi-tasking and dealing with re-routes and paper charts looking for airways, waypoints and route segments, in the sh*t, single pilot IFR, bouncing along, and you will understand why this skill is pretty important.

I dunno, for me, messing around with a sectional, testing myself as to how accurately I can hit waypoints and timing enroute flying VFR with a sectional, a timer and a plotter, is a really satisfying part of this stuff. YMMV
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Dealing with paper charts really sucks and its so much easier with an ipad. Mostly that they are cumbersome, and at night you have to flip on the dome light or use a flashlight to read them. Having an ipad strapped to your knee really helps big time. I fly a no autopilot IFR C152 and having the ipad really helps to keep things rolling smoothly.

I don't disagree with the OP that paper charts are obsolete BUT I still carry paper approach plates and charts in the flight bag. Along with the rest of you i'll assume he has underlying fundamental issues and/or we are not getting the full story. He wasn't exactly coddled after his initial post but it didn't seem like a post by someone who was having trouble and needed help understanding the material or just some encouragement. he was kind of a dick after that too, ignoring several positive and encouraging posts by members here and instead choosing to focus on the negative ones
 
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Captain said:
No no. Not 'US'. I mean the pilots he said he talked to who said, 'you'll never use that after the check ride". Those are the pilots who talked him out of it. Nobody should tell a student what they're learning is wasted.

That said, the OP is a bit of a puss for listening to them and not others. I'd guess he's the type that hears what they want to hear and if he wants to hear 'it's useless' then he'll bend every comment to read 'it's useless'.
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Oh, that's simple, because no matter how you slice it, the human race is 80% stupid.
 
Matthewc66 said:
In reading some of the responses it looks like people want an additional response from me as it was my thread.

After everyones input I will walk away from aviation.

The information I get is the same everywhere. People say you have to learn this way but then they tell you, you will never use it again.

Being this is a dangerous hobby and I don't feel safe after all this time in the plane I will move on.

Thanks for the information..

Matt
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If it came down to an internet forum to help steer the course of his life, then flying sure wasn't in him. Not sure why he started, but there wasn't much love for it. He probably thought flying and being a pilot would be cool before he found out it actually required some work and would take some time. It was probably just a weekend replacement for the time he'd have spent on his Playstation. Do kids still have those? He'll have more time for his Ipad now, though. Better that he quit.
 
RoscoeT said:
Better that he quit.
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We'll never know for sure, but we can't let ourselves get trapped into beating ourselves up because he bailed. It happens every day and the story hasn't changed during the many years I've had a front-row seat.

This game is fraught with frustrations and futility. A higher-than-normal (compared to other leisure activities) level of effort, dedication and persevereance is required to overcome these hurdles, and some people are simply unprepared or incapable of working the puzzle. Better for everybody that they find another method of fulfillment.
 
wabower said:
Do you find that story credible? Is it just as likely that the student was familiar with Foreflight and repeatedly questioned why he was required to work the problems by hand?
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The problem I have with the OP are the jumps from "all these pilots" to "him" as a singular. Either way, his question of "Why do I have to learn this?" was answered. If he's too lazy to accept that he has to do this for his own knowledge, then quitting is probably his better option because the other result will not go as well.
 
Anthony said:
We are witnessing the clash of generations, and priorities folks. Amplified by changing technology, attentions spans, and dwindling gratification for attention to detail.
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Yeah ... uh, what? Wait, I thought that was just a nasty result of getting older... :D
 
Anthony said:
We are witnessing the clash of generations, and priorities folks. Amplified by changing technology, attentions spans, and dwindling gratification for attention to detail.
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Thing is, his view is in the popular set of opinions; many people are looking at the headlines going "With all this technology, why are we still letting pilots kill us?" In another decade or so the question will be "Do we still want to allow these non autonomous aircraft flying outside of exhibitons?"
 
I don't blame the OP for quitting at all. If I was engaging in an expensive hobby that I found "boring" I would be gone without asking anyone their opinion. There are lots of other hobbies out there.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't blame the OP for quitting at all. If I was engaging in an expensive hobby that I found "boring" I would be gone without asking anyone their opinion. There are lots of other hobbies out there.
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Good point. Maybe our problem here is we have a mental disconnect at the idea that flying is boring. In all our minds filling out a nav log seems a very small annoyance to suffer through to get the benefit of being in the air.

I can't imagine anybody telling this guy it's 'pointless' or he'll never do it after the check ride. Even if they did...so freaking what? I fill this (stupid pointless never to be used again) log out and I get to fly? In a plane? Okay sign me up!! If that's not how you see it then maybe this just isn't your deal.

Either way, from my seat him leaving is a good thing. Maybe get a flight sim on his iPad and kill two birds with one stone...
 
I don't recall finding any aspect of pilot training boring. I never did learn to use a circular slide rule, though.

Personally, I suspect that economics aside, only a tiny fraction of the population is truly acceptable for aviation. One has to have the scholastic ability to deal with all the material that has to be learned, the drive to learn it, and the ability to subsume oneself to authority. A failure in any of these things can result in flaming death. It isn't about doing stuff to get along. It is about doing stuff to stay alive.
 
steingar said:
I don't recall finding any aspect of pilot training boring.
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But you are not the OP. Surely you can think of hobbies which some of your friends engage in that you would find 'boring' or at least something you wouldn't pay good money to do. I know a lot of people like to watch spectator sports. It's a huge business. I think it's like watching the grass grow.
 
Everskyward said:
But you are not the OP. Surely you can think of hobbies which some of your friends engage in that you would find 'boring' or at least something you wouldn't pay good money to do. I know a lot of people like to watch spectator sports. It's a huge business. I think it's like watching the grass grow.
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If one finds aspects of pilot training boring, one might not be cut out to be a pilot...
 
steingar said:
If one finds aspects of pilot training boring, one might not be cut out to be a pilot...
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Um, yeah, that's why I think it's a good idea that he quit. However, others are jumping on him for being lazy, unmotivated, a product of "his generation", etc. which I think is a little over the top. He doesn't want to be a pilot, so what?
 
Everskyward said:
Um, yeah, that's why I think it's a good idea that he quit. However, others are jumping on him for being lazy, unmotivated, a product of "his generation", etc. which I think is a little over the top. He doesn't want to be a pilot, so what?
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I won't disagree, nor will I generalize. The younger generation has it's share of bright, motivated individuals, and it's share of slackers. I suspect those who promulgate such generalizations are completely out of touch with the younger generation, and are voicing preconceptions based on little fact.

That's not to say that there haven't been cultural shifts over time, especially with regard to changing technology. But such is the case in every generation.
 
steingar said:
But such is the case in every generation.
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Yeah. The older generation always think the younger one is screwed up. But from what I can remember I don't think my generation was any more hard-working or virtuous than the current one and I'm sure I'm at least a generation older than the OP.
 
I think on Internet boards we've also "self-selected" as more than mildly addicted to aviation just to spend the time to be here.

Walking into say, a dog show message board and saying you hate training dogs, probably would have garnered similar responses.

Especially on the disconnected-from-reality hide-behind-our-keyboards Internet.
 
So in post #77 he says he's quitting and yet we have gone on for more then another 100 posts? For what purpose! He's probably not even reading this board anymore. Can this topic die now. Those who enjoy it; like/love it. Those who don't won't. Let's move on!
 
I do not consider a discussion of what is necessary for one to become a pilot to be devoid of worth.
 
saracelica said:
So in post #77 he says he's quitting and yet we have gone on for more then another 100 posts? For what purpose! He's probably not even reading this board anymore. Can this topic die now. Those who enjoy it; like/love it. Those who don't won't. Let's move on!
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So, you're new here then? Welcome to POA...

:)
 
RoscoeT said:
Half of pilots are below average, but we all think we're above average. ;)
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Not me, I know I am the world's suckiest pilot. You should hear the crap I say to Ground Controllers or NorCal Approach Controllers. One time they asked if I wanted the east or west route and I said "there are mountains on my left" in response. Clouds were low, turbulence was high, mountains were NOT an option for me.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Not me, I know I am the world's suckiest pilot. You should hear the crap I say to Ground Controllers or NorCal Approach Controllers.
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That is not true at all Kimberly. I was impressed by how natural you sounded on the radio. :) Also there's nothing wrong with using plain English to explain what you want if you can't come up with what you think is proper phraseology.
 
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