Just experienced an emergency...

Jeanie said:
Having experienced a seriously stuck valve lately in the 152 I'd guess that too since there was vibration involved. It'll be interesting to see what it turns out to be. And it's interesting that it's just been replaced.

Good on you Alon for flying the plane and landing safely.
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That's my guess too, having experienced it in a Lyc O-540 pulling 250HP.
Either a stuck valve, or a magneto that slipped it's timing.
 
Armageddon Aviator said:
This particular aircraft ( 4X-CHC ) ...
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Just curious, how do you read your identifier when making radio calls?

Do you say "Four Xray Charlie Hotel Charlie"? Do you abbreviate to just "Charlie Hotel Charlie" after an initial callup if ATC shortens it, like we do in the U.S.?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Just curious, how do you read your identifier when making radio calls?

Do you say "Four Xray Charlie Hotel Charlie"? Do you abbreviate to just "Charlie Hotel Charlie" after an initial callup if ATC shortens it, like we do in the U.S.?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
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We never use the 4X ( The Israeli National call sign ) except when we are entering the Israeli airspace ( coming back from abroad )...
 
Richard said:
Next time you are on the ramp take a look at various prop blades. Can you determine the stress riser? IOW, how much is too much?
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Rule of thumb taught by some textbooks: If your thumbnail catches on it, it's time to dress it out. That might be a bit extreme, I think, but I have seen some props that I would refuse to fly behind. They look like someone's been mixing concrete with them.

A small nick will take a long time, usually, to develop a crack. A big nick, not so long. And where that nick is located is a factor, too. Best policy is to keep that blade smooth. Although it's a job for a certified mechanic, I've seen field repairs where the blade would have been better left alone, the fix was so poor. The propeller is one of the most highly-loaded parts of an airplane and any irregularities will reduce its tolerance to stress and fatigue.


Dan
 
Jeanie said:
What do you listen for? Same sounds on each prop... the tone changing evenly along the length of the blade?
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Without trying to sound coy, yes.

I listen for tonal quality along the chord and pitch along the length of each blade. I also have used that wooden stick to probe inside the Cessna exhaust stack. Examine what falls out, if anything. And to listen for 'loose-ness'. A higher pitch may indicate a loose something where one would expect a dull thud. Frankly, I don't really know how good this is with respect to the Cessna exhaust AD. But I am establishing a reference for trend spotting.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I was told to shut down the engine and stand the airplane vertical in attempt to get the prop stopped. If successful then its just standard engine out procedures .... after the stall recorvery:hairraise:
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At 200 feet?
 
Richard said:
I also have used that wooden stick to probe inside the Cessna exhaust stack. Examine what falls out, if anything. And to listen for 'loose-ness'. A higher pitch may indicate a loose something where one would expect a dull thud. Frankly, I don't really know how good this is with respect to the Cessna exhaust AD. But I am establishing a reference for trend spotting.
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It would be useless to detect the small cracks that let monoxide into the heat muff. Carbon monoxide is dangerous at such low concentrations that we use low pressure in the muffler and soapy water to find them.

Dan
 
Richard said:
I also have used that wooden stick to probe inside the Cessna exhaust stack. Examine what falls out, if anything. And to listen for 'loose-ness'. A higher pitch may indicate a loose something where one would expect a dull thud. Frankly, I don't really know how good this is with respect to the Cessna exhaust AD. But I am establishing a reference for trend spotting.
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Probably useless since the AD is for leaks in the muff around the muffler that's quite a long way from the tailpipe.

I still give mine a twang, listening for something "different" but it means a whole lot more to me to look at the overall exhaust system condition with the lower cowl off every year.

Any "stuff" falling out of the tailpipe on a 182 is usually pieces of a disintegrating spark arrestor. On the 182, the thing can (and does) fall all the way out without causing an exhaust system blockage. On many other types there are AD's to check them because they're too big to fit out the exhaust pipe and they will cause a blockage if they break off internally.

You can see the arrestor on a typical 182 with a flashlight poked up the exhaust pipe, easy. If it's not already gone.
 
denverpilot said:
Probably useless since the AD is for leaks in the muff around the muffler that's quite a long way from the tailpipe.

I still give mine a twang, listening for something "different" but it means a whole lot more to me to look at the overall exhaust system condition with the lower cowl off every year.

Any "stuff" falling out of the tailpipe on a 182 is usually pieces of a disintegrating spark arrestor. On the 182, the thing can (and does) fall all the way out without causing an exhaust system blockage. On many other types there are AD's to check them because they're too big to fit out the exhaust pipe and they will cause a blockage if they break off internally.

You can see the arrestor on a typical 182 with a flashlight poked up the exhaust pipe, easy. If it's not already gone.
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Not a spark arrestor. It's a baffle, and Cessna's baffles do that. They burn out quick. You can get unbaffled models for some of them, and that's what we do. The baffles make almost no difference, anyway.

A spark arrestor is a rather fine screen.

Dan
 
Ah okay, someone taught me bad terminology. I'll demand they buy the first round next "Safety Meeting". ;)
 
Just a quick update...

I spoke with the mechanics yesterday, they told me they discovered a stuck valve and a stuck piston in the dismantled engine...

I was glad to learn that it was not my imagination...

I should be able to obtain the official conclusions from the mechanical inspection sometime next week.

I was also interviewed by a CAA Inspector...
He wanted to know if I had checked the bird before the incident , if I had performed a W&B calculation...how much fuel was on board, etc...

He also checked my medical certificate, logbook and license as well as the date of my last BFR.

He was particularly interested to learn what I felt during the emergency from a psychological point of view...Did I have a sense of impending doom ? Was I petrified by fear ?, etc....

The inspector said they are trying to gather data on the performance of pilots during emergencies.
They are puzzled by the fact that some rookies ( like me) manage OK while some very experienced pilots make mistakes leading to a tragic outcome ( 4 people were killed during a similar emergency in Haifa a few months ago...)

Personally, I believe that it has a lot to do with the way you prepare mentally for such a possibility.

I always rehearse in my mind the emergency procedures before every take off.
For example: I know that I will never attempt to turn back to the airport before reaching a safe altitude to perform that maneuver....

I try to read all the safety related articles in AOPA Pilot and Flying, I often watch the ASF special reports and occasionally take their internet courses.

Obviously, luck was also on my side that day.

At 6:40 am, the weather was rather cool with about 25C...a couple of hours later, the temperature would have reached 34C with a humidity of about 75%.
That alone would have seriously compromised the aircraft performance.

The Cessna was light - with 2 people in it and a fuel load of only 23 Gallons.

Would I've been able to reach that altitude ( with around 150ft/min of vertical speed ) if the aircraft had carried full fuel and 3 people ?
I don't know.

What would have been the outcome of an off-airport landing if the malfunction had occurred elsewhere ?

So definitely, luck also plays an important role.
 
Art VanDelay said:
A couple more events like this and you become a BIG fan of multi engine aircraft !
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Yikes ! :yikes:

A friend once asked me (seriously) why don't they have ejection seats in Cessnas ?...

I guess it has to do with the price....ejection seats cost like 3 Cessna aircraft...
 
denverpilot said:
Probably useless since the AD is for leaks in the muff around the muffler that's quite a long way from the tailpipe.

I still give mine a twang, listening for something "different" but it means a whole lot more to me to look at the overall exhaust system condition with the lower cowl off every year.

Any "stuff" falling out of the tailpipe on a 182 is usually pieces of a disintegrating spark arrestor. On the 182, the thing can (and does) fall all the way out without causing an exhaust system blockage. On many other types there are AD's to check them because they're too big to fit out the exhaust pipe and they will cause a blockage if they break off internally.

You can see the arrestor on a typical 182 with a flashlight poked up the exhaust pipe, easy. If it's not already gone.
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Yes and no, if you read the Cessna data a baffle free muffler is OK but not one with baffles that have fallen out as the bits of the baffle left behind form hot spots and can lead to other problems down the road.


Now as to props a teacher of mine saw a twinky loose a prop tip on short final and by the time he landed the engine was simply laying in the cowling having broken the mount. It happens quick, even at low power.
 
Speaking of ejection seats I once had (a doctor) ask me if I had ever had to "bail out" I explained that no one except for aerobats flies around with a parachute and he was completely blown away by this
 
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