Job hypothetical question

Tristar

Tristar

Pattern Altitude
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Tristar
So I'm probably going to be here a while longer but lets say there's a place I wanted to move to such as closer to family. Getting jobs in aviation is more about who you know than what you know. How do you approach a company you're interested in for a pilot job? I just see it as thats just not the way things are done and theres no way it's going to happen. I know I may also be low on experience. I have about 350 SIC king air time and around 40 SIC mustang time. Probably by the time I look I'll have some PIC time. Just looking for some ideas how to approach someone.
 
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One time I got a job by sending a letter to all the chief Pilots of turbine powered airplanes in my area. There are companies that sell that information, formatted any way you wish. I got address labels.
 
I've noticed that with many jobs, you can typically have one of two things:

1) A job
2) The location you want

It depends on your industry, and if you want to live in a particular area you probably want to figure out which industries are in reasonable demand there. You made the career decision to be a pilot. Maybe you'll luck out and get a flying job closer to your family, but I wouldn't count on it.

Since you have a job right now where you seem to be enjoying yourself and they're actually giving you time in the KA and Mustang (I hope you're logging PIC when flying the 91 legs), I would try to stay there and build as much useful time as possible, especially turbine PIC. When you can get your ATP, then you can make the choice to potentially get to a job in the airlines, which might allow you to move home easier and commute.

In engineering it's not much different, especially since my field of expertise happens to be aviation. I'd never be able to live in New York City doing that. Williamsport wasn't bad at a three hour drive, and theoretically I could have always tried to work for Pratt & Whitney. However I hate New York and if I never go back, it wouldn't bother me. So when the job came up here in Ohio, we packed our bags and headed west. I like this job and we're happy here, but if the well dried up then we'd pack our bags again and move someplace else.

Even my grandparents had it the same, and grandfather was a PhD head of research and development for multiple companies. Wisconsin, Virginia, New York (upstate)...
 
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Next time you visit your family, try to arrange informal "information" interviews with the hiring managers.

Meet them, let them know you, seek their advice for what they would like to see "down the road" in a few months/years when you move back.

Then, keep in touch as you progress, when you are qualified, you might get a call, or, more likely, you might get a referral or a lead on another job.

Lets call it networking.
 
Seems like I remember that you knew people at the FBO in your hometown. Maybe they have some contacts. Probably the biggest problem is that PC is not very big and also probably a desirable place to live. It's easier to find a job where there is more population.
 
Go knock on the door and ask to talk to the CP.

Ever ask a girl out, kinda the same idea
 
Tristar said:
So I'm probably going to be here a while longer but lets say there's a place I wanted to move to such as closer to family. Getting jobs in aviation is more about who you know than what you know. How do you approach a company you're interested in for a pilot job? I just see it as thats just not the way things are done and theres no way it's going to happen. I know I may also be low on experience. I have about 350 SIC king air time and around 40 SIC mustang time. Probably by the time I look I'll have some PIC time. Just looking for some ideas how to approach someone.
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Networking always is the best way to find jobs. Sometimes you get lucky and find the job on your own but my experience is a lot different. Even the current job I have I got from networking. They called me up and ask me to come work for them. I wasn't even looking. It helps that I am very well known in my industry and have many contacts. So that would be my first advice, get yourself known in the area you want to work.

Then as someone said, I think it was Ted, you can usually find the job you want or the geographic area, hardly ever both. I am lucky that right now I can work from anywhere, but alas I have an anchor issue not related to my work that stops me from getting out of suburban Chicago heck hole! But if I were to be required to be in an office, my choices are very limited. Basically SoCal, Dallas, Chicago and NJ are the places where there are companies that would hire someone with my skills. None of those places are particularly attractive to me, I could settle for SoCal though.

Get on professional social networking sites, get yourself known to the professionals in the area you want. Show up to those local events where you can meet people. Then send out the letters. IMHO these days unsolicited letters are the least effective.
 
Just like my experience with asking girls out, all of my jobs have been right place at the right time.

Make yourself known. Make friends with other local pilots (professional or otherwise). Keep an ear and eye open for anything that might be coming up. Chances are, you may hear about a pilot you know that got a great job at that other company, which means that the company they used to work at will need to hire someone to fill that seat.
 
Over the next few months we'll be looking for three XLS copilots, an XLS captain, an Encore copilot and couple of others. All Dallas-based jobs, timing will depend on the projected in-service dates.

Our last available local guy took a new job last week. The market for pilots is better than at any time during the past few years, thanks to the resurging economy here.

The other side of the deal is that we can run an ad for 24 hours on one of the corporate pilot sites and get 200 resumes, about 3/4 will be CFI's looking for their first real pilot gig.
 
wabower said:
The other side of the deal is that we can run an ad for 24 hours on one of the corporate pilot sites and get 200 resumes, about 3/4 will be CFI's looking for their first real pilot gig.
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Privett handed me a stack of applications once, and asked me what I thought of them. I told him they all read as having more experience than mine would have if I had written a CV before he hired me. He asked me if I would hire any of them, I said no f way.
 
Just out of curiosity, not me mind you, how do you guys do it if you're married? Like lets say your wife/husband finds a great job in a new place and of course you have to go with them. What then?
 
JHW said:
Privett handed me a stack of applications once, and asked me what I thought of them. I told him they all read as having more experience than mine would have if I had written a CV before he hired me. He asked me if I would hire any of them, I said no f way.
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Why not?
 
Tristar said:
Just out of curiosity, not me mind you, how do you guys do it if you're married? Like lets say your wife/husband finds a great job in a new place and of course you have to go with them. What then?
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You make the decision together
 
Tristar said:
Just out of curiosity, not me mind you, how do you guys do it if you're married? Like lets say your wife/husband finds a great job in a new place and of course you have to go with them. What then?
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Depends on a lot of factors:
goals as a couple?
kids?
goals as a couple?
partners earnings and earning potential?
goals as a couple?
Transportability of partner's skills?
goals as a couple?

In other words - be sure you and your partners goals are aligned.

It is possible to make it work for a defined period of time. Take military relationships as an example. Not easy, but it can work.
 
Not many aviation jobs that are worth relocating, and many of those that might qualify are commutable. When the move occurs, it's usually because the other (non-avaition) job was the motivator.
 
Tristar said:
Just out of curiosity, not me mind you, how do you guys do it if you're married? Like lets say your wife/husband finds a great job in a new place and of course you have to go with them. What then?
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So I don't know how much applies to aviation since everything seems to be ass-backward in aviation, but here's my advice related to a number of job related moves:

1. Never move without a job lined up. Its not difficult to secure the job before moving, so make sure you do.
2. Once you move, make sure you give it time. You may not be happy for the first 6 months or so, but it usually works out within a year. If it doesn't after a year, look again.
3. Don't quit your current job until you have another.

On the "significant other" front, my wife has followed me for the last two moves now. She followed similar advice - found a job before we moved and started it shortly after we arrived in Winston-Salem. For this last move, however, she had begun her most important career ever - "Stay at Home Mom" and that make the job search a bit easier for her out here in Colorado as finding the home and tending to it is now her full time job.

Ultimately, Tristan, moving is tough, but I've never seen it as being tough enough to avoid for the right reasons. Better job is one reason, your significant other leaving is another. Hell, just being bored and needing something new is a good reason.

I grew up in an area where people claim they are trapped and can't ever leave, so I have made it a personal mission to prove that is not true. Everyone can leave if you're willing to accept a very small amount of risk that seems a lot more risky before you do it once or twice.
 
Tristar said:
Just out of curiosity, not me mind you, how do you guys do it if you're married? Like lets say your wife/husband finds a great job in a new place and of course you have to go with them. What then?
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You've pretty much asked the question that every married couple where both work has to face at some point. Every couple has a different answer to this question, and that answer may change.

When Laurie and I got married, her job didn't care where she lived and my job did (working for that gray engine company). This made the decision of who should move pretty easy. Then I got caught in a round of layoffs and started flying charters and Part 91 corporate. We stayed local because we had a nice setup and there wasn't an aviation job for me that was worth moving for, especially with the aspects of our life like owning a house, etc.

Then we found out we were going to have a baby, which doesn't work very well with a touring pilot schedule. So we worked on figuring out what made the most sense for a way to be able to support the family, have a stay-at-home parent (either mom or dad), etc. My current job came up, and so we left Pennsylvania and moved to Ohio, which puts us closer to her family and further from mine, but both are about 3 hours away in the 310. It would've been great if we were able to move closer to her family, but it just wasn't going to work.

Whether you're in aviation or not, I don't think that it's much different. The advantage with many aviation jobs is that they do allow commuting, even though that may mean you're not home as many nights as a result. The other consideration is that you could always just go be an independent Part 61 flight instructor anywhere while you try to get a 135 job, etc.

I was pretty much raised understanding that I would live where the job took me, and that would mean that I may or may not be close to family as a result. I'm not very close to my family as a result of this mentality we all have, in part because everyone moved away and we never see eachother much. It's all a balancing act. Figure out how to achieve a good balance, and you'll be happy.
 
SkyHog said:
1. Never move without a job lined up. Its not difficult to secure the job before moving, so make sure you do.
2. Once you move, make sure you give it time. You may not be happy for the first 6 months or so, but it usually works out within a year. If it doesn't after a year, look again.
3. Don't quit your current job until you have another.
Click to expand...

Truth! I've followed these "rules" for nearly 40 years and they have served me well.
 
JHW said:
Privett handed me a stack of applications once, and asked me what I thought of them. I told him they all read as having more experience than mine would have if I had written a CV before he hired me. He asked me if I would hire any of them, I said no f way.
Click to expand...

Jim Logajan said:
Why not?
Click to expand...

Read many of his previous postings and it becomes clear. :rolleyes:
 
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