Jepp Plates vs NOS Plates

DutchessFlier

DutchessFlier

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DutchessFlier
Another newbie question about the type of approach plates I should buy, whether I should buy them as a subscription and where can I go (careful here :nono:) to save some $$$$ in the process. My CFI said he would split the cost of the plate subscription with me and he prefered the Jepp plates to the NACO(?) I am not sure if I got the abbreviation correct for the FAA plate name.
 
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If you plan on making a career as a pilot the Jepp plates seem to be the industry standard. They are very easy to read, but have their own little nuances. They are however quite expensive. If someone else is paying for them (ie. your employer) certainly go with them, if not...

For cost and effectiveness, I choose the NACO or NOS plates. One thing I prefer on the NOS plates is the airport diagram is located on each plate, opposed to Jeppesen's version having an airport page in the book. With it on the plate I think it helps you to orient yourself while inbound to the field.

To each their own on this one. Opinions will vary for sure.

I also use a subscription service for my plates, however with the recent start up of a pilot shop, I will try to provide the same service I give my customers for myself.



I should also mention - don't forget you can download plates in kneeboard format from AOPA for free (if you are a member) - only draw back is if you should need to re-route in flight and you didn't have a set of plates for that area.
 
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Commander Dave said:
I should also mention - don't forget you can download plates in kneeboard format from AOPA for free (if you are a member) -
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Just to clarify - all AOPA is doing is repackaging the charts that you can download for free directly from NACO

http://naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp

and from many, many other sources, some being more convenient for bulk downloading than others.

For the newbie, I'll also add that, for training purposes, it might make more sense to go NACO. Those are the charts that will appear on the knowledge test (unless things have changed a lot) and with most of your lessons being in the local area, being able to download and print the charts you need for free, write all over them and then print it again cna be a real advantage.
 
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I think Dave is pretty much on target here, ( Mark are you sure the test doesn't give both NOS and Jepp Plate, its been a while but I thought they did?)

In any event. I am a big fan of Jepp plates they are a value added product and IMHO are easier to read and use. That said I am converting to NOS/NACO plates( actually I think they will be called something else soon) Primarily to keep my flying cost down. There are so many great sources of NOS plates I like www.nacomatic.com thats run by a POAer. Anyway the NOS plates give you all the information that Jepp gives except they do give that small airport diagram and a little arrow showing your approach to the airport. What they don't have is other airports located near the approach.

Fact is both plates work if $ was not an issue I'd go Jepp if keeping cost down is a factor NOS is the way to go. Its that simple.
 
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Mark is correct about the written test, it has been a few years, maybe 5 since they had both.

I encourage my students to use the NACO for cost and the written test.

The difference between the 2 is getting less. IMHO NACO is catching up to Jepp. I use both for a bunch of reasons not worth going into why. I do like Jepp better but I'm not sure the cost and the hassle of incremental updates (without paying a lot more) is worth it especially for an instrument student.

As far as subscription, it's probably worth it for your local area.
Joe
 
If the choice is between full-price NACO and half-price Jepp, half-price Jepp seems a pretty good move. However, you need to investigate the costs and workloads involved in the various Jepp options, as the easier ones are more expensive than the more change-intensive ones. Also, you should consider how you will handle the mechanics of sharing the charts, and whether there may be much conflict between the two of you for chart use after you finish training.
 
I used both in training and preferred the Jepp plates. Yes, the updates are a PIA! but once a month I sit down and go through the binders.

One little secret about Jepp is that as a IFR student Pilot, you can subscribe to Jepp and receive a decent discount off the listed price. Call Jepp, and ask about student IFR specials. Jepp will email you a form to fill out, get your CFII's signature on it and fax it back! That's it!
 
The NACO plates are used on the IR written, which I took about 90 days ago. However, they are many years old on the test, and look a little different, i.e. the missed approach procedures are not in the same place as on current charts.
 
I agree with the overall sentiment that NACO charts are much more practical in terms of access and cost. Additionally if you are lucky to fly behind some latest glass cockpit which independently not only display but literally step you through the whole approach - there is even less reason to use expensive Jepp.
 
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Seems that if the written test uses the NOS plates, then thats what I should look into? IS the difference really big enough to make it a problem for me? I will get in contact with Jepp about the student discount ASAP. As far as sharing the plates, not sure if a conflict would exist. We have a pretty good CRM flow going on and we cross handle alot of the plane's functions and chart responsibilities depending on who's on the controls at any given point in our flights, whether they are lessons or just flying around for fun.
 
The NACO plates can be downloaded for free. The Jepp Plates can't.

If I was an instrument student, I wouldn't bother buying plates for an entire area. You know exactly where you're going to go (and it's probably going to be the same airports throughout your training).

Print those plates out, and a few more in case of wx issues, and save yourself the cost of buying Jepp plates for $$$ or NACO plates for $$.
 
DutchessFlier said:
Seems that if the written test uses the NOS plates, then thats what I should look into?
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Doesn't much matter. The written test still uses the old-style NOS format from several years back. The current NACO charts look more like Jepp format than they do the format on the test. And yeah, that's a stinky way for the FAA to do business, but that's the way it is. In any event, if you can read either Jepp or current NACO, it won't take much work to be able to read the old NOS formant on the test -- your instructor can work with you on the differences. My advice as a working instrument instructor is to train with the format with which you'll fly after you get your rating (look up the laws of primacy and exercise in the Aviation Instructor's Handbook to see why I say that).
 
DutchessFlier said:
IS the difference really big enough to make it a problem for me?
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Not really. It's sort of like learning how to fly itself. Get it done the most efficient way you can and once you get there, you can make whatever changes you want.

Get your private certificate in a 152 to control costs and and then go check out in a 210 if you want. Same with the charts. Learn with NACO, switch to Jepp, no big deal. Learn with Jepp and switch to NACO, no big deal either.
 
I use NACO, based on the following Advantages/ Disadvantages considerations:

Jepp -- Only replace updates
NACO -- replace each book every other month

Advantage, Jepp

Jepp -- Super-Cool Pro-Pilot Looking leather covers
NACO -- Choice of bound or unbound

Advantage, Jepp

Jepp -- Buy nationwide or regional subscription
NACO -- Lots of books cover lots of areas

Advantage, NACO

Jepp -- $ubscription
NACO -- Download every single plate for free

Advantage, NACO

I use NACO bound books. Every so often I have a bonfire of old approach books and maps. I've reduced my subscription area to help reduce total tree consumption, though.
 
DutchessFlier said:
IS the difference really big enough to make it a problem for me?
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Probably not. Its like airplanes. At first, you think that flying a Cessna is different than flying a Piper. Then, at some point, you realize that an airplane is an airplane, and they do the same fundamental things. Once you figure them out, they aren't hard to use, in either form.

That said. I carry NOS electronic charts on my eBook reader, with a Jeppesen Express manual for the state that I'm in, in the bag. I don't update the manual, just buy the express roughly every 6 months. I figure that if I loose the battery on the eBook, the paper will be there. Approaches don't change that often, plus, if they do, I'll bet there is at least one in there that hasn't changed that I can fly.
 
AdamZ said:
If you get Jepp View electronically you don't have to do all that.
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Hey Adam, Hmm, missed this one?? So the updates come in PDF file and I download? Explain oh great one!:rofl:

Yea, I am too lazy to look at Jepp's sight
 
JeppView is an electronic chart solution, that lets you use a tablet pc for in cockpit viewing, or print charts out on paper - and they even sell paper punched to match the binders. They ship you paper enroute charts and you download updates for the approach plate database.

It's terrific. It costs just a little less than a comparable Jepp paper chart subscription, which is to say a lot more than NACO.

NACO offers a similar tool with their digital - TPP product. Every 28 days you get a new DVD with all the approach plates for the US (and US territories). They have a usable in-cockpit interface for a tablet. They do NOT have the really cool print functions of Jeppview though. You can print a chart, or a bunch of charts, but not a whole trip kit with proper rotation and duplexing the way Jepp does it.
 
dmccormack said:
I use NACO, based on the following Advantages/ Disadvantages considerations:

Jepp -- Only replace updates
NACO -- replace each book every other month

Advantage, Jepp
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A lot of folks would say Advantage, NACO on that one. Tooing a new book in a bag is a lot more convenient than spending the time to pull and place individual pages.
 
midlifeflyer said:
A lot of folks would say Advantage, NACO on that one. Tooing a new book in a bag is a lot more convenient than spending the time to pull and place individual pages.
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It depends if you have storage space for all the old NACO books!

Most of the approaches don't change, so it seems a real waste to toss an entire book.

:dunno:
 
Most of the approaches don't change, so it seems a real waste to toss an entire book.
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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Air Chart Systems. http://www.airchart.com/Pages/ac_plates.html

i use Aviator Trip Pack to print plates for trips and local practice (http://www.cmensys.com/) and carry the paper books and the Air Chart updater for backup/diversion.

The monthly updater covers the whole country, so if you buy one region and end up with a trip outside the region, you can just buy the books you need and they will be good for the rest of the year. Also, if you have a book that you feel is getting too elderly, just replace it with a current one.

(Aviator Trip Pack also provides AF/D pages and pages from the AOPA airport directory, so I have dropped my AF/D subscriptions as well.)
 
TMetzinger said:
JeppView is an electronic chart solution, that lets you use a tablet pc for in cockpit viewing, or print charts out on paper - and they even sell paper punched to match the binders. They ship you paper enroute charts and you download updates for the approach plate database.

It's terrific. It costs just a little less than a comparable Jepp paper chart subscription, which is to say a lot more than NACO.

NACO offers a similar tool with their digital - TPP product. Every 28 days you get a new DVD with all the approach plates for the US (and US territories). They have a usable in-cockpit interface for a tablet. They do NOT have the really cool print functions of Jeppview though. You can print a chart, or a bunch of charts, but not a whole trip kit with proper rotation and duplexing the way Jepp does it.
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Ah! Got it! Thanks Tim!
 
dmccormack said:
It depends if you have storage space for all the old NACO books!

Most of the approaches don't change, so it seems a real waste to toss an entire book.

:dunno:
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I think it more depends if you care about trees and not about any space. You simply throw away entire book - no storage space required. Here I agree with Mark - considering amount of paper wasted every day on junk mail and how few IFR flyers live among us and how painful is process of replacing individual plates - throwing away entire book sounds like no big sacrifice to me.
 
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olasek said:
I think it more depends if you care about trees and not about any space. You simply throw away entire book - no storage space required. Here I agree with Mark - considering amount of paper wasted every day on junk mail and how few IFR flyers live among us and how painful is process of replacing individual plates - throwing away entire book sounds like no big sacrifice to me.
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They can be used for other things... For example, after all the newspapers go out of business, you'll be using NACO plates to start the fire in your fireplace. :yes:
 
olasek said:
I think it more depends if you care about trees and not about any space. You simply throw away entire book - no storage space required. Here I agree with Mark - considering amount of paper wasted every day on junk mail and how few IFR flyers live among us and how painful is process of replacing individual plates - throwing away entire book sounds like no big sacrifice to me.
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Trees grow back.

If I can reduce waste, I do. Yet in this case the cost of reducing waste output is too high. So I use NACO charts.
 
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Heck, send your old NACO books to the outhouses in WV and the backcountry of PA. The folks there will know how to recycle them.
 
I'm a convert to Jepp. Now that I've been at it a while, using both NACO and Jepp, I can say that I prefer Jepp.

BUT

If you are just starting training, go Naco. Convenience rules. You can usually find the plate books at an FBO. You can get them online for free from numerous sources. Charts are also easily available, or you can go with the AirCharts solution (I find the big books kind of a pain, but that's just me).

Learning how to use Jepp is not hard. Get your rating, fly a bit. If you have the $$ and fly a lot, Jepp will be worth looking at down the road - the FliteChart program lets you print out the plates you need. I carry a binder with the airports I travel to frequently, plus whatever I need for a tripkit (in a pinch, I have the jepp Echarts on the Avidyne, so I don't worry about emergency reroutes).

Learning one if you've flown the other is not rocket science. People make a big deal out of it, but it's really not.

Save money, and time, and learn with NACO.
 
NACO charts have changed a lot for the better in the past few years. I now use NACO charts exclusively. To each his own.
 
somorris said:
NACO charts have changed a lot for the better in the past few years. I now use NACO charts exclusively. To each his own.
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I tend to agree. While I like the Jepp format (not the price), the NACO charts have now added the briefing strip, this combined with the airport diagram makes them a very nice chart.

Trouble is they are only re-creating the charts as time comes to re-publish for other reasons. I don't think there is any initiative to go and re-create all of the charts at once. That said, the new format is beginning to appear more and more.
 
I prefer the NACO plates. I think they are plenty easy to read and lower cost. They are also more available when you're on the go.

I've never seen anything about a Jepp plate that makes it better. It looks different and costs more. Perhaps there is something I haven't realized that makes them superior.
 
jesse said:
I prefer the NACO plates. I think they are plenty easy to read and lower cost. They are also more available when you're on the go.

I've never seen anything about a Jepp plate that makes it better. It looks different and costs more. Perhaps there is something I haven't realized that makes them superior.
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I wonder whether there's a liberal/conservative bias in this :D

Liberals like NACO because it's paid for in public funds, so the cost to the consumer is less.

Conservatives like Jepp because, after all, who ever heard of the goivernment ever doing anything right?

:P
 
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