Java????

pmanton

pmanton

Final Approach
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N1431A
What is the purpose of Java? Can I safely delete it? I'm tired of it attempting to update every time I turn the computer on. It does this in spite of having been updated.:mad2:

Paul
N2426E
N1431A
2AZ1
 
Yes, you can safely delete it, but doing so will prevent you from getting some functionality on some sites, like aviationweather.gov, which uses a lot of Java.

It shouldn't be attempting to update unless a new version comes out or the previous update was unsuccessful. It will, however, check regularly to see if there is a new update available. If it is prompting you every time that you have an update to install, I would log in as an administrator rather than as a limited user account and run the update. If you have already done that, then I would uninstall Java and, if you want the functionality, re-install it.
 
pmanton said:
What is the purpose of Java? Can I safely delete it? I'm tired of it attempting to update every time I turn the computer on. It does this in spite of having been updated.:mad2:

Paul
N2426E
N1431A
2AZ1
Click to expand...

Java feeds me and my family and puts fuel in my airplane. :D

Go to your control panel, click on Java, click on the "Update" tab and uncheck "Check for Updates Automatically"
 
Sunday I noticed that I was on Java 6 release 39 or something like that. Java's website said there was a version 7 out.

The auto update was not working right and I could not find the updater to make it happen manually. I uninstalled the old one and reinstalled the new one. I only figured this out cause I watched an episode of Techzilla and they reminded me about the security issues that were recently identified. I was not sure mine was updated or not. Turns out it was not.

So if it is trying to update frequently, I would say it is not working right and uninstall land reinstall.

Other than that, I would keep it so that you won't have a website say ti needs Java and have to interrupt what you are doing to install it.


David
 
bartmc said:
Go to your control panel, click on Java, click on the "Update" tab and uncheck "Check for Updates Automatically"
Click to expand...
Really? Just like most software on the computer, there can be security vulnerabilities. It sounds to me as if, despite an attempted update, it still isn't at the most recent version. I'd want to correct that deficiency.

Oh, to the OP, if you update or reinstall manually, you may be asked if you want to install the Ask toolbar or something like that along with Java. It defaults to checked. UNCHECK IT.
 
DHS issued a warning in January about Java 7 update 10 and less and I believe they removed it from government computers as sophisticated hackers originating in Asia were using it to gain access to high value US computers without the user even knowing or doing anything to make themselves vulnerable. Oracle released a Java update and the DHS said it didn't go far enough.

Apple stopped shipping Java last year over security concerns.

I would highly recommend disabling it until it's well documented that this vulnerability has been fixed.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...web-browsers-oracle-corp-s-java-software-bugs

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...tware-problem/?ref=homelandsecuritydepartment
 
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gprellwitz said:
Really? Just like most software on the computer, there can be security vulnerabilities. It sounds to me as if, despite an attempted update, it still isn't at the most recent version. I'd want to correct that deficiency.

Oh, to the OP, if you update or reinstall manually, you may be asked if you want to install the Ask toolbar or something like that along with Java. It defaults to checked. UNCHECK IT.
Click to expand...

Yep, and you can make it behave just like most software on the computer and not nag you incessantly by turning it off in the control panel.
 
I found that Java apps at aviationweather.gov are not that essential for flight planning. I can get all the same results using their non-Java products. The only app that I miss is the Skew-T at NOAA website rucsoundings.noaa.gov.
 
pmanton said:
What is the purpose of Java? Can I safely delete it? I'm tired of it attempting to update every time I turn the computer on. It does this in spite of having been updated.:mad2:

Paul
N2426E
N1431A
2AZ1
Click to expand...

Well, since you asked.

Java is a HUGE GINORMUS monstrosity of a programming language/software environment. Most people's interaction with it came about 10 years ago after a "feature" called applets caught on a little and all most people knew was that they "had to install java" to see the applets. What they were really installing was a connector (plug-in) from java to your web browser that enabled running programs written in thye java programming language to run inside your web browser as if they were part of the web page. The plug-in was cumbersome to install, confused most people about what they were actually doing, buggy, generally riddled issues, not to mention very restrictive on what the programmer could run unrestricted in a web browser (due to security concerns). In other words, programmers hated writing applets and the people using the plug-in hated it and they couldn't be deployed reliabily. Applets are also extremely resource intensive and slow when they actually do work. The java applet plugin that most people refer to as "Java" is only about 1/1,000,000,000th of what Java actually is, and it's about the worst part of it, but it's what most people think of when you say "java" because that's the closest most end users ever knowingly came to the actual technology. The usefulness of the applet plugin has been mostly supplanted by technologies like AJAX, HTML5, Silverlight and Flash. They still pop up occasionally, like on ancient aviation weather sites. I haven't written an applet in 10 years, I'm not upset about that. However, plenty of programs out there today require the Java JRE to run (this has nothing to do with your web browser). Don't uninstall it. The "Automatic Update" can be disabled, it is intrusive and irritating and they really should find a better way to get the word out that there's a new version. Automatic Updates can also do like the above post is referring to and install fresh exploits that don't have a fix. Hackers tend to keep the fresh exploits to themselves, then tell the world their secret AFTER they've had their fun. I currently write some software targeted at java 1.5 that was released 8.5 years ago and for which support ended 4 years ago. We're upgrading the java versions, but we certainly don't need a popup window nagging us everyday to do so. Either way, the odds of running into an exploit are fairly rare. The odds of running into one that Google hasn't already caught up with that get's past your virus blocker are extremely rare and probably best experienced by installing the latest version and running into it before anyone notices.

Throw the browser plug in away, turn off automatic updates and have fun.
 
Please anyone that reads this post, there is NO REASON to remove the java platform from your computer. Removing the Java Platform is a BAD idea, period.

Furthermore doing so, will not allow you access to a majority of online functionality, not just a minor inconvenience. Java and HTML5 are the backbone of the majority of websites, media, music, applications, UI's and will continue to expand that integration in the shorthand.

Any disabling of the "auto update" feature is also a very very bad idea! There is a reason for those updates, so UPDATE IT! That way you don't run into vulnerability issues by having an outdated or unsupported version of the software.

If you need assistance with a Java platform issue, then troubleshoot the problem with online assistance, or using a local technician.

ATTENTION: If you are concerned about the compromise in the news at the end of January and homeland security here:
http://www.examiner.com/article/how-to-disable-or-uninstall-java-u-s-homeland-security-java-warning
That security issue has been resolved and you should return your system to it's normal state.
 
Archammer said:
Please anyone that reads this post, there is NO REASON to remove the java platform from your computer. Removing the Java Platform is a BAD idea, period.

Furthermore doing so, will not allow you access to a majority of online functionality, not just a minor inconvenience. Java and HTML5 are the backbone of the majority of websites, media, music, applications, UI's and will continue to expand that integration in the shorthand.

Any disabling of the "auto update" feature is also a very very bad idea! There is a reason for those updates, so UPDATE IT! That way you don't run into vulnerability issues by having an outdated or unsupported version of the software.

If you need assistance with a Java platform issue, then troubleshoot the problem with online assistance, or using a local technician.

ATTENTION: If you are concerned about the compromise in the news at the end of January and homeland security here:
http://www.examiner.com/article/how-to-disable-or-uninstall-java-u-s-homeland-security-java-warning
That security issue has been resolved and you should return your system to it's normal state.
Click to expand...

Oh the horror!!! Outdated software :hairraise: Suggesting automatic updates as a security policy would be one way to not get a job as a sysyadmin. They cause far more issues than they fix, especially if one just blindly UPDATES IT! Because its new and improved.

Sort of like IT's version of the TSA.
 
Java isn't bloated.

*looking at several GBs of jdeveloper and weblogic downloads*

Ok. Java is bloated.
 
ChrisK said:
Java isn't bloated.

*looking at several GBs of jdeveloper and weblogic downloads*

Ok. Java is bloated.
Click to expand...

Bingo.

I took a simple tool I had developed in PHP and rebuilt it in Oracle ADF. What was done in 2 files in PHP ended up being over 60 files in ADF. What a pain to troubleshoot.
 
CJones said:
Bingo.

I took a simple tool I had developed in PHP and rebuilt it in Oracle ADF. What was done in 2 files in PHP ended up being over 60 files in ADF. What a pain to troubleshoot.
Click to expand...

Did I just read A PHP guy say java was hard to troubleshoot? :goofy:
 
bartmc said:
Oh the horror!!! Outdated software :hairraise: Suggesting automatic updates as a security policy would be one way to not get a job as a sysyadmin. They cause far more issues than they fix, especially if one just blindly UPDATES IT! Because its new and improved.

Sort of like IT's version of the TSA.
Click to expand...
That's true if one is looking for a job as a sysadmin. However, for a home user who isn't a computer nerd, I think it's preferable to leaving the autoupdate off, because I'll bet you that they won't check for updates on any of their stuff for YEARS!
 
bartmc said:
Did I just read A PHP guy say java was hard to troubleshoot? :goofy:
Click to expand...

True Java maybe notsomuch - I've only done a couple of true 'Java' apps, which were pretty easy to deal with. Everything else non-PHP has been in Oracle ADF using JDeveloper (Oracle's convoluted way of delivering Java). When you add in all of the behind-the-scenes XML files that JDeveloper sometimes updates and sometimes doesn't update when you make a change, yes it is a royal PITA to troubleshoot.

With PHP on CodeIgniter framework, I really only had 3 files to check when something would work - the controller, model, or view. There weren't any ever-growing config/properties files that randomly don't get updated when you make a change in the IDE.

I guess my frustration is with JDeveloper more than Java. ;)
 
bartmc said:
Oh the horror!!! Outdated software :hairraise: Suggesting automatic updates as a security policy would be one way to not get a job as a sysyadmin. They cause far more issues than they fix, especially if one just blindly UPDATES IT! Because its new and improved.

Sort of like IT's version of the TSA.
Click to expand...

OH the horror? Ya, advising a novice computer user to disable crucial software and it's updates sure is. Those are the exact reasons why IT departments have jobs, because when we ask why they turned something off - i.e. java platform - they say "They told me on the forum that it was ok."

But good talk Russ. Living in Texas I thought I was right wing, but buddy, you take the cake... IT's version of TSA.. Wow, you must leave DEEP in the woods.
 
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Archammer said:
OH the horror? Ya, advising a novice computer user to disable crucial software and it's updates sure is. Those are the exact reasons why IT departments have jobs, because when we ask why they turned something off - i.e. java platform - they say "They told me on the forum that it was ok."
Click to expand...

On the other hand, I had a perfectly good Documents to Go on my Android but "allow automatic updates" was checked and since the last automatic update no longer reads documents created by Open Office on my PC. The response from Dataviz is to use Microsoft word instead.
 
Archammer said:
OH the horror? Ya, advising a novice computer user to disable crucial software and it's updates sure is. Those are the exact reasons why IT departments have jobs, because when we ask why they turned something off - i.e. java platform - they say "They told me on the forum that it was ok."

But good talk Russ. Living in Texas I thought I was right wing, but buddy, you take the cake... IT's version of TSA.. Wow, you must leave DEEP in the woods.
Click to expand...

I can assure you that automatic updates have caused more grief than the remote possibility of running into a known exploit in an older version of java, not to mention the nagging and issues with the updates themselves, IIRC the most recent exploit to hit the java market was on a fresh release and only effected early adopters. This is precisely why IT departments would never dream of leaving automatic updates on (and why you'll not have to worry about a user turning them off). I haven't seen an automatic updater yet that would pass our security audit anyway. I lived off the grid in a rough log cabin that was in the DEEP woods in Montana for a while, suburban Savannah, not so much.
 
At least you can breakpoint and inspect adf, including the bindings and jspx files. Try that with php.
 
N1431A, if you run Win 7 - 64 bit, they've had a few boo boo releases lately; crashes, security problems, utten nonfunctionality.

The mess ups are really for really ****-poor software engineering (sorry, bartmc), and they are releasing update/patches at a phenomenal rate currently, I think five in the last 4 weeks.

This is kind of like the early days of XP. They decided to release updates on Tuesday and Wednesday as "black wednesday". We ran XP for months with the updates TURNED OFF so we would have a functioning office. They usually got it fixed by the weekend. It was during that period that I started imaging my computers so that I could easily go back to last monday's version. I would allow ONE computer, a slave terminal pentium 4 with 2gB and a small HD, to be on automatic update. That was so I could see what was happening.

The ONE critical Java app for me is http://rucsoundings.noaa.gov.

That's how current America works. "We beta test it out on your machine". Ford Motor Co does that all the time- recall the introduction of the Ford 500? Dashboards delaminated, brakes rusted, it went on and on.....
 
Archammer said:
Please anyone that reads this post, there is NO REASON to remove the java platform from your computer. Removing the Java Platform is a BAD idea, period.

Furthermore doing so, will not allow you access to a majority of online functionality, not just a minor inconvenience. Java and HTML5 are the backbone of the majority of websites, media, music, applications, UI's and will continue to expand that integration in the shorthand.
Click to expand...

Javascript and HTML are important in web. Java applets, not so much any more. I don't think anyone is advocating disabling javascript inside of a browser.
 
bbchien said:
N1431A, if you run Win 7 - 64 bit, they've had a few boo boo releases lately; crashes, security problems, utten nonfunctionality.

The mess ups are really for really ****-poor software engineering (sorry, bartmc), and they are releasing update/patches at a phenomenal rate currently, I think five in the last 4 weeks.

This is kind of like the early days of XP. They decided to release updates on Tuesday and Wednesday as "black wednesday". We ran XP for months with the updates TURNED OFF so we would have a functioning office. They usually got it fixed by the weekend. It was during that period that I started imaging my computers so that I could easily go back to last monday's version. I would allow ONE computer, a slave terminal pentium 4 with 2gB and a small HD, to be on automatic update. That was so I could see what was happening.

The ONE critical Java app for me is http://rucsoundings.noaa.gov.

That's how current America works. "We beta test it out on your machine". Ford Motor Co does that all the time- recall the introduction of the Ford 500? Dashboards delaminated, brakes rusted, it went on and on.....
Click to expand...

Fast, cheap, good... Pick 2
 
Archammer said:
Any disabling of the "auto update" feature is also a very very bad idea! There is a reason for those updates, so UPDATE IT! That way you don't run into vulnerability issues by having an outdated or unsupported version of the software.
Click to expand...

Yabut you just might have a functioning computer if you DON'T update. I did a Java Update tonight and now ADDS' METAR Java tool doesn't work. Yes it worked perfectly before.

You can take these updates and stuff 'em. I don't operate on the cutting edge; I don't need weekly updates to run my stuff. Give me the option of receiving all updates one month in arrears! Let everyone else be the beta testers. Jeez....


-Skip
 
bartmc said:
Fast, cheap, good... Pick 2
Click to expand...
Yeah, well......sadly it is what it is.....and after Java updates crashed my ability at the house, to display http://rucsoundings.noaa.gov, which is critical to my operations....I disabled java updates on my 4 other platforms.

When a set of java updates makes my desktop work again, I'll CONSIDER turning them back on on my other stations.

Fast and cheap. Yup.
XP on the other hand, was neither Fast, nor cheap nor good.
 
My favorite part of the Java plugin is when it tries to trick you into installing the ASK Toolbar every time an update is released. My poor parents seem to accumulate about 30 useless browser toolbars on their computer each year before I get a chance to clean them all out. It makes me mad that software companies try to sneak their affiliate's software on your computers.
 
MN_Flyer said:
My favorite part of the Java plugin is when it tries to trick you into installing the ASK Toolbar every time an update is released. My poor parents seem to accumulate about 30 useless browser toolbars on their computer each year before I get a chance to clean them all out. It makes me mad that software companies try to sneak their affiliate's software on your computers.
Click to expand...

Hate!
 
bbchien said:
Yeah, well......sadly it is what it is.....and after Java updates crashed my ability at the house, to display http://rucsoundings.noaa.gov, which is critical to my operations....I disabled java updates on my 4 other platforms.

When a set of java updates makes my desktop work again, I'll CONSIDER turning them back on on my other stations.

Fast and cheap. Yup.
XP on the other hand, was neither Fast, nor cheap nor good.
Click to expand...

XP was a beacon of quality compared to the Win 9x ( or gasp, ME ) products it replaced, at 200 bucks it was a great value too considering that barely funds one programmer for half a day. By fast, I mean how soon do you want it? Not execution speed. These days that's more or less a hardware issue...for better or worse.
 
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