Issue with checkride

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You have every right to complain. I would suggest writing down everything as not to forget anything, stay factual.

Write a formal complaint and mail to your local FSDO. Then follow up with a call.
 
Send a copy to the DOT and/or FAA inspectors general offices. Send all mail certified, return receipt if you feel like spending the extra money, you can track certified now. Present your letter not as a complaint. "I am bringing to your attention behavior that reflects badly on the FAA and DOT. It is my understanding that the FAA can resolve this fairly quickly through administrative action. The following facts are relevant: "
 
Sounds to me (from your side of the story only) that you have a legitimate complaint. Contact the FSDO as suggested.
 
LOL Maybe I’m the only one, but I wouldn’t be offended one bit if a DPE said this kind of stuff to me, I’d actually find it quite amusing because it’s so off the wall. Is it appropriate and professional? Not at all, but I also wouldn’t get bent out of shape over it by any means.
 
Ryanb said:
LOL Maybe I’m the only one, but I wouldn’t be offended one bit if a DPE said this kind of stuff to me, I’d actually find it quite amusing because it’s so off the wall. Is it appropriate and professional? Not at all, but I also wouldn’t get bent out of shape over it by any means.
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Problem is a DPE represents the FAA while performing his/her duties. And the FAA demands professional conduct by its designees.

There is a time and place for everything. This kind of conduct during a FAA check ride is unacceptable.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Problem is a DPE represents the FAA while performing his/her duties. And the FAA demands professional conduct by its designees.

There is a time and place for everything. This kind of conduct during a FAA check ride is unacceptable.
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Yes and I don’t disagree with that part at all. If this story is true, it is certainly unacceptable.
 
If he was truthful about the FAA talking to him about "hate mail" this is probably a good time to let them know of your experience with him. They may already be on to something . . .

There's nothing wrong with hard questions, but the personal stuff with sexual overtones has no place in a check ride.
 
All too often people get away with this crap because no one says anything. Please don't let this miscreant slither away. You are probably not the first to let the feds know about this DPE but hopefully you can and will be the last because they fire him.
 
Well thanks for all of your inputs, I promise this is all true and I couldn't make this up if I tried. Definitely time and place for that talk. When you really give your all to something and then fail it's very disappointing. I also feel that for an instrument check ride, we weren't really covering a lot of material as those exam questions were all the exam questions he asked. My school is not assigning me with him for a retest fortunately and as they were not impressed either I'm going to assume they are going to stay away from him.
 
Ryanb said:
LOL Maybe I’m the only one, but I wouldn’t be offended one bit if a DPE said this kind of stuff to me, I’d actually find it quite amusing because it’s so off the wall. Is it appropriate and professional? Not at all, but I also wouldn’t get bent out of shape over it by any means.
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Yes, you would be the only one that would be amused to have a grossly unprofessional examiner fail you and tarnish your permanent record after giving him $600 and spending thousands on preparation. Why don't you sign up for a checkride with the guy, then when you fail let us all know how funny it was.
 
dmspilot said:
Yes, you would be the only one that would be amused to have a grossly unprofessional examiner fail you and tarnish your permanent record after giving him $600 and spending thousands on preparation. Why don't you sign up for a checkride with the guy, then when you fail let us all know how funny it was.
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Read my reply again. I didn’t find anything about the fact that he failed, to be amusing.
 
I probably would have walked away if he were 3 hours late, but most definitely if those first few comments came in the first few minutes. Right before I started writing my letter to the fsdo I would have put a stop on the check......
 
Mike1238 said:
how long to time outbound legs of holds and crab angle to correct for wind to achieve a 1 minute inbound leg time of a hold
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This one is legit...the inbound leg timing is one of the criteria that defines the hold, and you have to know how to make that happen.

On the other hand, if the “correct” answer required a whiz wheel with crab angle within a degree and included turn radii corrected for wind, I’d say it was excessive.

The other thing t keep in mind is that the examiner can terminate the oral any time he feels the applicant is unsat...he doesn’t have to go through every element of every task before issuing a disapproval.

I’m not saying the examiner acted anywhere near properly overall, but if and when you complain to the FAA, make sure you’re not complaining about the few items that may have been accomplished properly.
 
My multi-ifr ride was with someone well known for failing people, and supposedly a real hard a.s.
I found him pleasant, and just thoroughly doing his job.
But you either knew it or failed, no wishy washy, good enough I guess attitude.
 
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You need to make a written complaint to the FAA detailing what you reported here.
 
dmspilot said:
a grossly unprofessional examiner fail you and tarnish your permanent record after giving him $600 and spending thousands on preparation.
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How does the somebody being grossly unprofessional tarnish your reputation? A huge stretch. If a guy fails a check ride, that is a fail. People fail, now the guy is unprofessional. Why would anybody take this much abuse and continue a check ride then come to POA for advice. It’s so outrageous as to be unbelievable, much like live streaming in a SWA bathroom.
 
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Mike1238 said:
I recently took my instrument rating checkride and I feel that I was given a very unfair oral exam. My school has never used this examiner but he flew down with his friend as our local dpe's were unavailable. The examiner asked me what approach categories were and why the radius increased in size with each category. My answer was that they are based on Vso times 1.3 and the radius is larger because faster planes need a larger radius to be able to make a normal descent with normal maneuvers. He said that my answer wasn't fully correct, I needed to also say that it was so the large planes could also make the required standard rate of turn for downwind to final. He said the same to my instructor as well, and I cannot find where that is stated in any of the textbooks. I was asked to state an exact crab angle for wind corrections when making turns in a traffic pattern. I was also asked for exact distances from the runway when on downwind and turning final for circling approaches and normal traffic pattern (a range was unacceptable), as well as how long to time outbound legs of holds and crab angle to correct for wind to achieve a 1 minute inbound leg time of a hold. These questions took up most of the checkride we did not cover ANY other subject material besides holds and circling procedures. I was ridiculed for not being about to answer to his liking.
I also want to mention his behavior that I found very unprofessional.
  • He was almost 3 hours late to my checkride and the checkride the day prior
  • He only communicated with another student about his late arrival despite having both my number and my instructor's number.
  • Upon meeting me he commented I shouldn't wear a tie the next day, or wear only a tie.
  • He asked me where I grew up when I told him, he asked me if I was inbred and if I thought my sister was "hot"
  • During the checkride, he told me he had received a "hate email from the FAA" about a previous checkride he conducted.
  • He made several phone calls during my oral exam one of which being to the FAA about the "hate email" he received and told me he was "talking to the only hot and nice woman from the FAA"
  • At one point, he drew a circling procedure on the board and asked me "Is this a penis, a vagina, or a circling approach?"
  • When I answered his question about approach categories about descending to the runway with "a normal descent using normal maneuvers", he then asked me, "Well, define normal, what's normal to me might not be normal to someone else. For example, gay marriage isn't normal to me but it might be for someone else!"
  • He asked me when I was younger if my dad ever got mad at me for taking too long of showers from "wacking off"
  • During the checkride, he left the room several times. Later, my instructor relayed to me that the examiner went to go ask the same exam questions to my instructors and fellow students.
  • He also used profanity during the exam and the debriefing.
I'm posting this because my instructors and I feel that I wasn't given a fair checkride and that he was extremely unprofessional. It's been suggested that I make a complaint to the fsdo. Is that a good idea? How would I even go about this and what can come out of it?
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If story is accurate hopefully FAA will reconsider letting him be a DPE.
 
There seemed to be a couple of DPEs around here that lost their status for touching female check ride candidates, no word whether or not the candidate failed the check ride first. For my last few years I had a job I would never be in the room with a member of the opposite sex for their protection, and mine - I am pretty good looking, and an amazing conversationalist. I imagine having a third wheel in a check ride and an airplane has to happen eventually or at least permission to record, some FAA equivalent of a body cam.
 
So often when someone fails a ride, the story is, ummm, shall we say, embellished...

Accepting ZERO blame for failing, is tough for me to swallow. I wasn't there, and not saying that there was no fault on the other side as well...but to be such an extremely one sided story makes my spidey senses kick in.
I listened to a guy rant about an examiner who was so unfair, so evil, and impossible to pass with...next week he passed me without any complaints on my multi-ifr ride. A student who won't even accept 10% of the blame, makes it tough for me to not question the story.
Sadly we will likely never hear the accused man's side of the story. I terminated someone yesterday, I bet that when she told her story to family and friends last night, I was made out as the most evil person on earth. Of course they don't care about the truth, and will just forever consider me Satan himself.
 
So often when someone fails a ride, the story is, ummm, shall we say, embellished...

...and sometimes it's not. I've witnessed things I would say are totally made up had I not seen it myself.
 
Shuswap BC said:
So often when someone fails a ride, the story is, ummm, shall we say, embellished...

Accepting ZERO blame for failing, is tough for me to swallow. I wasn't there, and not saying that there was no fault on the other side as well...but to be such an extremely one sided story makes my spidey senses kick in.
I listened to a guy rant about an examiner who was so unfair, so evil, and impossible to pass with...next week he passed me without any complaints on my multi-ifr ride. A student who won't even accept 10% of the blame, makes it tough for me to not question the story.
Sadly we will likely never hear the accused man's side of the story. I terminated someone yesterday, I bet that when she told her story to family and friends last night, I was made out as the most evil person on earth. Of course they don't care about the truth, and will just forever consider me Satan himself.
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Doesn’t matter to me whether he accepts some responsibility for the bust or not...I’ll assume he didn’t answer everything correctly (and in my prior post I pointed out a couple of areas where his impression of unfairness may have been incorrect). What tells me he probably has valid complaints is the specificity of his statements, but he still needs to go through proper channels for someone to determine whether any action is required.

Also, it was a different examiner that passed him.
 
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Shuswap BC said:
I listened to a guy rant about an examiner who was so unfair, so evil, and impossible to pass with...next week he passed me without any complaints on my multi-ifr ride.
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Yeah, but you're God's gift to pilots. So there's that.
 
1RTK1 said:
I probably would have walked away if he were 3 hours late, but most definitely if those first few comments came in the first few minutes. Right before I started writing my letter to the fsdo I would have put a stop on the check......
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But how many examiners accept checks? All I've seen require cash up front.
 
SToL said:
You forgot humble.
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Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comment. If we only had more sweet encouraging souls on POA we could have peace in our lifetimes. You keep on keeping on ma’am.
 
I'm really confused. Am I missing a post up front?
 
Sac Arrow said:
I'm really confused. Am I missing a post up front?
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Yeah, but it was deleted in an update but reconstituted in post #26:

Mike1238 said: ↑
I recently took my instrument rating checkride and I feel that I was given a very unfair oral exam. My school has never used this examiner but he flew down with his friend as our local dpe's were unavailable. The examiner asked me what approach categories were and why the radius increased in size with each category. My answer was that they are based on Vso times 1.3 and the radius is larger because faster planes need a larger radius to be able to make a normal descent with normal maneuvers. He said that my answer wasn't fully correct, I needed to also say that it was so the large planes could also make the required standard rate of turn for downwind to final. He said the same to my instructor as well, and I cannot find where that is stated in any of the textbooks. I was asked to state an exact crab angle for wind corrections when making turns in a traffic pattern. I was also asked for exact distances from the runway when on downwind and turning final for circling approaches and normal traffic pattern (a range was unacceptable), as well as how long to time outbound legs of holds and crab angle to correct for wind to achieve a 1 minute inbound leg time of a hold. These questions took up most of the checkride we did not cover ANY other subject material besides holds and circling procedures. I was ridiculed for not being about to answer to his liking.
I also want to mention his behavior that I found very unprofessional.
  • He was almost 3 hours late to my checkride and the checkride the day prior
  • He only communicated with another student about his late arrival despite having both my number and my instructor's number.
  • Upon meeting me he commented I shouldn't wear a tie the next day, or wear only a tie.
  • He asked me where I grew up when I told him, he asked me if I was inbred and if I thought my sister was "hot"
  • During the checkride, he told me he had received a "hate email from the FAA" about a previous checkride he conducted.
  • He made several phone calls during my oral exam one of which being to the FAA about the "hate email" he received and told me he was "talking to the only hot and nice woman from the FAA"
  • At one point, he drew a circling procedure on the board and asked me "Is this a penis, a vagina, or a circling approach?"
  • When I answered his question about approach categories about descending to the runway with "a normal descent using normal maneuvers", he then asked me, "Well, define normal, what's normal to me might not be normal to someone else. For example, gay marriage isn't normal to me but it might be for someone else!"
  • He asked me when I was younger if my dad ever got mad at me for taking too long of showers from "wacking off"
  • During the checkride, he left the room several times. Later, my instructor relayed to me that the examiner went to go ask the same exam questions to my instructors and fellow students.
  • He also used profanity during the exam and the debriefing.
I'm posting this because my instructors and I feel that I wasn't given a fair checkride and that he was extremely unprofessional. It's been suggested that I make a complaint to the fsdo. Is that a good idea? How would I even go about this and what can come out of it?
Click to expand...
 
dbahn said:
Yeah, but it was deleted in an update but reconstituted in post #26:
Click to expand...

Ah, got it. Thanks. Not sure where to stand on this. On the OP's story, on face value he has a gripe.
 
It always makes me wonder when original post is full of anger and accusations and we all get up in a fuss and the post gets deleted.
 
SToL said:
But how many examiners accept checks? All I've seen require cash up front.
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Mine accepted a check. In fact if you failed the oral he said he would only charge you half. I passed and don’t remember giving him a check until it was all said and done.
 
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