Isolated or Scattered T-Storms Go or No Go for x-country?

[wabower]

See OP's post #1. He said the upcoming trips would be with and without a CFI.
Shouldn't that be all the proof necessary that he's not unsupervised at this stage of training?

See my note 3 & 5. I recommend flying with a CFI to become comfortable with weather, not solo student flights. All of my initial flight training was during close to perfect weather. If one plans to spend all of their flying time locally, then yes it is easy to look outside for a go/no-go decision. I planned on doing some long xc flights with family, so after flight training I found two IFR rated CFI's to go out with me. Until I flew in MVFR conditions, rain, snow, TS, I did not know what it would be like. Glad I was with a CFI. It also allows time to learn xm or ads-b wx while your CFI is on the controls. I think we would have less accidents if CFI's, student pilots, private pilots shared some time in not so perfect wx and loading conditions. How many are like me and get more training before diving in solo?

 

[dukeblue219]

Get an instrument rating as your next step. It's not so you can use it to penetrate storms (this can end badly) but because of the confidence and skillset you'll gain from the training. I don't typically fly IFR in the summer (ok, this is only the second summer I've been rated) but I just completed a lengthy, week-long cross country which led me from DC to Minnesota and back. I did it all VFR, staying far upwind from any precip which showed on the XM (this is not the same as using it as your only resource to tactically avoid storms!), and visually avoided flying near the larger buildups.

For many of the segments they would have been easily doable with just a PP certificate. However, having the IFR training made me far more comfortable flying in weather where rain and scattered pop up thunderstorms are a daily occurrence. I was able to fly under the clouds in hazy summer weather without nearly the same gut-wrenching worry I had VFR-only, and I also had a lot more knowledge about the weather to recognize that isolated summer storms were a fact of life, yet avoidable.

The point is, learning to fly in actual IMC didn't just allow me to fly in actual IMC, but it gave me FAR more confidence to fly VFR safely on VFR days that weren't clear and a million.

 

[denverpilot]

I'm thinking these small scattered storms are doomed to mess up my Xcountry planning. Knowing my luck I will go around one storm and get stuck inside a bunch of them since i wont have onboard radar XM or stratus.

You think that stops after the training is over?

Go do it with experienced eyeballs in the right seat, and get some experience as to when to call it quits. And how to alter plans as things change.

"Always have an out."

 

[JasonM]

You think that stops after the training is over?

Go do it with experienced eyeballs in the right seat, and get some experience as to when to call it quits. And how to alter plans as things change.

"Always have an out."

Never thought it would be all sunshine with a touch of fairy tail dust later on , but holy shamoly, these storms wont stop coming. next 10 days forecast 50-60% Scattered T-Storms every single day. I was hoping to fly 2-3 times per week, but the past couple weeks have been once per week and this week so far was lucky enough to get .5 hours today before a storm hit the airport.

 

[RV10flyer]

Jason,

I am about 1.0 RV hr SW of you. We got a few TS passing close by today, bkn-ovc with low ceilings. Hang in there until Friday-Sunday and things should start improving. This is not normal weather patterns for this time of year for us. You and your instructor may be able to squeeze a short safe flight one morning this week.

 

[txflyer]

Yikes. I see posts saying fly under the ceilings, avoid the big dark blue areas, and weed your way through time obsolescent images with XM ...

A student pilot. Really?

 

[RV10flyer]

Yikes. I see posts saying fly under the ceilings, avoid the big dark blue areas, and weed your way through time obsolescent images with XM ...

A student pilot. Really?

The OP has a CFI and I bet he will be with him on any questionable wx flights. I also believe he will learn more about his own personal minimums while with his instructor. Note: Many of our posts mention CFI or instructor not solo.

 

[JasonM]

Jason,

I am about 1.0 RV hr SW of you. We got a few TS passing close by today, bkn-ovc with low ceilings. Hang in there until Friday-Sunday and things should start improving. This is not normal weather patterns for this time of year for us. You and your instructor may be able to squeeze a short safe flight one morning this week.

Thats good to hear. I was wondering if maybe this was normal and I just hadn't paid that much attention to the weather in the past. I'm going to keep my schedule planned, but I wont be pushing it since I will be on my own.

Yikes. I see posts saying fly under the ceilings, avoid the big dark blue areas, and weed your way through time obsolescent images with XM ...

A student pilot. Really?

Yeah, I will be on my own from now on. I wont be putting my self in that position. I was actually pretty nervous flying in the pattern knowing there was a storm about 15nm away. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving the airport with storms floating around just yet.

 

[TCABM]

... Whats the best approach to take with this type of forecast?

...

With absolutely no credit here, I would say that you need to think about not the next 10 days wx, but look at the wx that pertains to your next scheduled flight as everything else is irrelevant.

For example, tomorrow is mostly crappy with convective hail storms all across the state. You're not flying tomorrow so it s not a problem. You're flying the day after tomorrow when it'll be clear in the morning FEW in the early pm, and SCT by evening. Looks good to fly then fly.

By the same token the next day you're scheduled to fly looks iffy. Go ahead and plan the flight. If you're not comfortable taking off, don't. If you do, do. If the wx turns to crap while enr and you can't figure a way out, abort and report (to your IP, the FAA, ASARS, whoever you're required to report to). You'll be a better aviator for it.

 

[txflyer]

The OP has a CFI and I bet he will be with him on any questionable wx flights. I also believe he will learn more about his own personal minimums while with his instructor. Note: Many of our posts mention CFI or instructor not solo.

When in doubt, I always go back and read the first post. He said with and without a CFI.

I say train with SVT and Kryptonite if we have it, but the thread had morphology of doing it solo with XM and visual avoidance.

My SNL segway into my misunderstanding brain was, he shouldn't be out there doing it solo at all with ISO's.

 

[denverpilot]

Almost everyone hit a patch of annoying weather at some point in their training that just won't seemingly stop long enough to go flying, or was always on the wrong days. T-storms, snowstorms, whatever.

Very few of us have "all-weather" aircraft. Even fewer should be up inside of "all weather".

Hang in there. The goofy patterns always break eventually.

 

[JasonM]

Looks like a break in the weather this AM. Going to do a short X-country solo. May be a chance I have to deviate for some storms if things take longer than planned. I'll update you all later on.

 

[Warrior]

Looks like a break in the weather this AM. Going to do a short X-country solo. May be a chance I have to deviate for some storms if things take longer than planned. I'll update you all later on.

Thanks for the update. I am glad that you are finding a way to do a cross country solo.

I am thinking about you as I look at the weather from central Florida to Southwest Alabama. I am hoping to make that flight in the next few days and there have been a lot of thunderstorms in my part of the world lately too.

 

[JasonM]

Well the first leg went good. Weather moved in that was way beyond my comfort zone. I got to stick it out at that airport for 3 hours. I'm going to be a lot more caution from now on.

 

[Warrior]

Well the first leg went good. Weather moved in that was way beyond my comfort zone. I got to stick it out at that airport for 3 hours. I'm going to be a lot more caution from now on.

cool that the first leg went well.

 

[RV10flyer]

Was watching the weather around you today. Any details?

We had a thunderstorm hit yesterday at 5 PM that produced 1/4" hail with high winds and very heavy rain in between. We have one oak, two pines and two walnuts down on our property. They have been scattered enough with high enough ceilings to be safe for shorter AM flights here. Be careful and have fun.

 

[Graueradler]

No problem with isolated or scattered thunderstorms as long as they are not embedded. Flying when thunderstorms are embedded means that you can't see and avoid. I have heard it compared to walking in a rattle snake infested field with waist high grass.

 

[JasonM]

Was watching the weather around you today. Any details?

We had a thunderstorm hit yesterday at 5 PM that produced 1/4" hail with high winds and very heavy rain in between. We have one oak, two pines and two walnuts down on our property. They have been scattered enough with high enough ceilings to be safe for shorter AM flights here. Be careful and have fun.

The forecast showed 8000 - 12000 ceilings and no chance of rain or thunderstorms until 2pm. I called for a weather briefing and was told that 10am or later would be ideal. Well at 10am the big storms with their 1000 AGL ceiling rolled in out of nowhere on the radar and I had to divert back to the airport for 3 hours. but lesson learned. I think this weather has me pushing my limits when I need to step back and be more focused on my safety.

 

[RV10flyer]

I took a very short flight after PP cert. at 1 PM. It appeared fine on radar an hour before takeoff. It was very hot and humid with 5,000' OVC. 15 minutes into the flight, columns of heavy rain appeared all around at the same time with dust blowing up. These were the type that hide from you in haze or overcast. I landed(was not pretty) with a TS just off the departure end and left the plane overnight. I took the courtesy car home one hour away and went back the next day to fly the rental 172 back. Nobody said a word(to me anyway). After that I started studying weather a lot more and purchased a G496 w/XM wx. The TS so far this week here are visible from 20-30 miles away on the ground. Enjoy, and yes safety first always.

 

[Jaybird180]

No problem with isolated or scattered thunderstorms as long as they are not embedded. Flying when thunderstorms are embedded means that you can't see and avoid. I have heard it compared to walking in a rattle snake infested field with waist high grass.

Not relevant for the OP

 

[Hobobiker]

Not being a CFI or DPE I may be totally off base here, but I thought that the PTS requires the student to be familiar with the use of everything the plane that is being flown has. I was also under the impression that if there is GPS in the plane its use can and will be tested during the checkride.

Now do not get me wrong, I feel as strongly as the next guy about the importance of dead reckoning, and pilotage, and utilize this on every flight, but I do not ever recall reading anyplace that said that student pilots cannot not use GPS.

Just adding perspective from a current student with about 23 hours getting ready for my long solo xc. When I did the trip with my CFI the GPS was blocked and I had to navigate it by pilotage and dead reckoning, using my chart and the notations I had made in my flight planning. That said, when I do it solo I am free to use every available resource in the plane and over the radios to ensure that I make a safe, successful trip.

To the OP, I feel your pain and I've been waiting out thunderstorms for almost two weeks now trying to schedule my trip!