Island Airways -Beaver Island crash

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Hmm not much information yet on this one. How was the weather that day? I know later in the evening there were some snow showers all over MI but don't know around 1-2pm. There are no published approaches into Welke. Only a GPS approach into nearby KSJX. Weather often low clouds and foggy there this time of year. Separate unrelated concern for both island airlines: Both often fly below 2000 on that route over the water. Is it to save fuel and/or not enough time to climb to a safer altitude since its such a short hop? I usually cruise in at 8500 or more and start my descent to make the airport in case of engine out over water...granted from southern Michigan lots of time to get that alt.
 
Wow, how sad. I flew right seat in one of those birds once. How sad
 
New England Air uses a fleet of Britten-Norman Islanders to shuttle passengers and freight from Westerly, RI, to Block Island, RI, and I've always been impressed by how many passengers (up to 10 including the pilot) and how much baggage they can carry. Also, the landing flaps setting is 56 degrees of flaps, which allows that plane to make steep and relatively slow approaches.

The news article linked above said this was the 1:30 pm flight to Beaver Island, so (after I confirmed that Beaver Island is in the Eastern time zone) this would have occurred probably around 1845 UTC on 13 November. The archived METAR reports for KSJX show some gusty winds and occasional light snow around that time. (I would assume they were trying to land on paved Rwy 27 at KSJX (4,299 feet), although there is also a 3,278-foot grass Rwy 32).

(I have landed on Block while a passenger on New England Air in conditions similar to those listed below, and the plane has always seemed pretty stable even in high/gusty/cross winds).

SA 13/11/2021 19:55->
METAR KSJX 131955Z AUTO 34008KT 10SM SCT022 BKN037 OVC060 04/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00400008=
SA 13/11/2021 19:35->
METAR KSJX 131935Z AUTO 31006G15KT 10SM SCT008 SCT023 BKN033 04/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00400000=
SA 13/11/2021 19:15->
METAR KSJX 131915Z AUTO 31005G16KT 4SM -SN SCT007 SCT018 BKN044 03/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00290013=
SA 13/11/2021 18:55->
METAR KSJX 131855Z AUTO 32011G20KT 10SM SCT020 SCT030 SCT038 04/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00410001=
SA 13/11/2021 18:35->
METAR KSJX 131835Z AUTO 33010G19KT 5SM -SN SCT018 SCT022 BKN028 03/00 A2974 RMK AO2 T00330003=
SA 13/11/2021 18:15->
METAR KSJX 131815Z AUTO 32011G15KT 10SM SCT013 SCT019 BKN037 05/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00510003=
SA 13/11/2021 17:55->
METAR KSJX 131755Z AUTO 30007G18KT 5SM -RA SCT013 BKN019 OVC034 04/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00380013 10052 20035=
 
ldhilljr13 said:
New England Air uses a fleet of Britten-Norman Islanders to shuttle passengers and freight from Westerly, RI, to Block Island, RI, and I've always been impressed by how many passengers (up to 10 including the pilot) and how much baggage they can carry. Also, the landing flaps setting is 56 degrees of flaps, which allows that plane to make steep and relatively slow approaches.

The news article linked above said this was the 1:30 pm flight to Beaver Island, so (after I confirmed that Beaver Island is in the Eastern time zone) this would have occurred probably around 1845 UTC on 13 November. The archived METAR reports for KSJX show some gusty winds and occasional light snow around that time. (I would assume they were trying to land on paved Rwy 27 at KSJX (4,299 feet), although there is also a 3,278-foot grass Rwy 32).

(I have landed on Block while a passenger on New England Air in conditions similar to those listed below, and the plane has always seemed pretty stable even in high/gusty/cross winds).

SA 13/11/2021 19:55->
METAR KSJX 131955Z AUTO 34008KT 10SM SCT022 BKN037 OVC060 04/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00400008=
SA 13/11/2021 19:35->
METAR KSJX 131935Z AUTO 31006G15KT 10SM SCT008 SCT023 BKN033 04/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00400000=
SA 13/11/2021 19:15->
METAR KSJX 131915Z AUTO 31005G16KT 4SM -SN SCT007 SCT018 BKN044 03/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00290013=
SA 13/11/2021 18:55->
METAR KSJX 131855Z AUTO 32011G20KT 10SM SCT020 SCT030 SCT038 04/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00410001=
SA 13/11/2021 18:35->
METAR KSJX 131835Z AUTO 33010G19KT 5SM -SN SCT018 SCT022 BKN028 03/00 A2974 RMK AO2 T00330003=
SA 13/11/2021 18:15->
METAR KSJX 131815Z AUTO 32011G15KT 10SM SCT013 SCT019 BKN037 05/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00510003=
SA 13/11/2021 17:55->
METAR KSJX 131755Z AUTO 30007G18KT 5SM -RA SCT013 BKN019 OVC034 04/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00380013 10052 20035=
Click to expand...
they're an impressive and supremely rugged, if not somewhat ungainly looking, bird. There are some great videos on YouTube of Islanders and Trislanders pushing some very hard IMC in dubious conditions and austere airports. The Trislander I always thought was a cool little "mini DC10" of sorts..
 
Very sad, RIP, and a tough road ahead for the survivor.

A very beautiful area. Many, many, years ago I enjoyed a flight to and back from the island on an Aztec. Apparently the Piper had replaced a Cessna Bobcat, there were several framed photos of it in both terminals.
 
ldhilljr13 said:
New England Air uses a fleet of Britten-Norman Islanders to shuttle passengers and freight from Westerly, RI, to Block Island, RI, and I've always been impressed by how many passengers (up to 10 including the pilot) and how much baggage they can carry. Also, the landing flaps setting is 56 degrees of flaps, which allows that plane to make steep and relatively slow approaches.

The news article linked above said this was the 1:30 pm flight to Beaver Island, so (after I confirmed that Beaver Island is in the Eastern time zone) this would have occurred probably around 1845 UTC on 13 November. The archived METAR reports for KSJX show some gusty winds and occasional light snow around that time. (I would assume they were trying to land on paved Rwy 27 at KSJX (4,299 feet), although there is also a 3,278-foot grass Rwy 32).

(I have landed on Block while a passenger on New England Air in conditions similar to those listed below, and the plane has always seemed pretty stable even in high/gusty/cross winds).

SA 13/11/2021 19:55->
METAR KSJX 131955Z AUTO 34008KT 10SM SCT022 BKN037 OVC060 04/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00400008=
SA 13/11/2021 19:35->
METAR KSJX 131935Z AUTO 31006G15KT 10SM SCT008 SCT023 BKN033 04/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00400000=
SA 13/11/2021 19:15->
METAR KSJX 131915Z AUTO 31005G16KT 4SM -SN SCT007 SCT018 BKN044 03/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00290013=
SA 13/11/2021 18:55->
METAR KSJX 131855Z AUTO 32011G20KT 10SM SCT020 SCT030 SCT038 04/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00410001=
SA 13/11/2021 18:35->
METAR KSJX 131835Z AUTO 33010G19KT 5SM -SN SCT018 SCT022 BKN028 03/00 A2974 RMK AO2 T00330003=
SA 13/11/2021 18:15->
METAR KSJX 131815Z AUTO 32011G15KT 10SM SCT013 SCT019 BKN037 05/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00510003=
SA 13/11/2021 17:55->
METAR KSJX 131755Z AUTO 30007G18KT 5SM -RA SCT013 BKN019 OVC034 04/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00380013 10052 20035=
Click to expand...
Man I had to look it up. Those planes can really move the meat with a pair of O-540’s.
 
ldhilljr13 said:
The news article linked above said this was the 1:30 pm flight to Beaver Island, so (after I confirmed that Beaver Island is in the Eastern time zone) this would have occurred probably around 1845 UTC on 13 November. The archived METAR reports for KSJX show some gusty winds and occasional light snow around that time. (I would assume they were trying to land on paved Rwy 27 at KSJX (4,299 feet), although there is also a 3,278-foot grass Rwy 32).
=
Click to expand...

Actually they typically use the 2500 foot long 30 foot wide runway at Welke field. I am too chicken to land a Saratoga there. Road and trees line west end of the runway...not to mention the 30 foot wide runway that goes up and down and has a bump at the grass field intersection. However unlike me, those guys are pros and land these bigger birds there all the time. They know what they are doing and do it often. They know the obstacles and visual references.
FYI: There is another flight operation that flies out of KSJX the much bigger airfield 3 miles away. Jets also land at KSJX and there is a GPS approach.
But poor visibility strong gusty winds can get the best of us. or Engine out?..who the heck knows at this point. Bless their souls and donate at the go fund me page.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/prayers-for-perdues
 
Read an article about how the father bear hugged his daughter just before or during. That tells me something was amiss. Pure speculation. Prayers for the families
 
Flying Doc said:
Actually they typically use the 2500 foot long 30 foot wide runway at Welke field. I am too chicken to land a Saratoga there. Road and trees line west end of the runway...not to mention the 30 foot wide runway that goes up and down and has a bump at the grass field intersection.
Click to expand...

Ah -- that's very interesting to know, and certainly seems like it would be a more challenging place to land. Although Block Island has a relatively short runway (2,500'), it is 100' wide and sits perched up on a hill so that it's a relatively obstacle-free approach (or departure) from either end.
 
I am the brother of Kate one of the deceased.

My family is from charlevoix and we have rode on island airways for the past 30 years with probably hundreds of flights all together.

The pilot that was flying was new and had just started for them in april for weekends. He was a local middle school teacher and aviation enthusiasts. My understanding was this was his first commercial job.

I have been to the island and talked to to the deupty sherif who was at the scene.

The crash was witnessed. They had radioed in 10 min out and 1 to 2 min out that everything was on track. The were on line with approach. At start of run way the left wing dipped and they went nose down from about 20 feet up.

People were on scene with in 30 seconds. Pilot was still talking and little girl was alive, but my sister, her husband, and other passenger were never conscious or had a pulse. Their dogs also died on impact.

The weather was fair. It had sleeted lightly earlier in day but the plane had already done one trip out and back. Temp was 39 at the time. Wind was under 15 from northwest gusts up to 25 but nothing unusual. Vis was good > 5 miles. The cost guard heli was already up in grand traverse bay and they were on scene in less then 10 minutes. They had no problems getting in and out.

I am sorry to all the families involved. It has been very difficult.

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Joshua-

I am so sorry for your loss.....

Thank you for providing details, so that others may learn from this tragedy.
 
I concur; very sorry for your loss, Joshua.
 
I haven't words for your loss. My sister passed away some time ago, so I have a clue what you're going through. I hope you and your family can find some peace in this horrible time.
 
Thank you for that information Joshua. Very sorry for your loss.
 
Joshua Leese said:
I am the brother of Kate one of the deceased.

My family is from charlevoix and we have rode on island airways for the past 30 years with probably hundreds of flights all together.

The pilot that was flying was new and had just started for them in april for weekends. He was a local middle school teacher and aviation enthusiasts. My understanding was this was his first commercial job.

I have been to the island and talked to to the deupty sherif who was at the scene.

The crash was witnessed. They had radioed in 10 min out and 1 to 2 min out that everything was on track. The were on line with approach. At start of run way the left wing dipped and they went nose down from about 20 feet up.

People were on scene with in 30 seconds. Pilot was still talking and little girl was alive, but my sister, her husband, and other passenger were never conscious or had a pulse. Their dogs also died on impact.

The weather was fair. It had sleeted lightly earlier in day but the plane had already done one trip out and back. Temp was 39 at the time. Wind was under 15 from northwest gusts up to 25 but nothing unusual. Vis was good > 5 miles. The cost guard heli was already up in grand traverse bay and they were on scene in less then 10 minutes. They had no problems getting in and out.

I am sorry to all the families involved. It has been very difficult.

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No words for all the loss, but thank you for the update.
 
That was a tough read Joshua. My heart aches for your family and others. We all appreciate your insight to try to make us better pilots.
 
Thank you for sharing. Best wishes for the tough times ahead. Your sister and her companion seemed like great people and not only a huge loss to you and your family but also the BI community.

Thanks again for posting here. if there is a Go Fund Me page let us know.
 
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Joshua Leese said:
I am the brother of Kate one of the deceased.

My family is from charlevoix and we have rode on island airways for the past 30 years with probably hundreds of flights all together.

The pilot that was flying was new and had just started for them in april for weekends. He was a local middle school teacher and aviation enthusiasts. My understanding was this was his first commercial job.

I have been to the island and talked to to the deupty sherif who was at the scene.

The crash was witnessed. They had radioed in 10 min out and 1 to 2 min out that everything was on track. The were on line with approach. At start of run way the left wing dipped and they went nose down from about 20 feet up.

People were on scene with in 30 seconds. Pilot was still talking and little girl was alive, but my sister, her husband, and other passenger were never conscious or had a pulse. Their dogs also died on impact.

The weather was fair. It had sleeted lightly earlier in day but the plane had already done one trip out and back. Temp was 39 at the time. Wind was under 15 from northwest gusts up to 25 but nothing unusual. Vis was good > 5 miles. The cost guard heli was already up in grand traverse bay and they were on scene in less then 10 minutes. They had no problems getting in and out.

I am sorry to all the families involved. It has been very difficult.

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I am incredibly sorry for your loss and can't imagine what you must be going through. Your post is appreciated
 
Joshua, thoughts and prayers are with you during this impossibly difficult time.
 
Joshua as you can tell from discussions here,

We often discuss plane accidents at POA, often without much information. We do so to learn from the bits and pieces we can put together. Its speculation at best but it takes the NTSB 2 years to tell us what happened and often they do not even travel to a crash site. Pilots like to get an idea faster in order to take corrective action for own flying. Mostly..and I speak for me...to learn from and avoid making similar mistakes(that we are all prone to).

Based on the information you provided, a wing dipping in slow landing configuration, on final approach...can mean it stalled(lost ability to fly) perhaps due to changing wind gusts and slow approach speed...or unfortunate wind shear pushing plane down. All speculation. I had my wing do that in windless conditions, near ground and it was scary, definitely a stall. In that case it was my fault. Heavy plane and too slow a speed. I applied full power for go around and it(wing) recovered immediately...but clearly I remember the incident, broke a sweat and learned/walked away from it.

I added this here as I imagine you are looking for answers, as we all are. Whenever there is an accident in the aviation community we all hurt. Again may they RIP and let us know if there is anything this community can do.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/11/britten-norman-bn-2a-islander-n866ja.html
 
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Thank you all for the support.

NTSB investigator called yesterday and said 2 to 6 weeks for prelim fact report. 18 to 24 months for factual report and 24 to 30 months before final report with causation.
 
Joshua Leese said:
Thank you all for the support.

NTSB investigator called yesterday and said 2 to 6 weeks for prelim fact report. 18 to 24 months for factual report and 24 to 30 months before final report with causation.
Click to expand...

My sincerest condolences to you and your family. I hope in due time your grief will be assuaged, and the good memories of your sister and brother-in-law will stay with you always.
 
Prelim report here.
 

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