Is Tony Stewart a murderer??
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MikeELP
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Mike Bruening
The title of the thread (Is Tony Stewart a Murderer?) and the question in the poll (Is Tony Stewart repsonsible for this?) are kinda two different things.
Murder? Doubtful there will be any criminal prosecution.
Repsonsible for the death? I think you can bet the farm that there will be a mega-million dollar civil suit from the family for wrongful death.
JMHO,
Mike
Murder? Doubtful there will be any criminal prosecution.
Repsonsible for the death? I think you can bet the farm that there will be a mega-million dollar civil suit from the family for wrongful death.
JMHO,
Mike
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
And if the planet caught fire, we could collectively go out and whiz on it to put it out, and if the solar system collapsed into the sun, we could hang out a solar sail and get away from it, and if the sun went out, we could light a coleman gas heater and stay warm, and if the gas in the heater ran out, we could......
Don't recall where I said I would hit someone walking on the race track, so I don't get why you are quoting me? Did I say he was guilty of homicide? Here, let me check. Nope, I didn't. Said just the opposite. But I agree - the only one who will ever know for sure is Stewart.
Jury could go either way as I see it. Depends on the prosecutor how much this will hurt.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think there will be a settlement, just because he has deep pockets and it'll be less painful for all involved just to make it go away. Criminal charges and a conviction? It's possible, but even if charges are brought, I'm not so sure a jury will buy it. But stranger things have happened.
Now, if there is some scanner recording of Stewart on the radio telling his crew, "Watch THIS!" just before the hit...
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We also haven't seen all the video angles either. I doubt it would get a criminal prosecution, but as ou say, stranger things have happened.
Gary F
Final Approach
Barring a confession or Vulcan mind meld it is likely only one person will ever know the truth. Without something much more convincing than that video a conviction should be impossible.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I saw the news this morning, and I thought I heard the local sheriff asking for anybody with other video of the accident to send it in.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
The only one who can answer this question is Tony Stewart. It will be interesting to see if there is any background between these two, but the question above is impossible to answer now although I'd like to give Stewart the benefit of the doubt.
I read in the comments that he fish tailed into him, but it looks to me like the rear end goes away from him like he's trying to avoid him.
I'm sorry he lost his life and not trying to make light of the situation, but my first thought of seeing him running out on the track at night in a black racing suit made me think of this:
http://vimeo.com/77732818
R.I.P.
I'm sorry he lost his life and not trying to make light of the situation, but my first thought of seeing him running out on the track at night in a black racing suit made me think of this:
http://vimeo.com/77732818
R.I.P.
N747JB
Final Approach
I don't watch racing much anymore, maybe the last 20 laps of a NASCAR race, but that's about it. Personally, I don't think the NASCAR star drivers should be racing sprint cars or trucks or whatever they call the Saturday races these days. This is where the young kids learn to drive and hopefully win enough money to race again next week. Kind of like Tom Brady playing for a college team on Saturdays, makes it tough for a 21 year old college student to get much playing time. 
That being said, I think Tony Stewart is a hot head and it appears to my untrained eye that he accellerated and slid into this kid. I seriously doubt he meant to hit or injure him, but he did. I don't think he will be charged, I do think there will be a large settlement and Tony may not be as popular with sponsors as he was last week.
Kind of like Tom Brady playing for a college team on Saturdays, makes it tough for a 21 year old college student to get much playing time. That being said, I think Tony Stewart is a hot head and it appears to my untrained eye that he accellerated and slid into this kid. I seriously doubt he meant to hit or injure him, but he did. I don't think he will be charged, I do think there will be a large settlement and Tony may not be as popular with sponsors as he was last week.
I think your probably right. I just can't tell for sure if he hit the gas or dumped the clutch on a downshift. Something sounded strange there.
FormerHangie
En-Route
Sprint cars are not equipped with a shiftable transmission. They're either in gear or not. It's extremely unlikely that a driver would disconnect the gears while on the track.
Gary F
Final Approach
The British press has an article covering the times Stewart has injured people on the track. There may be a pattern here.
For more than a decade, he has been seen plowing down pit crew members, threatening to run fellow competitors off the track, shoving drivers in anger and even throwing his helmet at a car. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...warts-history-rage-charges-not-ruled-out.html
For more than a decade, he has been seen plowing down pit crew members, threatening to run fellow competitors off the track, shoving drivers in anger and even throwing his helmet at a car. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...warts-history-rage-charges-not-ruled-out.html
pete480
Pre-takeoff checklist
This idiot runs out onto a track full of race cars at night and people are surprised he was hit? If he wasn't trying to act tough, he'd be alive.
I don't think murder is the correct crime, as that requires intent to kill or commit serious bodily injury resulting in death. (state laws may very on the exact definition, and this leaves aside any charge of felony-murder.) However, it could certainly be manslaughter if he intended to do something that created a fear of injury, and it resulted in death. I think the most that anyone could really claim is that he tried to scare the kid into thinking he might get hit, and it went very wrong. Intentionally creating a fear of battery would generally support the intent element of a manslaughter charge. I suppose he might have been trying to just startle him with a sudden loud noise from the engine rather than trying to drive scarily close to him; that would be a little more grey. I bet there will be a lot of law school exams that are inspired by this set of facts in the next 10-20 years because there are so many issues to spot here.
Gary F
Final Approach
Young hothead on foot mixes it up with old hothead driving sprint car with predictable results.
Nope.
FormerHangie
En-Route
I've reviewed that video about 15 times. Firstoff, the incident that started it all was nothing out of the ordinary. Stewart got a run under Ward, was inside and was going faster, drifted up and hit Ward's front tire with his rear. Ward was beat into the corner and should have let Stewart go. The comes the confrontation. I had to start and stop the video a number of times to check, but I don't see any evidence of Tony trying to throw the racing equivalent of a brushback pitch prior to his car's collision with Ward. The first time I see anything abrupt looking was when Stewart's rear wheel hit Ward's body. That did cause the car to jerk.
I have never driven a sprint car, I have seen exactly one sprint car race. I do have a number of years of sports car racing experience, including five seasons of open wheel racing. If you ever get a chance to see a sprint car race, the first thing your notice is how fast they are. They are "I can't believe how fast they are!" fast. The second thing you'll notice is that they corner in a powerslide, and most of the time the front wheels are turned away from the turn, not into it. This is what they they are optimized for, making very high speed turns of a moderate radius while in a powerslide. Like I said, I haven't driven one, but I have a fair bit of experience in a formula car, and I can tell you a lower speeds there's a little bit of a tendency for the car to follow irregularities in the pavement. I can imagine that the sprint car isn't optimized to make sudden directional changes at moderate speeds, it's not usually something the car needs to do.
Go back to the video clip, put it on full screen, and use the pause/start button. Once Ward had climbed out, note when he starts walking down towards the racing line. There's about 1.3 seconds between when the blue car passed Ward and when Stewart's car impacted Ward. That's probably about how long Stewart could have possibly have seen Ward. Since Stewart had no reasonable expectation that someone would be walking on the open part of the track, there's no guarantee that Stewart did see him that far ahead of the collision. Now go back and try to time how long you see Stewart's car in the frame before the collision. I tried, but my fingers don't work that fast. I don't know how anyone can pretend to pass judgement on Stewart on the basis of that video.
To me, it looks like Ward came down towards the middle of the track and misjudged where Stewart's car was going to track around the corner. It also looks to me as if Stewart tried to avoid Ward, but was unable. I also think that people are attributing that engine noise to Stewart's car, but I didn't see any evidence that Stewart's car accelerated, and with a sprint car, if someone hit the throttle that hard while the car was traveling that slowly, you'd notice that much throttle opening in the attitude of the car.
I have never driven a sprint car, I have seen exactly one sprint car race. I do have a number of years of sports car racing experience, including five seasons of open wheel racing. If you ever get a chance to see a sprint car race, the first thing your notice is how fast they are. They are "I can't believe how fast they are!" fast. The second thing you'll notice is that they corner in a powerslide, and most of the time the front wheels are turned away from the turn, not into it. This is what they they are optimized for, making very high speed turns of a moderate radius while in a powerslide. Like I said, I haven't driven one, but I have a fair bit of experience in a formula car, and I can tell you a lower speeds there's a little bit of a tendency for the car to follow irregularities in the pavement. I can imagine that the sprint car isn't optimized to make sudden directional changes at moderate speeds, it's not usually something the car needs to do.
Go back to the video clip, put it on full screen, and use the pause/start button. Once Ward had climbed out, note when he starts walking down towards the racing line. There's about 1.3 seconds between when the blue car passed Ward and when Stewart's car impacted Ward. That's probably about how long Stewart could have possibly have seen Ward. Since Stewart had no reasonable expectation that someone would be walking on the open part of the track, there's no guarantee that Stewart did see him that far ahead of the collision. Now go back and try to time how long you see Stewart's car in the frame before the collision. I tried, but my fingers don't work that fast. I don't know how anyone can pretend to pass judgement on Stewart on the basis of that video.
To me, it looks like Ward came down towards the middle of the track and misjudged where Stewart's car was going to track around the corner. It also looks to me as if Stewart tried to avoid Ward, but was unable. I also think that people are attributing that engine noise to Stewart's car, but I didn't see any evidence that Stewart's car accelerated, and with a sprint car, if someone hit the throttle that hard while the car was traveling that slowly, you'd notice that much throttle opening in the attitude of the car.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
I didn't see any evidence in that video that would support the premise that Stewart took Ward out. They rubbed...rubbing happens.
That said, I haven't been a NASCAR fan in thirty years, even though I did a bit of dirt tracking back in high school. I just don't understand the allure (for adults) just like it don't understand the allure of boxing, football, MMA, etc.
It's extremely sad someone died. Sadder yet is that it'll likely be a boost for the "sport".
That said, I haven't been a NASCAR fan in thirty years, even though I did a bit of dirt tracking back in high school. I just don't understand the allure (for adults) just like it don't understand the allure of boxing, football, MMA, etc.
It's extremely sad someone died. Sadder yet is that it'll likely be a boost for the "sport".
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1600vw
Pattern Altitude
Racing 101. Never leave your car unless your car is burning. Then you exit the track ASAP.
Tony
Tony
Capt.Crash'n'Burn
Cleared for Takeoff
Luvrv8
Line Up and Wait
There were a few questions others asked to the posters, let me answer a couple first. Yes, I have raced a sprint car. Yes, I have worn a HANS device. I have been at many dirt races with Tony racing. I have seen him jump out of a car after a incident, but again I have seen most drivers do it, I have done it a few times. You race wheel to wheel lap after lap and your heart rate is up, these things happen. Do I think Tony tried to kill him, no. My personal opinion is he was going to pepper him with dirt from the right rear, with Tony going up and the other driver walking down they just met. I guess it's up to the power to be's to figure out if a crime was committed.
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Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
It will be the tracks insurance company that will foot the biggest part of the bill.
Doggtyred
En-Route
The most proximate cause of dumbdumb getting run over was getting out of his car on a hot track, and charging a moving car.
Even as a kid I learned never play in traffic.
Even as a kid I learned never play in traffic.
Doggtyred
En-Route
I see the opposite...he was trying to get around a maniac storming around on the track. Assumption of risk on the pedestrian's part the minute he left his car.
It's all part of the dikc-measuring contest that young guys play all the time. I've been intimidated on the track when I first started by getting bumped for no cause. They just want to let you know who's the boss at this track, and don't get in the way, you miserable pud-knocker.
Since I was also a crew-dog getting the car ready, and had to fix the car if I broke it, I was pretty careful about bumping and grinding with other cars on the track. It's considered bad form for a back-marker, or slower car to get involved with the Big Boys(sic - Stewart), and I would guess that this is what Stewart was doing on this track, this night before the crash. He was moving other cars out of the way with his front bumper, and got a bit too aggressive with one move, which caused all the heartburn.
I don't know about this kid, but likely he had a lot of his own money, and family time and energy wrapped up in his car, and for it to be damaged by Stewart is pretty galling. But - you can take it to the race steward, or track officials after the race and ask for sanctions or disqualification.
There is about a 0.000001% chance that Stewart would be sanctioned for a bump and run, and an even less chance he would be disqualified. That's what the deal is when you are a Big Dog, it puts butts in the seats, and beer sales pay for the race officials, so if this small track was to sanction him, Stewart would likely never come back, and tell his other buddies that the track was 'unfriendly' and they would never get any names to race there again.
What I would have done, is to limp back to the pits, fix my car enough that it would be let back in the race, and then ram Stewart on his next pass. Sure, I'd get disqualified, and they might even suspend my driver's card for a while - but, Stewart would know who I was, and not because of the obit.
John221us
En-Route
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47PILOT
Pre-takeoff checklist
And if the planet caught fire, we could collectively go out and whiz on it to put it out, and if the solar system collapsed into the sun, we could hang out a solar sail and get away from it, and if the sun went out, we could light a coleman gas heater and stay warm, and if the gas in the heater ran out, we could......
Don't recall where I said I would hit someone walking on the race track, so I don't get why you are quoting me? Did I say he was guilty of homicide? Here, let me check. Nope, I didn't. Said just the opposite. But I agree - the only one who will ever know for sure is Stewart.
hear is the problem. My scenario is based on fact and has happen in real life. Your scenarios…….. well, not so much.
What you said was that you would set out to intentionally ram stewarts car with the intent to damage his car. That is something that happens almost every sat. night at local tracks across the country and 99.99999% of the time thats where it ends. Hell, Im guilty of doing this more times than i can remember. But if things don't go as you plan and you actually hurt someone, you better get ready for all hell to brake loose. And at that point you deserve whatever "attention" you get.
For anything criminal to happen to stewart, you would have to prove that he saw the guy. That would be tough to do.
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
Gosh, I have to say - you're just confusing me. You accuse me of trying to his someone walking on the track. Don't know where that came from. Next, you talk about doing exactly what I wrote, and I admit, I've given a little nudge now and then to let a slower driver know I would please like to have some more room on the entry to turn 3 so he should maybe just move over a bit.
I guess it's time for the cure-all.
Whatev.
47PILOT
Pre-takeoff checklist
Where did i say that???
MooneyDriver78
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Tom
Some people say he hit the throttle and his car went sideways, I see the car got sideways AFTER he gets hit...
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Regardless, if some idiot is out on the track---and close enough to you that they get stuck by your rear tire just because you gun the throttle and fishtail a bit---then they may just be a wee bit too close maybe?
Oh, and whoever said that once drivers make it to the big leagues they should stay out of the little leagues, I agree to a majority extent. Except for the real up and comers, then there is one advantage to competing against the pros; if you do well and 2nd against them, you will get more recognition than if you beat Billy Bob Jim John for the checkered. I think that for major lower class events having some big names in the fray is a good thing, but for your average Saturday night local races, they don't belong there.
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timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
So pilots who fly the big iron should sell their single engine planes and never again wander outside of the class bravo environment to have a little fun.
Got it.
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There is a difference in case you didn't notice. GA is not a competitive sport, an airline pilot isn't going to screw up the rankings of GA pilots building time looking for a flying job. Even as I said after the quote, let them have some fun in Sprint cars if they want at the Regional levels. But otherwise, yeah, they have their own show, they don't need to be big fish in small pond on other people's show. They can have just as much fun in a sprint car outside sanctioned competition as well. Heck, if they really wanted, they could do a "Stars in Sprints" series and make a few more million having the pros pitted against each other in Sprint cars.