Is this employer a Jerk?

Captain

Captain

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Okay. So I have gotten paid every payday. But,

I am cut an actual paycheck. Piece of paper type. The first one I deposited on payday Friday and my bank (Bank of America) didn't release the funds to me until the following Thursday citing that this issuer has had a history of bounced checks.

So, the next payday I take the check to their bank to cash. I'm there for 45 minutes while they phaf about on the phone. I hear them say 'Insufficient funds' from behind the glass. Eventually the money gets transferred and I get paid. 45 minutes waiting.

Now it's been 3 paydays in a row. I've always walked out with my cash...but have always been rejected at the window stating 'insufficient funds'. Then calls get made and money is transferred and I get paid.

I'm told by my company that they keep the money in an interest bearing account until it's needed. My point is that the second they write the check it's 'needed'. But payday after payday nothing changes and I walk in and get news of a bounced check. My chief pilot scheduled an appointment for me with a guy in accounting to work this out. I blew it off as I can't see me being non-irate telling an accounting puke the simple rule that 'when you write a check you HAVE to have the money available on THAT account'. Seems too elementary for me, a stupid pilot, to explain to him. I'm sure it would end up in me screaming at him or worse.

Aren't there laws requiring you to have funds available on the account that you write a check on? Can I charge them some sort of bounced check fee to cover my time at the bank while calls are made and funds transferred?

What say you...the smart masses? Thanks.

Captain.
 
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As one of those "accounting pukes" I would say that your company is giving you the run around. Not sure the size of your company, but at the mid sized company where I work the funds are transferred to the payroll account the day the checks are sent. By the time the checks are in your hand the funds should be available. Since your company is writing/printing your check I assume they are relatively small. Still no excuse, to me your employees are the number one priority and they should not have to jump through hoops to get money they have earned.

In my opinion they are either to lazy to transfer the funds, or they have a cash flow problem. If the latter, then it won't be long before you will be looking for another employer.
 
So they claim to be waiting so that their money can stay a little longer in an Interest earning account?

That might have made sense thirty years ago, but not now.

Short term interest rates are so extremely low, they probably aren't collecting more than a dime for a week's interest on your paycheck.

Do you see anything else that hints of insolvency?
 
Generally speaking, your paycheck should be issued in "present funds." Law varies by state. The avenue for correction of this issue would be your state's employment commission.

Now, if you had an appointment with the accounting guy to cover this, you should have kept it for the simple purpose of telling them your expectation that your checks not bounce.
 
SCCutler said:
Generally speaking, your paycheck should be issued in "present funds." Law varies by state. The avenue for correction of this issue would be your state's employment commission.

Now, if you had an appointment with the accounting guy to cover this, you should have kept it for the simple purpose of telling them your expectation that your checks not bounce.
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That seems so obvious I'd feel silly saying it.
 
NoHeat said:
So they claim to be waiting so that their money can stay a little longer in an Interest earning account?

That might have made sense thirty years ago, but not now.

Short term interest rates are so extremely low, they probably aren't collecting more than a dime for a week's interest on your paycheck.

Do you see anything else that hints of insolvency?
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Ummmm, no....ummmm, yeah....everything...is well....great.
 
Captain said:
That seems so obvious I'd feel silly saying it.
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Yeah, makes sense - and yet, if the time comes that you feel motivated to complain to the state, the first question may be, "What did your employer tell you when you asked about it?"

You can bet they'd tell the investigator, "We had no idea there was a problem. We are shocked that our valued employees had difficulty cashing their checks!"
 
SCCutler said:
Yeah, makes sense - and yet, if the time comes that you feel motivated to complain to the state, the first question may be, "What did your employer tell you when you asked about it?"

You can bet they'd tell the investigator, "We had no idea there was a problem. We are shocked that our valued employees had difficulty cashing their checks!"
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Yeah...okay, good point. I'll follow up.
 
Are you the only employee having this problem? Why not ask him if he has any trouble with his paycheck?

My wife is a CPA and 'the accounting puke' for a family-owned business. Twice a month she pulls her hair out juggling funds around to ensure payroll checks don't bounce. The problem she has to deal with is the family members are basically incompetent business people. I have to constantly remind her to not do anything to turn me into a single parent for 5-20 yrs.
 
cowman said:
No direct deposit option I assume?
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My company is soooooo stupid.

They don't allow any pilot to be an 'employee' until the 90 day mark. Well, the end of the month the 90 days comes up in. They think, somehow, it's easier to fire a contract employee than a real life on-the-books employee.

So, first 90 days in 'contract' status and that means no direct deposit. No health or unemployment insurance either. I can live with that. What I want is my f'ing paycheck to clear.
 
BTW, I am sorry for the 'accounting puke' comment. I don't know the guy and I'm sure he's a swell guy. I'm ticked by the situation and didn't mean anything by it towards the profession of accountants.

Seriously, no offense. I do mean that. Sorry for the glibness in my previous post.
 
Van Johnston said:
Are you the only employee having this problem? Why not ask him if he has any trouble with his paycheck?

My wife is a CPA and 'the accounting puke' for a family-owned business. Twice a month she pulls her hair out juggling funds around to ensure payroll checks don't bounce. The problem she has to deal with is the family members are basically incompetent business people. I have to constantly remind her to not do anything to turn me into a single parent for 5-20 yrs.
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Every single pilot here has been through this. But as it lasts only 90 days I am currently the only pilot under this stupid rule and consequently, subject to bounced checks.
 
Captain said:
My company is soooooo stupid.

They don't allow any pilot to be an 'employee' until the 90 day mark. Well, the end of the month the 90 days comes up in. They think, somehow, it's easier to fire a contract employee than a real life on-the-books employee.

So, first 90 days in 'contract' status and that means no direct deposit. No health or unemployment insurance either. I can live with that. What I want is my f'ing paycheck to clear.
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Do the circumstances of your work change between the 90 days and after ? (do they decide where you fly to, how to do it and what uniform to wear ?)

It sounds like they are having cash-flow issues, once you decide to move on to a different employer, file a form SS-8 and make them pay their share of payroll tax. Wont make you many friends in the company, but you dont strike me as the type that is out to make friends ;-) .
 
No way I would put up with that. I would quit on the spot. If you're a corporate pilot, be sure to leave your boss stuck some place. If you're a charter pilot, leave the pax stuck someplace so they never will want to use that charter service again.
 
weilke said:
Do the circumstances of your work change between the 90 days and after ? (do they decide where you fly to, how to do it and what uniform to wear ?)

It sounds like they are having cash-flow issues, once you decide to move on to a different employer, file a form SS-8 and make them pay their share of payroll tax. Wont make you many friends in the company, but you dont strike me as the type that is out to make friends ;-) .
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No, nothing changes. Does this make a legal difference? I'm in Florida if that matters.
 
us AAirways said:
No way I would put up with that. I would quit on the spot. If you're a corporate pilot, be sure to leave your boss stuck some place. If you're a charter pilot, leave the pax stuck someplace so they never will want to use that charter service again.
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Great idea...except I have kids that enjoy food.
 
Captain said:
Every single pilot here has been through this. But as it lasts only 90 days I am currently the only pilot under this stupid rule and consequently, subject to bounced checks.
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No offense taken by the puke comment.

It's a wonder how they can get people to stay beyond 90 days, sounds like a pretty f'd up way to welcome a new employee. You have to let them know its not okay or they will continue (give em an inch)...

I would be embarrassed to have a track record of bouncing checks, IMO unacceptable.
 
First of all, sorry to hear about you and Tennille.

I wouldn't trust this employer as far as you can throw them. It won't be long before your paycheck actually bounces. Maybe promises that if you can wait you'll get paid more. Then you show up to an empty building. How established is the company? I'm guessing the owner is doing fine for himself? When we had a thin bank account we would forego our own paychecks to make sure our employees were paid first.
 
Captain said:
No, nothing changes. Does this make a legal difference? I'm in Florida if that matters.
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If after the 90 days your work circumstances dont change, you were most likely in a employee relationship with them for the first 90 days as well. If you look at the tests the IRS applies to decide whether you are contractor or employee, most likely it would be clear that you were an employee (the fact that you and they call it 'paycheck' sort of gives this away). They stiffed you on your benefits (which is something the state may care about) and they stiffed you on their share of payroll tax for that time period (which is something the IRS cares about). Now, if you like the job and are concerned about word getting around that you are a troublemaker, you may just have to eat it. If you dont care about those things, you may ask both the feds and the state to determine whether it was an episode of employment or contract work.
 
I don't think what they're doing is legal contract wise.

Are you flying their airplanes? Under their insurance?
Wearing a uniform they require you to wear?
Under their schedule?
Going only to their places?
Did you have to sign a contract saying you'd only work for them?

I'm on my iPad but iirc ups or maybe FedEx went through this and it was deemed their drivers were employees, not contractors. Depending on the state there is a set of criteria that makes you an employee and not a contractor.
 
Z06_Mir said:
I don't think what they're doing is legal contract wise.

Are you flying their airplanes? Under their insurance? YES
Wearing a uniform they require you to wear? YES
Under their schedule? YES
Going only to their places? YES
Did you have to sign a contract saying you'd only work for them? NO, well sort of. I'm pretty sure I signed a 'non-compete letter'

I'm on my iPad but iirc ups or maybe FedEx went through this and it was deemed their drivers were employees, not contractors. Depending on the state there is a set of criteria that makes you an employee and not a contractor.
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Does this help? Basically I'm looking for legal means that a written check MUST be funded. I'm thinking my 'contract status' might not be legal either now.
 
Captain said:
Does this help? Basically I'm looking for legal means that a written check MUST be funded. I'm thinking my 'contract status' might not be legal either now.
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Can you be paid with cashier's checks? Or cash?
 
Captain said:
Does this help? Basically I'm looking for legal means that a written check MUST be funded. I'm thinking my 'contract status' might not be legal either now.
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If you are on their schedule, it fails the IRS Independent Contractor test. As far as a check being funded, that has nothing to do with employment law, that's banking law, kiting any check is illegal.
 
48dodge said:
Can you be paid with cashier's checks? Or cash?
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It could be. I seriously doubt they'd do it. Hell, they can pay me in BitCoin for all I care. I just want to have access to MONEY on PAYDAY. Doesn't seem like a wild stretch to me. Simple concept if'n ya ask me.
 
Henning said:
If you are on their schedule, it fails the IRS Independent Contractor test. As far as a check being funded, that has nothing to do with employment law, that's banking law, kiting any check is illegal.
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Got a statute for that? Oh please tell me you have a statute...I live in Florida and that is in the United States of America.
 
Captain said:
Does this help? Basically I'm looking for legal means that a written check MUST be funded. I'm thinking my 'contract status' might not be legal either now.
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It's not legal, the contract part. Bad company. :nono: I'll see if I still have my employment law books to grab examples and statues.
 
Classic sign of cash flow problems, and poor business practices. When they start asking you to pay for fuel on your personal card...run.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
If done right, an operator can use someone as a contractor for a while and turn them employee at some other point in time. They just have to be careful to structure the relationship in a way that the difference is defensible. The factors the IRS (and most states) look at are Financial control, behavioral control and contractual relationship.

Couple of things that suggest you are a contractor:

- you get paid 'per trip' rather than a hourly wage
- you have to cover your training expenses (type, recurrent)
- you have autonomy on issues like what charts to use, weather sources,
- you have financial risk
- autonomy to hire helpers (e.g. determine who your SIC is and hire him/her)

Couple of things that suggest that you are a employee:

- you get paid by the hour
- employer pays for recurrent training
- you are told to wear a particular uniform
- you are told where to report for work, what charts to use, what weather source to consult
 
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