Is there such a thing as an investment airplane

Frogs97

Frogs97

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Frogs97
I know that if you buy low and sell high, anything can be an investment. But, ever since @pigpenracing mentioned he made money on a number of planes, I've been thinking and wondering if there is such a thing as a plane that, after purchase price, any upgrades, and fixed costs like storage,insurance, etc., that would still appreciate after some time? If so, what traits would one look for? Do they have to be very specialized acro planes like he mentioned? Might there be other combos to consider?

This is all a mental exercise, mind you. No extra money for ANY investments at the moment. But, this would be a helluva lot more fun than mutual funds!
 
They exist in hangar and airport cafe chatter and bragging for sure. But no one can find a REAL one :)

Sure, if you buy it really low, you can flip it. It's been done. Estate sale mostly. Heirs just want it out of their hair and take 50 cents on the dollar. (which is about what you need to make it work).
 
One carved from a block of Rhodium maybe.
 
If you have the skills and searching and marketing skills to buy low and sell high, sure.

Not so much the airplane as the person who does the buying and selling though.
 
Possible. But I'm in the very, very minority. I just sold the 150 in my pic. It was a raffle plane. $50 ticket, around $2000 for upgrades, asked for less than market, but still made a dang good profit.
 
The right plane on leaseback could certainly more than pay for itself letting you fly for "free" plus maybe turn a small profit. I'm talking like a nice reasonably priced well equipped IFR platform at a flight school for example which people rent for training and personal use. Have seen that work out well before.

All that said you're not going to make that much money and certainly when you consider the hassle of doing all that relative to traditional investments.

In general though it's mostly just about subsidizing your costs vs letting it sit idle when you're not using it (although there are plenty of other threads on the pluses and minuses of leaseback).
 
PC-12's have appreciated, so has MU-2's and Turbo Commanders compare to the lows a few years ago. I would argue a C185 is also not an aircraft that is likely to depreciate, nor is a Cub.

Other than that, no, planes are terrible investments. o_O
 
c180,185 and PA18s often hold very well.

Plus what memories have you have with your mutual funds? Made a ton with my 185 ;)
 
Yup.....be sure and buy high and sell low. I find it works best that way. :D
 
I have a friend who frequently buys and sells planes, and he nearly always makes a profit. If he sees a really good deal (and only if it's a really good deal) he grabs it, he has the cash on hand to act fast. Typically he flies it for a few months until he can sell it at the market value. I've seen him do it recently with a C-152, a C-172, and an R-44.
 
coloradobluesky said:
They exist in hangar and airport cafe chatter and bragging for sure. But no one can find a REAL one :)

Sure, if you buy it really low, you can flip it. It's been done. Estate sale mostly. Heirs just want it out of their hair and take 50 cents on the dollar. (which is about what you need to make it work).
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The ones I am aware of are the ones that have been sitting for 5-10 years with little or no use (aka often estate sales). Someone buys it flys it for 50-100 hours and then sells it. Basically they are taking the risk that the engine is still ok after sitting that long and prove that it is ok by flying it a while. I know a guy that has done 3 airplanes that way, the 3rd one bit him and he is getting the engine rebuilt.

Brian
 
First you have to buy them right! I have never lost money on a plane and about to buy number 14 next week. You can't pay top dollar and expect to come out ahead. There are deals that pop up. When they pop up you need cash in hand to do the deal. Usually the great deals are gone in a day! I have had good luck buying, flying and selling nice Aerobatic stuff.
 
I know a shop that buys distressed planes with good bones, makes them almost like new and resells them (I'm assuming at a profit).
 
Buy an Icon A5!

What, no? But it comes with an AOA indicator!
 
coloradobluesky said:
They exist in hangar and airport cafe chatter and bragging for sure. But no one can find a REAL one :)
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They do exist, or maybe more accurately, did exist. But it seems that the market for many used airplanes has deflated a bit. Some airplanes hold value better than others and savvy buyer who can do their own maintenance can make money. Is the ROI really worth it? That is up to the individual to decide.

If you really want to make money on investing, don't get into aviation. If you are looking for justification to convince a spouse - tread very carefully
 
Frogs97 said:
I know that if you buy low and sell high, anything can be an investment. But, ever since @pigpenracing mentioned he made money on a number of planes, I've been thinking and wondering if there is such a thing as a plane that, after purchase price, any upgrades, and fixed costs like storage,insurance, etc., that would still appreciate after some time? If so, what traits would one look for? Do they have to be very specialized acro planes like he mentioned? Might there be other combos to consider?

This is all a mental exercise, mind you. No extra money for ANY investments at the moment. But, this would be a helluva lot more fun than mutual funds!
Click to expand...
P51.
 
Dana said:
I have a friend who frequently buys and sells planes, and he nearly always makes a profit. If he sees a really good deal (and only if it's a really good deal) he grabs it, he has the cash on hand to act fast. Typically he flies it for a few months until he can sell it at the market value. I've seen him do it recently with a C-152, a C-172, and an R-44.
Click to expand...
He must live in a state with no sales or property tax.
 
The expense of hangaring pretty much negates any long term appreciation.
 
Besides the C180/185/195 and PA 18's, I think the more unusual airplanes have a shot at being money makers. Most airplanes are owned by people with a decent net worth and they are usually smart enough to know what their airplanes are worth. :rolleyes: Estate sales, forced sales, divorces etc are a good way to pick up great deals that can be flipped for a profit. I think Pigpen racing buys some more unusual types than basic 172's and if you know the market, it can be a source of income, if you don't, it can be the source of great out go!! :D
 
paflyer said:
P51.
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Not necessarily.

Even the rare warbirds are tough to make money as an 'investment'. Warbird market is a niche which means you might be waiting for a couple years for a buyer to come along and spend that kind of money. Rare airplanes tend to do better holding their value, but that doesn't always translate to a quick sell. I've been watching several $Million+ airplanes wait for a year or two to sell. Meanwhile, like someone else posted, your hangar/insurance/maintenance bills kill any profit you might make on the sales price.
 
I bought my F-8F for $33,000.00 in 1973. It recently sold for over $2 million.
Unfortunately, I sold it in 1974, never actually have set eyes on it.
sigh....
I'm sure the cost of keeping it all those years would have used up way more money than it ultimately sold for.
 
Shepherd said:
I bought my F-8F for $33,000.00 in 1973. It recently sold for over $2 million.
Unfortunately, I sold it in 1974, never actually have set eyes on it.
sigh....
I'm sure the cost of keeping it all those years would have used up way more money than it ultimately sold for.
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Exactly. Pull up a compound interest calculator and put the original investment plus annual contributions for over 40 years (i.e. Your operating/hangar/insurance...etc expenses) and you probably would have more than $2 Million today if you had simply invested the money. And that is using a rare example where the hull value really did see a significant appreciation.

But you wouldn't have anywhere near the fun....
 
Put it in a barn out on the farm is mine. Theres a bunch of ranches in Colorado where a guy does that. The one Im thinking of is on Highway 285 west of Denver. I think it still has a landing meadow.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Put it in a barn out on the farm is mine. Theres a bunch of ranches in Colorado where a guy does that. The one Im thinking of is on Highway 285 west of Denver. I think it still has a landing meadow.
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True. That solves the overhead issue. But you are still taking a huge gamble that the particular airplane you stashed is going to appreciate.

Not every airplane is going to increase in value like Shep's Bearcat.

The bigger point is, there are much safer/secure investments than airplanes.
 
ktup-flyer said:
Go back in time and buy a 170 or 180
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That would be a bad investment. Original 170s sold for around $4k. Now, god ones fetch $40-50k 65 years later.

Even if you perfectly preserved it in a museum for free, your initial investment would (at absolute best) only keep pace with inflation.

Not a very good ROI from an investment standpoint.
 
JB1842 said:
Possible. But I'm in the very, very minority. I just sold the 150 in my pic. It was a raffle plane. $50 ticket, around $2000 for upgrades, asked for less than market, but still made a dang good profit.
Click to expand...

Hope you win a second plane so you can really prove this theory!!!
 
I had a coworker tell me that there was money in being an airplane "broker." He said, you stick a For Sale sign in the window, ask for more than it's worth and write off costs on flights carrying passengers you "demonstrated" the airplane too. Sooner or later, someone would actually come along and pay you what you asked. I never could find out how to be recognized as a broker.
 
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