"Is there anything else you'd like to try?"

Cpt_Kirk

Cpt_Kirk

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Ted Striker
Hey all,

I know there are a few airline drivers here so I thought I'd throw this out before I posted on some other airline-oriented forums. I finished up a maneuver's val. today far ahead of schedule and after we were done checking the boxes, I got the question - "Is there anything else you'd like to try?"

I really couldn't come up with anything except for max. crosswind landings but hate wasted sim time. Does anyone have any personal favorite scenarios they have had in the past? Stuff that really works the mind? Something unusual or funky? Anything you've come up with at the bar? Interesting? etc. I'd appreciate some thrown my way.

Some of the comments I hear from older, or mainline guys is that our sims are canned and they miss the stuff the used to run in the boxes "back in the day." I'd like some stuff like that.

*edit - "mental workout" was the phrase I was looking for.
 
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If you’re in a sim... a real sim, I know a few games to play.

Please ask if interested.

I also ALWAYS ask for a dual engine failure.

For fun I have also asked for single engine takeoffs.
 
Kritchlow said:
If you’re in a sim... a real sim, I know a few games to play.

Please ask if interested.

I also ALWAYS ask for a dual engine failure.

For fun I have also asked for single engine takeoffs.
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I'm assuming you mean the box. Yes, an FAA approved sim that I got my type in.

Dave Theisen said:
Approach into Aspen. Came in handy because I finally made it there back in November.
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I wish but I don't think we have that in our database...
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
I'm assuming you mean the box. Yes, an FAA approved sim that I got my type in.


I wish but I don't think we have that in our database...
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If you want to know the games just ask. Very good actually.

I’m certain if you are in a real sim (box), you have aspen. I believe most databases are shared, although I could be wrong.
What school???
 
You are out of my league but the few times I have played in the Global Sim I did:
The hudson flight.
Surprise thrust reverser at some point in flight.
Asymmetric flap deployment
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
You are out of my league but the few times I have played in the Global Sim I did:
The hudson flight.
Surprise thrust reverser at some point in flight.
Asymmetric flap deployment
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I’ve done a TR deployment at 350kts. The first two times I crashed and burned. Then I learned how to do it. The toughest maneuver on the planet... although it can never happen. The aerodynamics at that speed keep it closed regardless. It’s designed that way. It was a great learning experience none the less.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
You are out of my league but the few times I have played in the Global Sim I did:
The hudson flight.
Surprise thrust reverser at some point in flight.
Asymmetric flap deployment
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Done the Hudson. That was one fun. I landed in the water on the first one. The second time around I made a turn to LGA, landed, and used the remaining energy to roll to a gate. lol
That's a good idea. Ill jot that one down.
That's also good.

Thanks. If any other GA guys have stuff to add, feel free.

Kritchlow said:
I’ve done a TR deployment at 350kts. The first two times I crashed and burned. Then I learned how to do it. The toughest maneuver on the planet... although it can never happen. The aerodynamics at that speed keep it closed regardless. It’s designed that way. It was a great learning experience none the less.
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Our RJ has actual buckets, though. They're locked in place but that's one ill write down for sure.
 
Several years ago, when I was still flying the 777, we had some time so I asked if Meigs was still in the box. It was so we set up a visual approach to 36. We were pretty light but not at minimum fuel. We touched down fairly close to the end of the runway and were stopped with about 500 feet to spare. If I recall, that runway was 4000 feet long. Amazing what 12 big carbon brakes can do.

Most of the time when asked that question, I just want to get out of the box and go hom.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Done the Hudson. That was one fun. I landed in the water on the first one. The second time around I made a turn to LGA, landed, and used the remaining energy to roll to a gate. lol
That's a good idea. Ill jot that one down.
That's also good.

Thanks. If any other GA guys have stuff to add, feel free.


Our RJ has actual buckets, though. They're locked in place but that's one ill write down for sure.
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So we were just clowning around at CAE but the asymmetric flap deployment taught me a pretty good lesson (And I know you know this but I didn't).
I hit the flaps and the plane rolled and I began fighting with ailerons and eventually rudder.

My buddy goes "Why don't you try undoing what you just did?"

It was a good lesson for me because I had never been instructed to undo the last thing you did if something is not right.
I just started troubleshooting as if this were square 1 versus realizing square 1 was back a few steps.
 
I think a recovery from a fully developed stall at FL370 would be quite interesting. Do they teach this?

An unlikely scenario, but it's happened before with no airspeed indication courtesy of pitot ice. Scary stuff.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I think a recovery from a fully developed stall at FL370 would be quite interesting. Do they teach this?

An unlikely scenario, but it's happened before with no airspeed indication courtesy of pitot ice. Scary stuff.
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Yup. They do now. It’s not pretty, but doable there is no altitude loss limitation on the maneuver.... Thank God.
 
Kritchlow said:
although it can never happen. The aerodynamics at that speed keep it closed regardless
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I remember reading about a Lauda crash that killed everyone from an engine going reverse in flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauda_Air_Flight_004 that's been a small irrational fear when flying since reading that. Good to know that contemporary tech is immune to this

SixPapaCharlie said:
I hit the flaps and the plane rolled and I began fighting with ailerons and eventually rudder.
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Funny how your mind wants to go forward, instead of back. When I first read that I played it out in my head and I was thinking the same with rudder and aileron. Now it seems crazy obvious to just retract them, duh!
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I think a recovery from a fully developed stall at FL370 would be quite interesting.
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Funny, after AF447 I was always curious how many pilots would survive this if confronted with the same failures that the crew faced that night
 
Tantalum said:
I remember reading about a Lauda crash that killed everyone from an engine going reverse in flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauda_Air_Flight_004 that's been a small irrational fear when flying since reading that. Good to know that contemporary tech is immune to this


Funny how your mind wants to go forward, instead of back. When I first read that I played it out in my head and I was thinking the same with rudder and aileron. Now it seems crazy obvious to just retract them, duh!
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Indeed I have no doubt it can happen on some. My point is on some aircraft the enging shape is designed that it cannot open at speed.
We are not talking mechanical failure here, but rather the law of physics.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Hey all,

I know there are a few airline drivers here so I thought I'd throw this out before I posted on some other airline-oriented forums. I finished up a maneuver's val. today far ahead of schedule and after we were done checking the boxes, I got the question - "Is there anything else you'd like to try?"
Click to expand...
Sim Instructor: “Well, we’re done early, what else do you want to see?”

Me: *unbuckling my lap belt and gathering my stuff*
“The bottom of a beer glass.”
 
Sluggo63 said:
Sim Instructor: “Well, we’re done early, what else do you want to see?”

Me: *unbuckling my lap belt and gathering my stuff*
“The bottom of a beer glass.”
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Yup. I'm outa here most of the time, but that was very rare. The IPs had a lot to cover. On occasion did some extra stuff. Did the D.C.-10 that lost all three hydraulic systems, Iowa I believe it was actually. We did it into ATL but everything else was set up like Iowa. I made it to the runway successfully. Of course a no pressure situation.
 
“No thanks. Can I go to the airport now and catch an earlier flight home.”:D
 
I should have known how most of these answers would turned out...

:D
 
Me as soon as we’re done with debriefing and the instructor says you’re free to go

200w.gif
 
My brother flew with a sim check dude, and they were in the same position (finished early).

The check guy said "Mind if I fly an approach?". My brother obliged.

He turned the passenger jet upside down, flew the approach to minimums, then flipped it back over and landed.

You could try that...?
 
One of my partners in the Mooney is an E190 driver and sometimes runs the sim, I need to ask him if I could ever get seat time someday. That would be awesome.
 
Regarding the high altitude stalls, I was told the simulator doesn't replicate them very accurately as they never tested and documented accurately or the sim company didn't want to buy all of that data to build into sim, as they didn't need it. Take your pick on what is true. This is on small GA jets, citation and hawker.

Since you are looking for stupid tricks....from takeoff how fast can you get land back on deporting runway, without going straight ahead. Basically, a low circle at about 50 AGL.
 
We had extra time one session and I did the expressway Visual 31 with a no flap landing with fair braking action.
 
battery power only, on the Standby instrument - no other screens, bingo fuel: DCA ILS 1 Night (IAD BWI closed), blowing snow 200 OVC 1800 RVR icing and no radar altimeter

:)
 
Getonit said:
Regarding the high altitude stalls, I was told the simulator doesn't replicate them very accurately as they never tested and documented accurately or the sim company didn't want to buy all of that data to build into sim, as they didn't need it. Take your pick on what is true. This is on small GA jets, citation and hawker.
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I was thinking that might be true. Is there any requirement for commercial pilots in, say, a 777 to try that stall in actual training....or too risky?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My buddy goes "Why don't you try undoing what you just did?"
Click to expand...

This is an important thing for you to remember. Especially in low wing planes. If you change tanks, and the RPMs drop, change it back, then grab the check list and look for another cause.
 
StevieTimes said:
He turned the passenger jet upside down, flew the approach to minimums, then flipped it back over and landed.
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How accurate are these models for extreme maneuvers like this? Would the airfoil, on say, a 737, really fly well enough, inverted, to do a controlled approach to minimums? If I had millions these "stupid" tricks might be fun to try with some of the old boneyard planes and a remote pilot setup

Getonit said:
Regarding the high altitude stalls, I was told the simulator doesn't replicate them very accurately as they never tested and documented accurately or the sim company didn't want to buy all of that data to build into sim
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I think I read the same after AF447. That crews "could" practice it, but it wouldn't really replicate the real thing

SoCal RV Flyer said:
a 777 to try that stall in actual training
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I've always wondered that too. There are some good videos on Youtube of large commercial airliners doing all sorts of maneuvers, including various stalls, etc during certification. By nature of the plane being certificated it shouldn't be "too dangerous" .. maybe cost prohibitive, but I would think no simulator can replace the actual sensation of stalling a 777 at altitude. I seem to recall watching an interview somewhere with a 747 pilot who said the stalls in it were remarkably stable, coordinated, and easy to recover from. Apparently lightly loaded you could power out of a stall without even lowering the nose. Just full stick back and max throttle.
 
As an ancient SE Cub driver only, what happens in a high altitude AF447 type stall that makes everyone respect them?

If there was such a simulator, I'd just like to try a short coupled (like a Knight Twister) TW X/W takeoff/landing roll:eek:......
 
Tantalum said:
How accurate are these models for extreme maneuvers like this? Would the airfoil, on say, a 737, really fly well enough, inverted, to do a controlled approach to minimums?
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Aerodynamically possible or not, the engines would probably quit from fuel starvation.
 
nrpetersen said:
As an ancient SE Cub driver only, what happens in a high altitude AF447 type stall that makes everyone respect them?
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As an over-simplification, the airplane needs to pass roughly the same number of air molecules to recover...at 35,000 feet, air density is roughly a quarter of sea level density.

The bigger factor is the fact that AF447, via several causes, found themselves at 41 degrees angle of attack, descending at 11,000 ft/minute. I think the estimate was that it would take about 28,000 feet to recover from that point.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I was thinking that might be true. Is there any requirement for commercial pilots in, say, a 777 to try that stall in actual training....or too risky?
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for the most part there is no actual training in the airline world. all sim, the first time you fly the jet for real its a revenue leg with passengers in the back and a ioe airman in the other seat.

bob
 
StevieTimes said:
My brother flew with a sim check dude, and they were in the same position (finished early).

The check guy said "Mind if I fly an approach?". My brother obliged.

He turned the passenger jet upside down, flew the approach to minimums, then flipped it back over and landed.

You could try that...?
Click to expand...
I was thinking along those lines. Loops, rolls, landings on dirt strips, area 51 etc...
 
Let's see, what else can we try....

how about the Denzel Washington maneuver from Flight?

Of course, we need to get in the right frame of mind first.
 
At World Airways, we used to shut off all of the automation and fly touch and goes with increasing crosswinds. No visual glide slope either. This was in the MD-11 and B-747-400.
 
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