Is there a controller in the house?

R

RobertGerace

Guest
I posted a thread about confirming 'Traffic in Sight' and a nice CFI politely told me that in the process of communicating the above information, that controllers have absolutely no interest in hearing that a pilot has the traffic using electronic systems such as TCAS, TCAD, and/or TIS.

While I appreciate that information, it just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the controller is not allowed to climb me / descend me / turn me back on course based on electronic info alone...and that makes sense...but it seems to me that if I'm the controller, I would be at least somewhat more comfortable with the information that the pilot has and is using electronic information to help find the traffic.

I'm not saying that the CFI is wrong (that the controller needs to hear you SEE it) ...because I never hear, "OK, maintain fishfinder separation, climb and maintain 10,000" :) (BTW...I never say fishfinder)...

But I am saying that I find it hard to believe that a controller *doesn't care* or *does not want to hear* or *thinks you are filling his freq with garbage* if you tell him you have traffic electronically.

Note: (none of the words between * * are those of the CFI) I'm just trying to take his point to the extreme to illustrate an example.
 
Bob, not a controller, and didn't sleep in any form of hotel last night.

My understanding is the same of your CFI's understanding. ATC can really do nothing with respect to you having the traffic electronically (and I'd rather not tell them as it'll make them less diligent at pointing out other traffic). IIRC, a controller once told me that - because of see-and-avoid - the only thing he's interested in is whether you visually see the traffic. If you visually see it, he can instruct you to maintain visual separation, thereby minimizing some separation requirements and expediting traffic. Same controller also pointed out to me that there are some areas in which they are still mandated to keep appropriate separation even if you see the traffic (visual separation not allowed).

I don't recall the specifics, and I do hope one of the controllers is lurking.

bill
 
Yup, and "fishfinder" reports and variations of are not generally any good. It also depends on the circumstance. If the traffic is an un-identified VFR aircraft and I get the fishfinder report, I don't watch it as close as i figure the pilot is better informed about whether to deviate, climb/descend, ask for a vector, etc to miss the traffic.

If it's a merging target situation with 2 IFR aircraft and one wants to climb/descend around the other, the fishfinder report is no good. We have to hear the words traffic in sight or other variation of visual sighting.

Scott
 
I've asked this over at stuckmic.com which is an atc forum. I'll let you know the response.
 
Re: Is there a controller in the house?- controllers response

Here is the response I got from a controller.

URonGuard wrote: [TO: flyboy]
TCAS is useful for pilot SA and it is nice to see him on the TCAS when a controller reports traffic. Unfortunately, only visual contact will change our (controller's) rules for separation. Advising that you have him on TCAS or on the "fish finder" does not help us as controllers. Hope this helps.
 
bob;


When I am given traffic calls by ATC, I look and spot it and I always replie with "traffic in sight"If I do not see it I always reply "No Contact, Looking for traffic". When sited I communicated; " I have oclock traffic in sight" I try to let the controller know right away what I can see visualy. If in the soup I just tell the controller; " I am IMC" I have had numorous times expericneced the controller will query the traffic if they have me in sight and they will respond; I have him on the Fish Finder" The controller has in some cases came back : Do you see the Beech?" It is a visual eye ball to eye ball contact is what the controller is looking for. Electronic seperation is nice but it will not replace the visual contact. I was in a real nice turbine twin in the right seat and wow the traffic stuff coming out of the Fish Finder was well pretty scary. My eyes were outside spotting traffic for the PIC. I was busy keeping visual seperation. The TCAS or TCAD is a nice helper but it will never replace the eyes.

John J
 
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Well,

I guess I have my answer. I think I will stop cluttering the frequency with the 'got him on TCAS' calls. ;)
 
gibbons said:
Bob,

Do you always repeat yourself?
Click to expand...

Sometimes.

Sometimes.

It depends. It depends.

But I'm confused as to which repeat you are referring. :hairraise:
 
RobertGerace said:
Sometimes.

Sometimes.

It depends. It depends.

But I'm confused as to which repeat you are referring. :hairraise:
Click to expand...

For a while the post that starts with "I guess I have my answer..." was in the list twice. Either it was a temporary system glitch or you deleted a copy.:eek:
 
Ahhhh.

I did not delete it, but PoA may have. I didn't double post it on purpose, but who knows if I double-clicked when I should have single clicked, etc. ;)

Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info. :)
 
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