Is right seat turbine time worth anything?

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rookie1255

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rookie1255
Turbine time is a big box to check in terms of enhancing one's resume. It's also arguably the most difficult to get. A well off individual can buy a cheap twin, build time, then resell it. The cost of purchasing a turbine/operating it makes it extremely impractical to do this with a turbine.

Options I have looked at (seriously and not so seriously):

1. Building a Subsonex. Cost would be about $140,000 and cost per flight hour would be about $100 per hour. This would be PIC time, but it would be in a strange, experimental, aircraft.

2. Going to Belize doing a time building program at http://www.tropicairpilotprogram.com/Home.html

This is right seat time though. I don't know if that's really worth anything.

What would be the best way to go about this? I'm open to options. I know military helicopter pilots transition to airlines and their turbine time counts even though it was in a helicopter, so it makes me wonder if the type of aircraft matters more or the type of time (PIC vs SIC).
 
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rookie1255 said:
Turbine time is a big box to check in terms of enhancing one's resume. It's also arguably the most difficult to get. A well off individual can buy a cheap twin, build time, then resell it. The cost of purchasing a turbine/operating it makes it extremely impractical to do this with a turbine.

Options I have looked at (seriously and not so seriously):

1. Building a Subsonex. Cost would be about $140,000 and cost per flight hour would be about $100 per hour. This would be PIC time, but it would be in a strange, experimental, aircraft.

2. Going to Belize doing a time building program at http://www.tropicairpilotprogram.com/Home.html

This is multi-engine turbine time, but its right seat. I don't know if that's really worth anything.

What would be the best way to go about this? I'm open to options. I know military helicopter pilots transition to airlines and their turbine time counts even though it was in a helicopter, so it makes me wonder if the type of aircraft matters more or the type of time (PIC vs SIC).
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It really depends on your goals. Exactly why do you want multi turbine time?
If you want airlines, the regional airlines will hire you into a jet with zero turbine.
From there you can progress to mainline airlines.
 
rookie1255 said:
2. Going to Belize doing a time building program at http://www.tropicairpilotprogram.com/Home.html

This is multi-engine turbine time, but its right seat. I don't know if that's really worth anything.

What would be the best way to go about this? I'm open to options. I know military helicopter pilots transition to airlines and their turbine time counts even though it was in a helicopter, so it makes me wonder if the type of aircraft matters more or the type of time (PIC vs SIC).
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Ok, the Belize option is single engine turbine in Cessna Caravans, fwiw. In my opinion, you have to be real hard up to pay money for C208 time. Th y should b paying you, as they do require a CP certificate after all.

Your best bet is to get some piston twin time, then get a job that will get you some turbine time. An FBO that does flight instruction and part 135 charter is ideal in that respect. Good luck.
 
There is a strong prejudice in the airline pilots ranks against "pay 2 fly" programs. Basically, SIC time in a single pilot turbine is worthless.

Be easier to get some early multi/turbine time by networking at the airports and move on to flying boxes. Or move to alaska.
 
Building a Sonex and logging single engine turbine without IFR time is in my eyes nearly worthless, other than the total time part.
 
Go find a charter company,fly the right seat,when the aircraft is empty,you will get pic time.
 
Yes the time is worth something. But pay for training programs like this one brings down the pilot profession for everyone. Why pay someone when you can get them to pay you? I know plenty of people who look at resumes constantly for hiring pilots and many of them will immediately toss it in the trash ifthey see pay for training. So yes you can learn but it may do more harm than good.
 
rookie1255 said:
Turbine time is a big box to check in terms of enhancing one's resume. It's also arguably the most difficult to get. A well off individual can buy a cheap twin, build time, then resell it. The cost of purchasing a turbine/operating it makes it extremely impractical to do this with a turbine.
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My god dude... Once you get your CPL you DONT pay to log time, I'll say it again, WORK TO LOG TIME.

Don't go blowing daddy's money, or the banks money buying aircraft to build time for work, no, no, no.

It's also not worth nearly as much as WORKING pilot hours, flying around to get burgers is worth a tenth of what flying for a operator is worth, it's a whole diffrent mindset and a interview board knows this, and you will be judged, or rather passed up.

rookie1255 said:
1. Building a Subsonex. Cost would be about $140,000 and cost per flight hour would be about $100 per hour. This would be PIC time, but it would be in a strange, experimental, aircraft.
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Again, stupid idea. 140k? Are you kidding me!

Interview board would see you as some rich kid who couldn't hack it getting a turbine job, probably not what you want.

rookie1255 said:
2. Going to Belize doing a time building program at http://www.tropicairpilotprogram.com/Home.html

This is right seat time though. I don't know if that's really worth anything.
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Pay to fly, P2F, is what's it's called the time is worthless (SIC in a 208 is silly anyways) and it's a great way to get your resume tossed in the trash, it's offensive to working pilots, and you won't even get to the interview unless someone somehow doesn't notice the P2F time, if that happens one in the interview it will be rather short once it's noticed, "don't call us, we'll call you"

rookie1255 said:
What would be the best way to go about this? I'm open to options. I know military helicopter pilots transition to airlines and their turbine time counts even though it was in a helicopter, so it makes me wonder if the type of aircraft matters more or the type of time (PIC vs SIC).
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PIC time is king, I have zero SIC time and I've never been turned down because I had too much PIC or not enough SIC.

So here's how you get turbine time, get a friggin turbine job.

Hit 1,000hrs and get in with a drop zone, log tons of turbine PIC time, make great friends and connections, have a decent little QOL and really learn to fly the snot out of a turbine.


Here's a few examples.


"5/29/15 Skydive Sussex is looking for a King Air B90 pilot. They require a Commercial License, 2nd Class Medical and 1000TT. Send your resume to skydivesussexnj@gmail.com"

"4/18/15 Skydive Sacramento needs a pilot ASAP for their C206 and C182 with the opportunity to fly their King Air. They require a Commercial License, 2nd Class Medical and 500TT. If you meet their requirements send your resume to wpatrickgarcia@yahoo.com"
 
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How much time do you have now?

121 supplemental cargo operators (USA Jet for example) can hire you at 800 TT and you'll be building legit right seat turbine time while getting proper training AND paid comparable to regional airline FO pay. You'll work your tail off, but you won't be paying for the time or training.
 
I have 3 hours of turbine time via a guy I know at the local airport. He lets the airport bums ride along and fly the empty legs. Since he is an MEI he can sign you off as training.
 
SIC time in a 208 is utterly stupid and useless.
 
Kritchlow said:
It really depends on your goals. Exactly why do you want multi turbine time?
If you want airlines, the regional airlines will hire you into a jet with zero turbine.
From there you can progress to mainline airlines.
Click to expand...

I'm quoting myself because I still feel it's the best option...
 
Fearless Tower said:
How much time do you have now?

121 supplemental cargo operators (USA Jet for example) can hire you at 800 TT and you'll be building legit right seat turbine time while getting proper training AND paid comparable to regional airline FO pay. You'll work your tail off, but you won't be paying for the time or training.
Click to expand...


Why are they able to hire at 800TT? I thought all 121 now required ATP mins.

Is there an exception for cargo? Is this the same as Ameriflight?
 
dans2992 said:
Why are they able to hire at 800TT? I thought all 121 now required ATP mins.

Is there an exception for cargo? Is this the same as Ameriflight?
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Apparently there are different requirements for what is considered 'supplemental'. It isn't 135 like Ameriflight, but on demand 121.

There are also some other loopholes in 121. Great Lakes started hiring guys without ATP mins, and they use them on short routes with aircraft that are under the standard 121 seat limit. But those Great Lakes FOs are more like indentured servants than paid pilots.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Apparently there are different requirements for what is considered 'supplemental'. It isn't 135 like Ameriflight, but on demand 121.

There are also some other loopholes in 121. Great Lakes started hiring guys without ATP mins, and they use them on short routes with aircraft that are under the standard 121 seat limit. But those Great Lakes FOs are more like indentured servants than paid pilots.
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Those GL aircraft reduced the seat numbers so they could operate the aircraft under Part 135, not 121.

121 Supplemental doesn't give any relief to the ATP hiring requirements.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Those GL aircraft reduced the seat numbers so they could operate the aircraft under Part 135, not 121.

121 Supplemental doesn't give any relief to the ATP hiring requirements.
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Ok, I see the GL deal.

So how is USA Jet hiring at those times? Putting new hires in the right seat of the Falcons at 800TT. That is what the recruiter was telling me.
 
RotorAndWing said:
The Falcons are under Part 135.
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I see. So the recruiter was BS'ng me about building 121 time off the bat. I suppose he could have been referring to s quick upgrade to the 121 DC-9s.

Still, even if it is 135, the pay is better than going to some outfit where you pay to keep the right seat warm.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I see. So the recruiter was BS'ng me about building 121 time off the bat. I suppose he could have been referring to s quick upgrade to the 121 DC-9s.

Still, even if it is 135, the pay is better than going to some outfit where you pay to keep the right seat warm.
Click to expand...

It's a play on words. Whether it's 135 or 121 shouldn't make any difference, they still operate pretty much the same.
 
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