Is it possible to start an Air Charter/Maintenance company and make a profit?

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Melissa2983298

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Melissa
I've always wanted to be a pilot, but I've started thinking about owning my own business (I've never wanted to work for someone else). Is it possible to start an Air Charter business/Maintenance business and turn it into a multi-million dollar company one day or is that unrealistic?
 
- the only people I know who left with more money at retirement than they started with in general aviation are mechanics.

- in charter, you are competing with businesses that are happy to break even or lose money. The only reason their aircraft are on a certificate is because it allows an owner to maintain a certain percentage of business use for tax purposes. If you want to actually make money, you are at a disadvantage competing with those businesses.

- in aircraft management you are competing with hordes or bored airline pilots who are hoping to build a company on the side so they have something after their current airline folds (again).

- do you have customers ? Everything else can be arranged.

- wait for the next economic bubble so you can siphon money of the stupid rich.

- if you want to make this a career, get your flying papers, hour hours and an A&P ticket. If you have to pay retail for maintenance, you are not going to get off the ground.

- if what you want to do involves the FAA (repair station, 135 operating certificate), be prepared for lengthy buerocratic delays.
 
It can be done, it's a long , hard road.
 
frfly172 said:
It can be done, it's a long , hard road.
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...and you'd better have a good road map. The only way to get that map is to go to work for someone else who is successful in that business, because there's no good school to learn it other than the University of Hard Knocks -- this is not an area which any collegiate aviation program teaches well and it isn't covered by collegiate business departments.
 
As has been said, yes, it is possible. But it's not just a rubber stamp. You need to be an exceptionally talented entrepreneur with a huge amount of knowledge in the industry. You can't simply rent a hangar and hang out your shingle. If you've never run a successful startup before, I wouldn't recommend this as your first project.
 
You'd be well served working in the industry for a while before trying to start or buy a 135/121/141/137 etc.

Most of the folks I know who started as pilots and ended up owning their own shop were in the 137 world.

For sure it's possible, but it's a tuff industry.
 
What's the old saying?

"If you want to make a small fortune in aviation...you have to start with a large fortune."

:D

Mike
 
It really depends on what you want to do and where you want to do it...is there a market for a service currently not being offered?
 
Buy a C150, rent the hell out of it. Buy another one, and so on.

Just answer emails and you are better than 99% of whats available at the moment.
Plenty of people around the World looking for cheap hour building, but the plans available currently are either way overpriced (120/hour) or dodgy (75/hr split safety pilot PIC sort of thing), or they don't return your emails.
 
mtuomi said:
Buy a C150, rent the hell out of it. Buy another one, and so on.

Just answer emails and you are better than 99% of whats available at the moment.
Plenty of people around the World looking for cheap hour building, but the plans available currently are either way overpriced (120/hour) or dodgy (75/hr split safety pilot PIC sort of thing), or they don't return your emails.
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Not a bad move.
 
mtuomi said:
Buy a C150, rent the hell out of it. Buy another one, and so on.

Just answer emails and you are better than 99% of whats available at the moment.
Plenty of people around the World looking for cheap hour building, but the plans available currently are either way overpriced (120/hour) or dodgy (75/hr split safety pilot PIC sort of thing), or they don't return your emails.
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That is a great business model to start the OP's operation...:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
mtuomi said:
Buy a C150, rent the hell out of it. Buy another one, and so on.

Just answer emails and you are better than 99% of whats available at the moment.
Plenty of people around the World looking for cheap hour building, but the plans available currently are either way overpriced (120/hour) or dodgy (75/hr split safety pilot PIC sort of thing), or they don't return your emails.
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So purely rental for time building? No flight training?
 
Thanks for the input everyone! To be honest, I can't envision myself working for someone else and having to answer to someone above me. (I've always been a "I need to be in charge" kind of a person no matter what I've been involved in). I've been fortunate enough thy my parents started their own business from scratch, so I've grown up with how to run your own business, how to market your product, etc. I started flying when I was 16 and have a true passion for it. I've started a couple small businesses (I'm 19) and am still learning what people want. My one business made a small amount of money, but wasn't very profitable because the market wasn't there, so I changed gears and am trying something else!
 
The problem is that you will be competing with owners who don't care about "profit."

Your first task is to find a customer who will sign up for 40 hours per month, guaranteed.
 
I manage jets and do some contract flying.

Honestly, the idea of a fleet of 150’s for time building has crossed my mind. They are reasonably cheap, insurance is easy enough to get even for rental and there is a market for cheap time building. Paying 200/hr for a brand new 172 is retarded, but not unheard of in the NE.

The only problem is you need a customer base. With flight schools drying up (we lost all but 2 local too me, used to have a 10) there may not be enough people local too you that have a need to build time.

Same goes for twins. They are almost impossible to find for rent. A strictly VFR twin for time building could turn a profit if it was bough cheap enough and maintained for the right price.
 
mrkbbd said:
So purely rental for time building? No flight training?
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Every starry-eyed fATPL-student from Europe will need a BFR for their 61.75 :)

Flight training under EASA is becoming nearly impossible, with protectionist rules from Europe, against EASA flight training done outside the EU. At start, I would go with rental only. Flight training is incidental to that business model, unless you get full-time students(which is unlikely).
Best way is to rent one plane for one student for one week, and expect them to fly 30 hours that week. Purely block rate, free use withing the CONUS, done.

Base the operation somewhere (Arizona maybe?) with endless sunshine and VFR days year around, and watch the money (slowly) flow in.

Cheap inital costs, low risk, and big potential when marketed correctly. So just about everything a jet charter isn't :)

From there, after a few planes, you can start a workshop mainly dealing with your own planes, then when word of mouth goes around because you are doing things better than anyone else(which is a requirement for ANY startup), you get more outside customers, then you hire another A&P, and so on and so on.
 
Even better with this C150 "business-model", have an online calendar where people can pre-book their week for time-building. That way you avoid 90% of unnecessary "is it available? no? ok thank you"-issues, or the worse "is it available" with no answer because it is not, and reading all about it online a week later about the sh*t service you didn't provide.
KISS works. Rent a plane, 2500 per week inc. 30 hours, fuel included up to current rate at home base, renters insurance required, 61.75 needs fresh BFR, job done. Correct marketing and you would have 99% utilization of your fleet.
 
(case of beer required for the idea as licensing fee if someone does that).

That's what everyone wants in Europe, but no-one is providing in the US. Just go to pprune and read what the situation is elsewhere in the world. There is your 10'000 potential customers where you need 1% penetration to start with.
 
James331 said:
You'd be well served working in the industry for a while before trying to start or buy a 135/121/141/137 etc.
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This. It's probably good advice for any industry as looking at it from the outside can be very different from looking at it from the inside.
 
Melissa2983298 said:
Thanks for the input everyone! To be honest, I can't envision myself working for someone else and having to answer to someone above me.
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Then I don't think you'll do well running a business with many employees. Those who have problems answering to those above them rarely make good leaders, and in aviation, there will always be someone to whom you must answer, starting with the FAA. As you get more work experience, you'll see the truth of this.
 
It seems that the most successful business model for the "little guy" these days in aviation is a service-oriented leaseback setup. Keep the planes off your books, and don't supply pilots. Instead, find owners who want to make some money off their planes and lease out time to people who are looking for training or transport. Maintenance, hangar, insurance, etc is all the owner's expense. Avoid supplying the pilots so you can avoid the 135 headache. Instead, let the lessee hire the pilot/instructor directly (you can network and introduce, just can't provide them directly as a service).
 
Read all the FAA rulings on who can make money flying, with what airplane and what has to be done to the airplane. If that doesn't scare you away then you are half way there.
 
Ya gotta admit.....

This gal has spunk to even float the idea....:yes:.....:thumbsup:
 
mtuomi said:
Buy a C150, rent the hell out of it. Buy another one, and so on.

Just answer emails and you are better than 99% of whats available at the moment.
Plenty of people around the World looking for cheap hour building, but the plans available currently are either way overpriced (120/hour) or dodgy (75/hr split safety pilot PIC sort of thing), or they don't return your emails.
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First off many people these days can't even FIT in a C150 which really limits the market.

So then you goto the 172. I'd sure like to see how you'd rent a 172 for less than $120/hour and ever make a dime.
 
jesse said:
First off many people these days can't even FIT in a C150 which really limits the market.

So then you goto the 172. I'd sure like to see how you'd rent a 172 for less than $120/hour and ever make a dime.
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They still are by far the most popular hour building tools for the massive amount of people around the world who are desperate for hours.

You clearly don't know the hour builder market in Europe. They will find a shoehorn if they have to just so they fit in and can get cheap hours.

I know a guy in Florida who flew full stops and taxi backs for 8 hours a day, for a week, in a C150, just to build hours. And that's far from unheard of.
 
I can't speak for the charter end but you can do very well in the maintenance. It really takes a specialty market, huge volume, a lot of mechanics, and all of your time and effort. I say go for it! It exceeded my expectations. I never would have guessed that my spouse would make the best partner.
 
kmead said:
I can't speak for the charter end but you can do very well in the maintenance. It really takes a specialty market, huge volume, a lot of mechanics, and all of your time and effort. I say go for it! It exceeded my expectations. I never would have guessed that my spouse would make the best partner.
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To the OP:

Now you heard from one of the 3 people who ever made money in general aviation :D .
 
Just track the money, do a business plan, be reasonable in your assumptions and it will be apparent whether you should try this. The bottom line is that you need to make money at it and be well funded.

If you don't make money it ain't worth doing.
 
Ironies of aviation:

Pilots will encourage new aviation business' while spending the other 99% of the time bitching about fuel cost, maintenance cost, hangar cost, FBO fees, etc. They will do endless math trying to find a way to justify GA, tanker fuel in 5 gal. cans, tie down in a corn field, use Walmart aviation parts, etc.. Just imagine how much fun it will be to get those same people to write you a check for your services?

Compare that to Ferrari owners. NONE of them care that a Ferrari cost 100X as much per mile as a Prius. NONE of them care about fuel prices. NONE would ever take their car to Jiffy Lube or some hack to save a dime. NONE would EVER even consider not garaging their car.

In Aviation your life is on the line much more so than driving any car. That and aircraft often cost more than a Ferrari. It boggles the mind.

I'd consider it carefully, look at some of the responses to this thread, I can think of about a million other business' I rather be in.
 
mtuomi said:
They still are by far the most popular hour building tools for the massive amount of people around the world who are desperate for hours.

You clearly don't know the hour builder market in Europe. They will find a shoehorn if they have to just so they fit in and can get cheap hours.

I know a guy in Florida who flew full stops and taxi backs for 8 hours a day, for a week, in a C150, just to build hours. And that's far from unheard of.
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I'm not in Europe so no I do not. However I am running a aircraft rental and flight training operation in the United States and know very well what things cost and how much money can be made. Care to point me to the successful aircraft rental operation you're running?
 
mtuomi said:
Just answer emails and you are better than 99% of whats available at the moment.
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schmookeeg said:
It's really depressing how true this is.
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...and if you operate airplanes and have a maintenance shop that both takes care of your own airplanes and brings in outside business, turning away outside business because your fleet is the priority will build you a reputation you don't want.:eek:
 
MauleSkinner said:
...and if you operate airplanes and have a maintenance shop that both takes care of your own airplanes and brings in outside business, turning away outside business because your fleet is the priority will build you a reputation you don't want.:eek:
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No argument here. It's why my Baron is taking 6 months for an engine overhaul. :D

I get to walk past my beautiful, shiny, now pickled IO-520E every morning, and wonder when it will ever get to sing...
 
Why not fly for buffalo airways for a year or two. You should find your answer there. Personally, I would not attempt it unless dad said " here's big money son, follow your dream, I'll back you." ( it's called making a small fortune.......out of a big one.)
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
Why not fly for buffalo airways for a year or two. You should find your answer there. Personally, I would not attempt it unless dad said " here's big money son, follow your dream, I'll back you." ( it's called making a small fortune.......out of a big one.)
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I'm sure Melissa is hoping for that...:rolleyes:

:D
 
I'm convinced that it's next to impossible to make any real money in the 135 business jet world without selling your soul to do so. The stuff I see from some of the operators around here makes me sick.

Doctored flight and MX logs, pulling the Hobbs breaker to screw the owners, straight up falsification of entire SMS programs to meet ARG/US Platinum and IS-BAO requirements. Non-qualified crews in airplanes, including repositioning flights in large cabin jets where neither crewmember is even typed. It goes on and on.

It's sad. The web sites make it look so classy, and the jets are so incredibly shiny. But underneath it all....
 
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