Is graduate school worth it?

One of the situations where I believe an education really pays off in spades is if you are from a family that has very little/no college and/or low-moderate business/work success. In otherwords a low socio-economic class.

Most of our development, experience and knowledge growing up comes from our family. Some from class of people we go to high school with, hang out with. So if your family/friends situation is modest in education and success then it becomes paramount to get either a mentor and/or an education at all costs-IMO.

We do not know what we do not know. It might be that what we need more than education is good outlook on life and work ethic which we have to get somewhere. Perhaps a mentor is more important than a college degree. College sometimes gets the credit for success when it could be that the mentors we meet in college are more the result of success than the information we learn. There is no way for us to accumulate this type of direction, knowledge, attitudes, even ethic without a mentor.

We no longer live in a time where corporations hire all the grads and give them work mentors. Most grads do not make it that far. So you need find your mentor before college-IMO.

My family growing up was in the bottom half of no college/middle class. I did the Army thing at 17 years old, Special Forces as enlisted man then used the Vietnam era G.I. Bill of Rights to help me through a public University Degree. I wish now I did engineering but I chose Business Admin. Luckily for me, A high school job introduced me to my first Mentor who taught me how to buy real estate for rental purposes. While I was going to college I bought a fixer upper home to live in. I then bought and fixed up 13 more rentals over the next 4 years and ended up with a higher than average income from that even before taking a job from college. I mark this up 100% to having a mentor.

I then used excellent public university grades/test scores to get a scholarship for a top private University MBA.

I cannot honestly say that the MBA made a big difference in my life. My post MBA job offers from a prestigious University were less than what I had already earned as a top car salesman working through college.

I am unaware exactly when and where I picked up some aspects of business acumen that I might not otherwise have had. My feeling is that it helped me very little although I had fairly good personal success. I am convinced if I did not find a good mentor; go into the Army; and/or get that public University Degree I likely would not have had the same level of success I have enjoyed. But did the next 2 years of graduate education and $200k of tuition and opportunity cost add that much more value to my life?

Judging by my 24 some odd cousins/siblings I think it 95% likely I would not have had any success at all without a mentor and college. (measuring success as having a substantially better lifestyle than my parents/siblings/cousins who did not get a university degree).

Which comes first ambition/work ethic to get an education and other tools required to be a success? Maybe education is nothing more than a yardstick of people who are already motivated, organized and smart enough to succeed without an education. The completion of 4 years of aggravation is nothing but a chance element in success that self selects those who went to college but would have had success regardless.

Are Harvard grads more successful because of Harvard or who they were before they got to Harvard? Of course there are issues of networking/friends and such but how do you qualify the success separate from a specific education?

My feeling is that a mentor is more important than an education and the single biggest success factor. I have to rank education #3 behind a good mentor #1 and some basic ambition and motivation #2.
 
I was having lunch with a friend when she saw me looking at a fly tramping across the window. She said that they only live about three days, that is their entire lifespan. I said, to them, it is a lifetime.

In the great scheme of things, our entire lifetime is little more than a tiny blip. We really do not have all that much time to accomplish whatever it is we think we must accomplish. Our biggest asset is time, that is because we do not have much of it.

I think it is best to try not to squander your time on an education that you hope will provide you with some abstract future that you are not even sure of.

My advise would be for you to get going with your life while you can. Understanding that good health is only a temporary condition should also help you with your tough decision.

Find work that you enjoy, if you really enjoy it, the rest will come on its own.

-John
 
B school primarily focuses on money, and financial instruments, and the management of things like that. For public admin, I would say go get a management degree.

Most MBAs gain an understanding of P&L, LTD, macro markets, econ, and some marketing. There's some courses in personnel, and biz law, but it's not the primary goal of a B school.

Unless someone else is picking up the majority of the cost, I would forgo it and go into some school program that is admin related. Unless you are going to get into the financial side of things where you need budgeting, and understanding of corp structure, segments, contributions, tax consequences, and market manipulation(calls, puts, short, long opt, stop loss, LBOs; PE, LTD, capex, opex, etc).

There are some MBAs which allow an area of specialization, and those schools can offer core courses as well as a focus on admin and personnel.

I tell students to get an education for the purpose of -getting educated. The benefits of a better job, or doing your current job very well should be ancillary to the primary goal of being a better rounded individual.

I have a few letters behind my name.
 
Perhaps all a degree really does is give a person the confidence they need to go and ask for a high paying job. I believe that the prerequisites of having a successful life are confidence in yourself, and leadership abilities, not just knowing what it takes to lead, but to be an actual leader.

I achieved both of those things via the military. What I learned there carried me the rest of my life, and continues to do so. The only thing close to a diploma I ever achieved were those I earned in the military, the primary one being the one in the attachment. I had just turned twenty when I received it and was already a sergeant in the paratroops. That school was pretty much infamous before they transferred it to Nam where it became the MAC V School.

No education, but plenty of confidence. Confidence is what gave me my life.

Perhaps a hitch in the military, especially in an elite unit if your up for it.

-John
 

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Perhaps all a degree really does is give a person the confidence they need to go and ask for a high paying job. I believe that the prerequisites of having a successful life are confidence in yourself, and leadership abilities, not just knowing what it takes to lead, but to be an actual leader.

I achieved both of those things via the military. What I learned there carried me the rest of my life, and continues to do so. The only thing close to a diploma I ever achieved were those I earned in the military, the primary one being the one in the attachment. I had just turned twenty when I received it and was already a sergeant in the paratroops. That school was pretty much infamous before they transferred it to Nam where it became the MAC V School.

No education, but plenty of confidence. Confidence is what gave me my life.

Perhaps a hitch in the military, especially in an elite unit if your up for it.

-John

Thank you for your service.

-Rich
 
I went back later and got my MBA. By the time I did it, I had experience in most core businesses (had been in the securities bus). Still, there was some new material and where I went was case method; so, I improved in reading and problem solving. While I didn't feel I had learned as much as others without my background, when I went to a bank to borrow up to eight figures to develop a subdivision, they really liked seeing the MBA among other things.

As has been said, it's very much a matter of what you intend to do and what credentials are needed. Sometimes, it's not what's needed for what you actually do, but in how others see that position and the education they expect for someone in that position.

Good luck. Hope it all works out for you. One can learn in any environment; I'm a life long learner. I had done a lot of self learning and could perform some skills some folks were surprised to see before I had an advanced degree, but the position I could have been promoted to required the advanced degree. So even though proficient, I others got the nod. Kinna like being a great pilot without being rated for the positions I sought before getting the advanced degree.

Best,

Dave
 
Are those good reasons to get an MBA or go to graduate school? If not, what would be a good reason or reasons to go to graduate school or get an MBA?

It opens doors IF you're willing to leave the nest and follow the jobs.
 
I was down at one of those discount stores yesterday, it's called "Big Lots" snagging some DVDs for three bucks each. While chatting with the young woman working the cash register, I told her I spent my life in retail, and asked her how she liked working there. She said she loved it. I suggested she get an education, it might help her to move up the corporate ladder.

She said she had a masters degree in public relations.

She had a minimum wage job at a discount store.

-John
 
She said she had a masters degree in public relations.

She had a minimum wage job at a discount store.

-John

Houston, I think we've found the problem.

The OP started the thread with "grad school worth it". Then, in the textual part he asked about an MBA specifically. Some grad schools are worth the time and effort. Many -- are not. Choose wisely. :D
 
Houston, I think we've found the problem.

The OP started the thread with "grad school worth it". Then, in the textual part he asked about an MBA specifically. Some grad schools are worth the time and effort. Many -- are not. Choose wisely. :D
Just do an investment analysis of the degree program, and hope you didn't need the MBA to get the analysis right.
 
She said she had a masters degree in public relations.

She had a minimum wage job at a discount store.

-John

Was she willing to go to where the jobs are? Willing to move across country? Most kids these days don't want to leave their familiar hometown/family settting and that can be a killer, especially in a small town. I moved up and down the east coast twice and across country twice. Risk/reward.
 
Was she willing to go to where the jobs are? Willing to move across country? Most kids these days don't want to leave their familiar hometown/family settting and that can be a killer, especially in a small town. I moved up and down the east coast twice and across country twice. Risk/reward.

I failed to ask her that. I did ask her if she enjoyed what she is doing and she said she loved it. I told her that was ninety percent of the battle, finding work you love.

-John
 
My niese just graduated from Ok state or u's (I forget which) with aviation management degree. She is an attractive girl, extremely smart and capable and she couldn't find a job in aviation. So now she took a job for basically minimum wage at an Atlantic FBO.

I asked her if she had a MBA would it have made a difference finding a job today? She laughed and said yeah they get 25 cents more an hour but still be doing the same job she is. I think I agree with her.

you cannot really pay people a lot to make cookies and be a gas station attendant, even if it has marble floors.
 
Instead, I would enroll as a non-matriculated student. I would then be able to take only those courses I had an interest in or a need for, and would be allowed to skip all the useless courses that no one in their right mind would ever take were they not part of the "core curriculum."

Relatively easy to do these days, and it's free. MIT OpenCourseWare, EdX, Khan Academy, etc..
 
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