Is airtrafic noise really that bad, give me a break

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drotto

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drotto
Just saw this article posted by local NJ news.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/20...ew_jersey_with_the_worst_noise_pollution.html

If you are non pilot and read this you would think that airplanes and airports are the number one noise polluter ever. Totally ignor that highway noise is more or less constant 18 hours per day, and except for large hubs like Newark, most class D and lower airports even if busy my have 100 operations a day with only a fraction being heavies. Plus, most of those airports are really only active for 8 to 10 hrs per day, unlike roads.

So unless you live on final approach or in the close flight paths, how much of an issue is this really? Plus, 90% of these people bought these houses knowing the airport was there.

Sorry, saw this and needed to vent. Let's try to further the narrative that GA and planes in general are a big problem, according to the media. Well let's try to live without airtravel at this point (sarcasm alert).

OK rant off.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
I live under the pattern of the local airport. I really don't hear it until the Ospreys come in to do practice approaches, then I feel the noise.

Trains are worse. We average 1 every 4 minutes 24/7.
 
Great if you flying. Not always if you below. APA has several chronic complainers
 
I've long lived within a mile of our local airport. Things are much quieter now than they were in the seventies before turbofan engines came along. Gulfstream II's were downright obnoxious on takeoff. The early Lear's were called "Converters" cause they converted Jet A to noise. Regardless, there are going to be NIMBY's no matter where you go. They will even buy a house next to a railroad corssing and bytch about the horns.
 
I lived off 51st street by AUS for three years in the late 70's. Southwest flew their 737-200 back then and upon any takeoff and upon any application of rev thrust on any landing, I remember we could'nt hear the TV inside our house for 10 seconds.
Waah. Get used to it. We moved there knowing an airport was across the street.
 
You learn to tune it out. I live in the NW Valley here in PHX and one of the KPHX inbound/outbound approach/departure airways is right over my house. When inbound they're more or less at an idle, and when outbound they're at a high enough altitude that you can hardly hear them. The Luke AFB boys are the loud ones. When conducting any operations (lately it's been all IMC) their approach path is several miles away, and you can still hear them loud and clear. What's really cool is some of them will do a wider approach right over our houses and kick in the afterburners and shake the hell out of the entire neighborhood. I know they're just showing off to their buddies as we have a few jet jocks who live in the area. I can imagine the Luke tower phones lighting up with complaints from the neighborhood do-gooders. I say screw'em!

Personally... to me it's the sound of freedom! ;)
 
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Norman said:
I've long lived within a mile of our local airport. Things are much quieter now than they were in the seventies before turbofan engines came along. Gulfstream II's were downright obnoxious on takeoff. The early Lear's were called "Converters" cause they converted Jet A to noise. Regardless, there are going to be NIMBY's no matter where you go. They will even buy a house next to a railroad corssing and bytch about the horns.
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Those Speys were loud.
 
drotto said:
Just saw this article posted by local NJ news.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/20...ew_jersey_with_the_worst_noise_pollution.html

If you are non pilot and read this you would think that airplanes and airports are the number one noise polluter ever. Totally ignor that highway noise is more or less constant 18 hours per day, and except for large hubs like Newark, most class D and lower airports even if busy my have 100 operations a day with only a fraction being heavies. Plus, most of those airports are really only active for 8 to 10 hrs per day, unlike roads.

So unless you live on final approach or in the close flight paths, how much of an issue is this really? Plus, 90% of these people bought these houses knowing the airport was there.

Sorry, saw this and needed to vent. Let's try to further the narrative that GA and planes in general are a big problem, according to the media. Well let's try to live without airtravel at this point (sarcasm alert).

OK rant off.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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It's an argument that we will never win. The pilot population is too small, the GA contribution to local economy is lost in the noise, and we are seen as rich people playing with our toys. For every family that has been helped by an airlift or pet transfer there are ten families that shake their fists at those darn noisy little airplanes.

Bob
 
Some people's lives are not complete without something to complain about. They just can't NOT complain. So an easy target like airplanes (somewhat mystical to the general population, and not numerous enough to take a stand as Bob mentions) will always catch heat over noise. Or lead fumes. Or real estate. Or being instruments of terror.
 
There's a big train that runs 100 ft from my back door. Since I live near an intersection, it blows it's horn right behind the house. It's loud. SO very very loud. And it runs all hours of the night. The entire house shakes when it goes by. Do I complain? Nope. I knew about the train when I moved in and knew that was part of why I got such a great price on the place. Honestly, I've actually come to sort of like it... when I even notice it anymore. Funny how, even with something so loud, you can adjust as long as you keep the right attitude about it.

If the airport complainers turned all that negative energy they spill into bitching about things into positive energy towards either acceptance or finding a new place to live, their blood pressure would be lower, they'd be happier people and they'd probably even live longer due to decreased stress.
 
ejensen said:
Great if you flying. Not always if you below. APA has several chronic complainers
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Like, three.

bobmrg said:
It's an argument that we will never win. The pilot population is too small, the GA contribution to local economy is lost in the noise, and we are seen as rich people playing with our toys. For every family that has been helped by an airlift or pet transfer there are ten families that shake their fists at those darn noisy little airplanes.

Bob
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Technically it's one out of a hundred or more than complains. Most people simply do not care. The numbers to the complaint lines back this up. DEN has a dude who has called multiple times per day for decades. He's a total nutbag.
 
One called (sometime ago) at an airport I was at. The FBO guy (who knew me) gave the phone to me. I politely suggested that she should move. She was calling like several times a day. Lady, this airport has been here since 1938. Astronauts learned to fly here. Future airline pilots are learning to fly here. Accept it, or move. In your case you can't accept it. So move. There are lots of houses NOT near an airport.
 
Newark airport is 7 NM west from where I live. Some nights, I can hear jets aggressively braking when there is less traffic and other city noise. I also can hear trucks on the interstate highway 95 (which could be as close as 4 NM). I'm nowhere near the flight path for Newark, but if I'm out on the street, I can hear jets which fly up the Hudson river on the way to Kennedy or LaGuardia.

People in my community complain about helicopters flying tourists up and down the Hudson (at between 500 and 800 feet AGL) to and from the Statue of Liberty.
 
I live under the approach/departure path for Colorado Springs and used to volunteer at an area fire department with train tracks literally just outside the back door, and a crossing about a block away, trains would run by about once an hour, i like airplane noise but i hated that flippin' train horn on the overnight shifts (all the RR x-ings through are now quiet zones)
 
I am way out in the sticks right now, where it is dead quiet. But I've lived in number of major cities in the world including London, Cairo and Dubai. My lasting impression is the real noisemakers are the emergency sirens, the car alarms, the taxi horns, and, in Paris, the unbelievably obnoxious small motorcycles. You just can't get away from that constant din in any big city.
 
bobmrg said:
It's an argument that we will never win. The pilot population is too small, the GA contribution to local economy is lost in the noise, and we are seen as rich people playing with our toys. For every family that has been helped by an airlift or pet transfer there are ten families that shake their fists at those darn noisy little airplanes.
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Don't forget that those small planes are dangerous too! We need to do something about them! (/sarcasm)
 
I know when I bought my house I knew what was around it. I kind of assumed most people would do the same and realize they are moving within a couple of miles from the airport. So it seems they didn't do thier homework and now want to complain. They maybe should have done more research. So to me it's too bad for them and they should shut up and deal with thier decision.
 
A new subdivision is going up on the farmland wrapping around the north and west of our airport, right on the airport property boundary. Runways are 08-26 and 17-35. Prevailing winds most frequent from west and northwest, with occasional upslope easterly.

They are calling the development "Harmony". I shzt you not!
 
Those people are idiots. When I hear a plane I run outside to see what it is like a little kid looking for Santa.

These must be the same people who had to move away from Sedona to get away from the fuel dumping.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
Those people are idiots. When I hear a plane I run outside to see what it is like a little kid looking for Santa.

These must be the same people who had to move away from Sedona to get away from the fuel dumping.
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You will be surprised how many times I run outside to be asked, what are you doing. I say, don't you hear the airplane. I get a big..O. That again type of answer. I am like a little kid looking for Santa also when I hear an airplane or helicopter for that matter. if it flies in the air, to me it's cool.

But I always wondered why the exhaust pipes on an airplane point down. All that does is make for a noisy fly over. Why not put little tips on them and point all the noise up into the air and not down. I bet airplanes would whisper through the air if they would only do this one simple thing.

I never will understand down facing exhaust on an airplane flying up above everyone. Makes no sense to me.

Tony
 
1600vw said:
You will be surprised how many times I run outside to be asked, what are you doing. I say, don't you hear the airplane. I get a big..O. That again type of answer. I am like a little kid looking for Santa also when I hear an airplane or helicopter for that matter. if it flies in the air, to me it's cool.

But I always wondered why the exhaust pipes on an airplane point down. All that does is make for a noisy fly over. Why not put little tips on them and point all the noise up into the air and not down. I bet airplanes would whisper through the air if they would only do this one simple thing.

I never will understand down facing exhaust on an airplane flying up above everyone. Makes no sense to me.

Tony
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You don't know about chemtrails ? If the exhaust pointed up, then we couldn't spread our chemicals with the accuracy needed. Think of a crop duster, how well would that work if the nozzles faced up? :idea::stirpot:
 
1600vw said:
I never will understand down facing exhaust on an airplane flying up above everyone. Makes no sense to me.

Tony
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A lot of the noise from piston airplanes comes from the prop, not necessarily the engine. Not always the case depending on the airplane though.
 
midwestpa24 said:
A lot of the noise from piston airplanes comes from the prop, not necessarily the engine. Not always the case depending on the airplane though.
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KBVS prop noise we have AT-6 and P-51and other War birds playing around all the time prop noise what noise, sounds like music to me, rattles my hangar doors all the better.
 
I live about an hour south of Newark Airport, and about 15 minutes east of Trenton Airport, 5 minutes from little Robbinsville Airport, and close to Robbinsville VOR We see a lot of traffic here, and you can add McGuire to the mix also. I rarely hear anything except for spam cans from N87, which I kinda like. Luckily the town seems supportive of our little airport, to the point of wanting to buy it from the current owner. So if any area other than right next to a major airport would be setup to be noisy it would be here.

I also saw Belmar listed as one of the offenders. I fly out of there on a very regular basis, for a NJ airport it is on a very large piece of land, raised up on a hill, and is surrounded by mainly commercial property.
 
denverpilot said:
... DEN has a dude who has called multiple times per day for decades. He's a total nutbag.
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Tucson has ours as well. She got patched through to the tower once by mistake and I answered the phone. "There's a big plane out here making a lot of noise and its leaking something." "What is it leaking?" I asked. "Big things coming out the back." "Maam, thats a C-130 performing para drops." "Para..what?" "Parachute drops, people are jumping out of the airplane...perhaps you've seen this before...maybe on television?" "Well, I'VE never heard of it."

There is a zoo near the base leg for runway 12. They've called and told us that we're endangering the elephants with the noise. It can case heart attacks in elephants. Davis-Monthan AFB founded 1941, Reid Park Zoo founded in 1967. People should have to sign a waiver if they're going to buy or build near an airport.
 
Timbeck2 said:
People should have to sign a waiver if they're going to buy or build near an airport.
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That was tried here once. Pilot group had a lawyer who was willing to file "defective property" notices against the houses of the most egregious complainers.

Colorado being a "must disclose" State, upon sale of their house, they'd have to have the buyer sign that they understood they'd found their own property to be unfit to live in, due to noise.

How the pilot group was getting the list was FOIA Act. The airport had set up a complaint line, and they'd simply asked for the records of that specific line.

Judge told the airport to turn off the separate complaint line. He didn't want the thing creating cases in his courtroom.
 
CPA tried to get it required disclosure by RE agents for anything within 5 miles. Didn't make it.
 
The noise that bothers me the most is the loud trash blasting out of some punk's car speakers. I'm smart enough not to live too close to a busy airport, near train tracks, near industrial areas, etc. Tansient noises like the occasional airplane or motorcycle have never bothered me. It's just the crap some idiots call music that bothers me.
 
In Germany some people in new developments around airports basically shut down those airports. Airports / airfields are operated differently in Germany than they are in the US and someone has to be on the ground or you are not allowed to land. People got their lot very cheap, they knew there was an airport and the moment they moved into their new home, the complaints started flying. And think about all the poor children who have to live in this noisy environment?!

Around Stuttgart one airport ist down to a maximum of 30 (!!) movements (starts and landings combined) per day... Others don't start operations prior to 9 am, have a break between 12 pm and 3 pm and end operations at 6pm to be a good neighbor... You really have to work through the airport information to know when you are allowed to land and when you may create huge issues for the pilots at the field.
 
drotto said:
Just saw this article posted by local NJ news.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/20...ew_jersey_with_the_worst_noise_pollution.html

If you are non pilot and read this you would think that airplanes and airports are the number one noise polluter ever. Totally ignor that highway noise is more or less constant 18 hours per day, and except for large hubs like Newark, most class D and lower airports even if busy my have 100 operations a day with only a fraction being heavies. Plus, most of those airports are really only active for 8 to 10 hrs per day, unlike roads.

So unless you live on final approach or in the close flight paths, how much of an issue is this really? Plus, 90% of these people bought these houses knowing the airport was there.

Sorry, saw this and needed to vent. Let's try to further the narrative that GA and planes in general are a big problem, according to the media. Well let's try to live without airtravel at this point (sarcasm alert).

OK rant off.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Lies, damned lies, and statistics. What were they measuring, how were they measuring, etc...
 
paflyer said:
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. What were they measuring, how were they measuring, etc...
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Have no idea if these maps measure peak noise level, or cumulative noise level. If it is cumulative, no idea on what time period we are talking about. The article very conveniently leaves that information out, as well as what constitutes noisy. I also expect that the color intensity is tweaked to make it look even worse.
 
I live under final approach for DFW. I work under very short final for DFW. I love every minute of it. Every once in awhile something will come over the top of the house that is scary loud and you run outside cuz it almost seems like something's wrong. I can think of that happening about twice in the last five years though
 
drotto said:
Have no idea if these maps measure peak noise level, or cumulative noise level. If it is cumulative, no idea on what time period we are talking about. The article very conveniently leaves that information out, as well as what constitutes noisy. I also expect that the color intensity is tweaked to make it look even worse.
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28804461.jpg
 
Got to see a B17 fly over the house several times today. Beautiful sound.
 
I live under the SERFR TWO arrival to SFO. There is a group of loudmouthed malcontents in our county who have been whining since it went into use, complaining about the sound and acting like their lives are totally disrupted. Note that when the arrivals pass over most of their homes, they are descending through 10 grand and at low power.

Some people just have too much free time on their hands.
 
The airpark that I live had no homes on each end. 20 years after this airpark is here some dude purchased the land on the end of the East end across the street. he then starts complaining that there is an airpark and airplanes must fly over his house to land. This man still ten years later is a real jerk and complains all the time. I finally said you built the house knowing this strip was right here but want the airpark to move or close. You are a fool and a jerk. I have no problem telling a jerk he/she is a jerk.
 
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