Is a safety pilot a crew member or a passenger?

[TMetzinger]

Here's a question to kick around:

A pilot wants to get night current and shoot some instrument approaches as well.

Can he take along a safety pilot and shoot the approaches at night, or does he have to get night current (by doing three takeoffs and landings to a full stop at night) solo before the safety pilot can come along to shoot approaches?

 

[poadeleted20]

Assuming the safety pilot is not an instructor giving instruction (there's a recent Chief Counsel opinion letter on that one), the safety pilot is only a required crewmember when the pilot flying is under the hood. Thus, unless the safety pilot is qualified and acting as the PIC for the flight, the other pilot will have to get his/her three takeoffs and landings to a full stop before boarding the safety pilot.

BTW, this assumes that the flight is occurring more than one hour after sunset. They can still fly at "night" from the end of evening civil twilight until one hour after sunset without worrying about 14 CFR 61.57(b).

 

[TMetzinger]

That was my interpretation too, darn it. Maybe what I'll do is go do the approaches, then send the safety pilot home and do the landings.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That was my interpretation too, darn it. Maybe what I'll do is go do the approaches, then send the safety pilot home and do the landings.

Are you planning on keeping the hood on during the takeoff and the landing? Or practice a zero/zero takeoff and toss the safety pilot out of the airplane before removing the hood? If not, I suggest you try it the other way around. Get current, and then take the safety pilot up.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Unless he was doing approaches BEFORE it got dark.

 

[EdFred]

Um....

Why can't the safety pilot just be acting PIC the whole flight? Sure he can't LOG the time when the other pilot is off the hood, but that doesn't preclude him from acting as PIC. Or is the SP not current either?

 

[TMetzinger]

Good point! But I don't think my Safety pilot is night current either. If he was, it would be no problem.

 

[rottydaddy]

If there's any doubt in your mind as to whether you are comfortable going up at night solo to get those three circuits done, just find a CFI who can spare 30 minutes to an hour. Money well spent.

 

[TMetzinger]

Not a comfort issue - trying to save money by not having the extra time for passenger management. It would have been simpler if the safety pilot was considered required crew and not a passenger - we could have done the approaches and landings at the same time.

 

[JimNtexas]

Um....

Why can't the safety pilot just be acting PIC the whole flight? Sure he can't LOG the time when the other pilot is off the hood, but that doesn't preclude him from acting as PIC. Or is the SP not current either?

Our safety pilot needs only a private pilot certificate (and a type rating if the airplane requires a type) and a current medical. The safety pilot needs no currencies or endorsements.

Should the PIC choose to let someone else fly under the hood, the hooded pilot doesn't even need to be a pilot, but the PIC must be fully current and qualified in the airplane.

 

[TMetzinger]

Are you sure about the type for a safety pilot acting as SIC? I thought it was just category and class, but I haven't gotten the 2008 FAR installed yet.

 

[flyingron]

Are you sure about the type for a safety pilot acting as SIC? I thought it was just category and class, but I haven't gotten the 2008 FAR installed yet.

No type rating is required for the safety pilot (if not pilot in command).
No currency is required for safety pilot (if not pilot in command).
No tailwheel, high performance, complex, or high alt. endorsement is needed (if not pilot in command).

All the safety pilot needs (if not pilot in command) is category and class rating and a medical.

It hasn't changed in ages.

 

[nosehair]

...and, while he is required crew during hood time, he is not required crew for the take-off and landing...

 

[midlifeflyer]

Unless he was doing approaches BEFORE it got dark.

Of course. Duh.

 

[flyingron]

...and, while he is required crew during hood time, he is not required crew for the take-off and landing...

Unless taking off or landing under the hood

 

[nosehair]

Unless taking off or landing under the hood

Yes, very good point. I sometimes have an instrument student do take-offs with the hood on - challenges good rudder/heading control and precise pitch control, and somtimes fly the glideslope to touch-down. That's me as an instructor -an airplane instructor - not an instrument instructor, since these are really visual maneuvers. I would not recommend having a non-certified airplane instructor be a safety pilot while you do instrument take-offs and landings.