IR in a week schools

jsstevens

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,829
Display Name

Display name:
jsstevens
Any opinions (no shortage of those around here :D) or experiences with the "Earn your IR in a week" type programs? I'm interested in folks who've been through them and those who have experience with their alumni.

I worked on my IR part time last winter (I live in Florida!) but stopped for a variety of reasons. I'm planning to restart soon and my wife suggested that with my schedule one of those schools might be a good idea.

I have mixed thoughts. If I had no training and experience other than the 3 hours for my PPL I think it would be a bad idea. I think it's better to give it more time to sink in for long term retension. However, I've got ~16 hours of simulated and .7 hours of actual, so maybe this is a good way to clear my schedule (and head) of other things a go for it.

Thoughts?
John
 
It can be a good way to do the training, if you have the schedule and mindset for it. Ron Levy works for PIC and has a good set of info for people thinking about it, hopefully he'll chime in.
 
I went here for both IFR and Commercial. I prefer the shorter time frame, more intense and one-on-one with your own personal instructor.

I couldn't go the PIC route as I would have had too many distractions at home.

http://www.gatts.org
 
You get what you pay for you get what you pay for you get what you pay for.

I would do it again in a heartbeat but would find another school with which to do it. Won't mention them here but they rhyme with Shebles.

Find a school with dedicated instructors with experience instead of a pilot mill.

Russell Aviation in Colorado combines intensive instrument training with a cross country traveling adventure. Probably others with that business model.

PIC works if you have your own IFR plane or can block rent a IFR plane for the time period you are training.

I've gotten a couple of good references on this fellow, never used him though.
 
Nobody can do their IR in a week unless they have prior instrument training -- at least 10 hours or so. Note that GATTS requires 10 hours of prior instrument training for their 7-day course. PIC does not require prior instrument training, but uses a 10-day program (with shorter, individually-tailored "finish-up" programs for those with some prior training). Also, it matters a lot whether that 16 hours of simulated is just you trying stuff on your own with a safety pilot or real instrument training with a CFI-IA. That said...

There are two major issues -- your ability to learn when information is fed to you like water from a fire hose, and your ability to fix in your system that knowledge once acquired.

On the first, count there are people who thrive in a "jam it as fast as possible down your throat, in your ears, and up your [nose]" manner. There are others who do not. If you are one of the latter, a 10-day accelerated training course will not work. There are particular skills needed to learn in that environment, and while they can be learned (memorization drills, etc.), you must have them before you start, or the time (and money) will be wasted.

On the second issue, consider this: That which is quickly learned is as quickly forgotten unless it is as quickly exercised. If you do a lot of IFR flying in the 30-60 days after course completion (say, 2-3 hours a week minimum), the exercise of your training will permanently fix it in your brain. If you don't fly for 30 days after course completion, you are likely to find you have lost it almost entirely. The question which must be answered before going to training is whether you will have the time, money, discipline, and motivation to do that post-training exercise flying. If not, stick with the more plodding training options.


Now, should you choose to do an intensive program, here's my advice for approaching it:

First, the training is incredibly intense. Most of my students say they were surprised by the level of intensity -- 8-9 hours a day, 10 days in a row, plus a couple of hours of homework every night. If you do this on vacation, make sure you're off work for 14 consecutive days, because you'll probably need the other four days at the end to recover before going back to work.

Second, that which is quickly learned is as quickly forgotten unless as quickly exercised. In order to "fix" the newly/quickly learned material in your brain, you must fly one or two IFR hops a week for four to six weeks starting immediately after the practical test. If you don't, within a month, you'll be as though you never took the course (well, not quite that bad, but you certainly won't be ready to launch solo into the IFR system in real IMC).

Third, you'd better be proficient in the plane in which you will take your training. No trading your 172 on a Bonanza two weeks before the IR course, getting five hours transition training from your local CFI, and expecting the IR course to go well. This is especially true for lower-time pilots with no experience in anything but the simple trainer in which they got their 50 XC PIC who then bought something heavy and/or complicated and/or really different, and immediately try to get their IR in it. If you only fly 30 hours a year, and they're the same 30 hours year after year, you probably need a quick proficiency cram course (a commercial pilot flight maneuvers program would be about right) prior to the IR course.

Fourth, you must be academically prepared. If your only IR ground training before the 10-day course is one of those 2-day written test cram courses, you won't know anything but the answers to the written test, and you will not be able to finish the IR flight course in ten days -- figure two to four days extra to learn all the material that would otherwise be learned in a real IR ground training course. I recommend any or all of the following, choice based on your own learning style (and whether or not you can sit still for Martha King):

· Formal IR ground school of 40 hours or so classroom plus home assignments (like those offered by many flight schools and community colleges)
· Self-paced computer based training course like Jeppesen's FliteSchool
· DVD course like King or others
· Book learning, using a good training manual like Bob Gardner's Complete Advanced Pilot or Bill Kersher's Instrument Flight Manual, and/or the FAA Instrument Flight Handbook and FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook

In addition, you should study the following books:

· Current FAR/AIM (especially the ASA version with the list of recommended FAR's and AIM sections for IR/CFII)
· FAA AC 00-6A Aviation Weather
· FAA AC 00-45F Aviation Weather Products

Finally, you must dedicate yourself entirely to the program. Don't just turn off your Blackberry -- leave it in the office. Explain to your family that this isn't a vacation, this isn't even work -- they can't expect you to participate in anything other than your training for the duration. Forget about catching up on your reading (other than IR training books) or email or internet chat. You will eat, sleep, and breathe instrument flying for 10 days, and if you clutter your mind with, or spend your time on, anything else, it won't happen on schedule.

With this preparation, you will find a program like PIC's productive and useful. You'll get real IR training, including sim training (which is highly useful in making the flight time more productive -- teach on the ground, practice in the plane), from a highly experienced instructor (PIC's average 8000 hours) with real-world IFR experience, and you will be well-prepared for actual IFR operations. You will also experience real IFR flying in real IFR weather -- something I consider invaluable, and something your local time-building CFI with no significant real IFR experience may not be comfortable doing. Without this preparation, you'll just end up tired and frustrated – and your instructor will, too, because s/he wants you to succeed just as much as you do.
And, as noted above, I do instruct for PIC.
 
Last edited:
PIC works if you have your own IFR plane or can block rent a IFR plane for the time period you are training.
If you don't have your own plane, PIC has arrangements with a few FBO's which will allow you to train in their airplane with a PIC instructor.
 
Ron, that's a very fair evaluation.

I did my IR training over the course of four months with an instructor. I was able to do my ground school over that time frame, and we flew after work for an hour or two a couple times a week usually, with some longer flights on weekends. My thoughts on this method:

It worked great for retention. Since things were utilized over the course of several months, I haven't forgotten it all, even though I haven't used it tremendously since the clouds started getting icy. I would still be comfortable hopping in the Mooney or the Archer today and going on an IFR XC with actuals the whole way terminating in an instrument approach (although not to minimums, but I'm not sure I'd want that anyway).

It also worked well for me for learning. Since I was studying for the written and oral as I was doing the flight training, I was reading about things that made sense. It all came together for me this way. I will state that on days when I wasn't flying, I was studying, and this included weekends. There were a few exceptions (like Osh), but overall it was a case of either fly or read about flying. That's what I'm doing now as well for the ratings I have coming up (Comm/CFI). Expect it to take longer if you have a family - being young and single definitely makes this stuff easier.

For the kind of flying that I do, the PIC method probably still would have worked fine (I got about 4-5 hours of actuals in the first month I had my instrument rating), but the method I did I believe worked the best for me. It allowed me to not interrupt my normal life and still get the rating done in a good amount of time. However, I also had a CFII who was local and someone I wanted to work with. If I didn't have that, I likely would have given Ron a call and asked him to come out.

If you do go for an independent CFII, I'd make the suggestion that you find someone who actually uses his or her instrument rating, and as such understands what actual IMC is like. Furthermore, get as much time in actual IMC as possible. Too many people get their IR without any time in actuals. Scarier still is that there are CFIIs out there with minimal exposure to flying in actuals. This does you a disservice. There are a lot of aspects to the instrument rating, but the aspect of using it to go places means you'll end up flying through clouds. Having someone who knows what you can expect and will put you through it so you know what to expect is, to me, essential.
 
I did my IR the old fashoned way flying once or twice a week with my CFI. I would have loved to have done it in a more compressed way, but Time and Money rarely coincide.

If I had the chance to do it over again, I would love to do the "IFR Adventure" with Field Morey.
http://ifrwest.com/

Field now lives in Oregon, but at the time I did my IR he was still doing west coast trips out of Middleton (by Madison), WI.
 
Besides the other good advice posted here, I think another factor is whether you are a "journey" or a "destination" person. In the earlier part of my flying career I was a "journey" person. I enjoyed the process of learning and was not all that impatient about finishing anything. This also integrated with my life better because I worked full time and I used the pay-as-you-go method. In later years I have adapted to the firehose method because it's a condition of employment. You're not supposed to be savoring the learning. You're supposed to learn as fast as you can so you can get back and be productive.
 
I got about 4-5 hours of actuals in the first month I had my instrument rating
...
Scarier still is that there are CFIIs out there with minimal exposure to flying in actuals.

How many actuals was it, Ted? ;)

(It's "Actual." No S. See, for example, 61.51(b)(3)(ii). There are 19 references to "actual" with respect to instrument conditions in Part 61, and 0 references to "actuals." I don't even think those silly Brits that call it "turning finals" call actual "actuals." ;))
 
How many actuals was it, Ted? ;)

(It's "Actual." No S. See, for example, 61.51(b)(3)(ii). There are 19 references to "actual" with respect to instrument conditions in Part 61, and 0 references to "actuals." I don't even think those silly Brits that call it "turning finals" call actual "actuals." ;))

You frickin' Wisconsinites with your fancy shmancy grammar schools.

I speak Engrish good, dang it! ;)
 
When you fly through ONE cloud, it's "Actual". When you fly through MANY clouds, it's "Actuals".

Yeah... that's it.
 
I got my IFR with GATTS and was very satisfied with the program.
Very, very few pilots that go to a solid, tried and true program like GATTS or PIC do not complete the program without getting the rating. There are many dropouts for many reasons in the group that tries it the traditional way. Whatever works for you.
 
The best advice I can offer on Instrument training, no matter the program is insure you find an Instructor that is experienced and has actually flown and operated in the ATC system under actual conditions. Too many schools have instructors teaching with minimal experience and their only interest is filling their logbook with time.

As stated in previous post, the "accelerated" courses are an option, but be prepared to work and study with no outside interruptions.
 
The best advice I can offer on Instrument training, no matter the program is insure you find an Instructor that is experienced and has actually flown and operated in the ATC system under actual conditions.
Not a problem with PIC -- that's all they hire. At hire, average age 50, average flying time 8000 hours.
 
Thanks all. This is very good food for thought. My normal instructor has somewhere around 9000 hours. I have no idea how many in actual (or actuals even :D) but he sure has enough stories about actual to make me beleive he knows what he's doing. He also has no reluctance to fly in actual with me (even when I was working on my PPL, although we did not, he offered on a couple of days when it was good practice IMC, ceiling 1000, not much wind, no thunderstorms).

I am more interested in learning what I need to know to stay alive than just getting the rating and I wouldn't even consider this option if I had no prior instrument training. My goal is to be able to use GA for business travel in the southeast.

Anyway, I'll keep thinking.
Thanks!
John
 
If your instructor has 9000 hours and has no fears of flying in IMC, I'd likely stick with him so long as you have a good relationship and want to continue working with him. My instructor has 6000 hours, and that was part of my decision.

That sort of experience is useful to have in an instructor, so long as he/she is willing to impart the knowledge from that experience to you.
 
I did the two week IR. I wouldn't do it any other way, especially after taking so long to get my private flying once a week, getting interrupted, starting back, etc.

Now, would I have gone off into hard IFR right after that? No, but I just wanted to get the actual rating over with, and the compressed time frame is the only way to do it IMO.
 
I did the two week IR. I wouldn't do it any other way, especially after taking so long to get my private flying once a week, getting interrupted, starting back, etc.

Now, would I have gone off into hard IFR right after that? No, but I just wanted to get the actual rating over with, and the compressed time frame is the only way to do it IMO.
Brian, welcome to the board!
And I might argue that right after your certificate would have been the PERFECT time to get some hard IFR. Maybe not right to mins, but certainly you were up on everything at that time, and it would help cement it.
 
Yep, you need that IR. That's what I do. (On board NEXRAD is also quite helpful :D)
What would some part-time Lear jock know? :P :D

Yep, Brian... having the IR is good. But, keep it not only current but stay very proficient. The line is in my signature for good cause. Get in some time with an experienced instrument instructor or well-trusted and VERY experienced instrument pilot who often flies solid IMC.

And, Welcome to the board!
 
What would some part-time Lear jock know? :P :D

Yep, Brian... having the IR is good. But, keep it not only current but stay very proficient. The line is in my signature for good cause. Get in some time with an experienced instrument instructor or well-trusted and VERY experienced instrument pilot who often flies solid IMC.

And, Welcome to the board!
Right now, Ken, I wish I were legal, much less proficient!:eek: Haven't logged an instrument approach since August, and that was with a safety pilot!
 
Right now, Ken, I wish I were legal, much less proficient!:eek: Haven't logged an instrument approach since August, and that was with a safety pilot!

I just did 5 approaches and 3 holds in the sim the other day. I thought I was only legal until the end of February. Turns out I was, but all I needed was a hold and I'd have been good through May! Oh well, combined with the approach I shot a week before, I'm good through July. :D
 
I did the two week IR. I wouldn't do it any other way, especially after taking so long to get my private flying once a week, getting interrupted, starting back, etc.

Now, would I have gone off into hard IFR right after that? No, but I just wanted to get the actual rating over with, and the compressed time frame is the only way to do it IMO.
Not sure what your definition of "hard IFR" is, but when I do an intensive course with someone, we get all the "in-the-weather" time we can so the client can handle real weather flying upon completing the training. I'm not saying they will be comfortable launching into down-to-mins conditions, but they should be comfortable with something like standard alternate weather (600/800-2) at the destination.
 
Back
Top