IR Check-ride Flight Planning. What did you do and bring?

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JasonM

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In prep for my PPL check-ride I had pretty extensive cross country planning on paper to show the DPE. It was a sheet full of information that seemed to take hours to put together.

I have not done that amount of planning on paper since getting my license, and now my flights are planned out in a much more proficient manner and filed through ForeFlight.

Just wondering how extensive my planning should be on paper for the IR check-ride and what you did for yours. What planning information did you bring or print out?
 
Has the examiner assigned you a flight to plan for (departure and destination)? Said to plan for airways or direct?
 
The year was 1992. The only on-line flight planning available was the DOS and text-based DUAT you accessed with a terminal window and a slow modem:

Code: 
---+--------+---------+-----|                        |------
 1. Waypoint 1              |                        |      
    Waypoint location       |--------+----+---+------|      
    Latitude Longitude  Alt | Route             Fuel |      
---+--------+---------+-----| Winds   Crs  TAS  Time |------
 2. Waypoint 2              | Temp    Hdg   GS  Dist |      
    Waypoint location       |--------+----+---+------|      
    Latitude Longitude  Alt |                        |      
---+--------+---------+-----|                        |------

I did my IFR flight plan on that and brought the printed weather. My DPE was more than satisfied.

DPEs may differ but most will tell you in advance what they are looking for by way of route planning. There should be no reason why you can't use the actual planning tools you will use. With one caveat: you need to really understand it beyond, "Well, here's what ForeFlight gave me."
 
I told my examiner (on the phone, when being assigned the cross country destination) "I do all of my flight planning in ForeFlight. Do you want to see the flight plan that way or on paper?" He told me to plan the flight how I'd do it in the real world but, if possible, to bring paper backups so he could put them in his file. So I emailed myself the log and printed the email. And then I took screenshots of the IFR Low map zoomed in close enough to read checkpoints, etc (I think it was 3 screenshots for the whole route) and printed those as well. When I got there, he took the paper, shoved it in a folder and we looked at the iPad to discuss the flight.

I'd ask the examiner which way they'd prefer, but be able to backup your numbers. I was prepared for things like "Why did you plan 8gph for the airplane when the POH says differently?" I also did the top of climb time/fuel calcs, in case he wanted to see those.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Has the examiner assigned you a flight to plan for (departure and destination)? Said to plan for airways or direct?
Click to expand...

I have not scheduled my check ride yet. just trying to be prepared and upto par with whatever planning is going to be expected.

midlifeflyer said:
The year was 1992. The only on-line flight planning available was the DOS and text-based DUAT you accessed with a terminal window and a slow modem:

Code: 
---+--------+---------+-----|                        |------
 1. Waypoint 1              |                        |      
    Waypoint location       |--------+----+---+------|      
    Latitude Longitude  Alt | Route             Fuel |      
---+--------+---------+-----| Winds   Crs  TAS  Time |------
 2. Waypoint 2              | Temp    Hdg   GS  Dist |      
    Waypoint location       |--------+----+---+------|      
    Latitude Longitude  Alt |                        |      
---+--------+---------+-----|                        |------

I did my IFR flight plan on that and brought the printed weather. My DPE was more than satisfied.

DPEs may differ but most will tell you in advance what they are looking for by way of route planning. There should be no reason why you can't use the actual planning tools you will use. With one caveat: you need to really understand it beyond, "Well, here's what ForeFlight gave me."
Click to expand...


I still have access to my old 5 1/4" floppy disk Packard Bell out in the shed. Good thing I didn't throw it out. ;)


mjburian said:
I told my examiner (on the phone, when being assigned the cross country destination) "I do all of my flight planning in ForeFlight. Do you want to see the flight plan that way or on paper?" He told me to plan the flight how I'd do it in the real world but, if possible, to bring paper backups so he could put them in his file. So I emailed myself the log and printed the email. And then I took screenshots of the IFR Low map zoomed in close enough to read checkpoints, etc (I think it was 3 screenshots for the whole route) and printed those as well. When I got there, he took the paper, shoved it in a folder and we looked at the iPad to discuss the flight.

I'd ask the examiner which way they'd prefer, but be able to backup your numbers. I was prepared for things like "Why did you plan 8gph for the airplane when the POH says differently?" I also did the top of climb time/fuel calcs, in case he wanted to see those.
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Sounds like a good plan. i just want to be ready for whatever before hand.
 
JasonM said:
Sounds like a good plan. i just want to be ready for whatever before hand.
Click to expand...

I took the attitude that I'd rather be overprepared than underprepared, but also didn't want to do extra work that wasn't needed. When he said the ForeFlight planning was good enough I was happy... for a while. Then I started wondering what I'd do/say if he asked about the fuel burn rate not matching the POH. "Well, ForeFlight doesn't account for the taxi or climb out, so..." and then worried what other questions that could bring up. So I did the taxi and top of climb calcs on paper, had the runway lengths for our destination (and alternate) along with the takeoff/landing calcs done (on a normal flight, I'd just say "Yep, 5,000 at the same temps/elevation I've taken off and landed on 1800' if probably enough... but for this flight I had it calculated off of book numbers).

Hopefully the examiner has you plan the flight how you will in the real world (it'll be another check of how you're handling things before you launch into IMC on your own). And hopefully something along the way serves as a learning experience (either with the plane, ForeFlight, instrument flying or anything else). And hopefully you pass! Good luck!
 
mjburian said:
I took the attitude that I'd rather be overprepared than underprepared, but also didn't want to do extra work that wasn't needed. When he said the ForeFlight planning was good enough I was happy... for a while. Then I started wondering what I'd do/say if he asked about the fuel burn rate not matching the POH. "Well, ForeFlight doesn't account for the taxi or climb out, so..." and then worried what other questions that could bring up. So I did the taxi and top of climb calcs on paper, had the runway lengths for our destination (and alternate) along with the takeoff/landing calcs done (on a normal flight, I'd just say "Yep, 5,000 at the same temps/elevation I've taken off and landed on 1800' if probably enough... but for this flight I had it calculated off of book numbers).

Hopefully the examiner has you plan the flight how you will in the real world (it'll be another check of how you're handling things before you launch into IMC on your own). And hopefully something along the way serves as a learning experience (either with the plane, ForeFlight, instrument flying or anything else). And hopefully you pass! Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good info. Currently I have just over 3 hours of training to knock out before I schedule the check-ride. Unfortunately, my airplane is in the shop again so all I can do is study and nag you guys on here for info. :D
 
JasonM said:
Thanks for the good info. Currently I have just over 3 hours of training to knock out before I schedule the check-ride. Unfortunately, my airplane is in the shop again so all I can do is study and nag you guys on here for info. :D
Click to expand...

Have a computer-based sim (or access to one)? It's not as good as actually flying and often can't be logged (mine's just X-Plane on a Mac), but it definitely kept my head in the game during those times I couldn't fly during training. And it allowed me to get a larger range of approaches flown that are possible in the plane I fly (ie, NDB approaches).

Just a thought in case you're as neurotic as I was leading up to my checkride that I'd suddenly forget everything I'd learned if I didn't fly every couple of days.
 
Ask the examiner when you get your flight planning assignment from him/her, although in most cases, your instructor will already be familiar with what that examiner wants.

That said, most every examiner I've worked with in the last few years for an IR practical test is happy if you bring in your iPad and use that to show all the flight planning and weather/NOTAM information. Just make sure you can explain all the weather charts (surface analysis, progs, SIGWX, radar, icing, CCFP, etc) that are displayed thereon, and have things like the A/FD Supplemental sections in Documents so you can show VOR check points, preferred/TEC routes, etc. Also have the Instrument Flying Handbook there to pull up the pictures of the insides of the flight instruments for that part of the oral. The "WOW" factor of all that can go a long way -- I've seen examiners' eyes glaze over to the point of, "OK, great, that's enough, let's go fly." ;)
 
mjburian said:
Have a computer-based sim (or access to one)? It's not as good as actually flying and often can't be logged (mine's just X-Plane on a Mac), but it definitely kept my head in the game during those times I couldn't fly during training. And it allowed me to get a larger range of approaches flown that are possible in the plane I fly (ie, NDB approaches).

Just a thought in case you're as neurotic as I was leading up to my checkride that I'd suddenly forget everything I'd learned if I didn't fly every couple of days.
Click to expand...

I used to play x-plane one before I got my PPL. My controller broke and I haven't touched it since. Always thought it would have come in handy for my IR, but now I'd rather just fly the real thing.

Ron Levy said:
Ask the examiner when you get your flight planning assignment from him/her, although in most cases, your instructor will already be familiar with what that examiner wants.

That said, most every examiner I've worked with in the last few years for an IR practical test is happy if you bring in your iPad and use that to show all the flight planning and weather/NOTAM information. Just make sure you can explain all the weather charts (surface analysis, progs, SIGWX, radar, icing, CCFP, etc) that are displayed thereon, and have things like the A/FD Supplemental sections in Documents so you can show VOR check points, preferred/TEC routes, etc. Also have the Instrument Flying Handbook there to pull up the pictures of the insides of the flight instruments for that part of the oral. The "WOW" factor of all that can go a long way -- I've seen examiners' eyes glaze over to the point of, "OK, great, that's enough, let's go fly." ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips Ron!!
 
JasonM said:
I used to play x-plane one before I got my PPL. My controller broke and I haven't touched it since. Always thought it would have come in handy for my IR, but now I'd rather just fly the real thing.







Thanks for the tips Ron!!
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So would I. But being able to use real charts, frequencies and my iPad to "fly" the simulator came in handy to solidify some concepts I didn't completely understand while flying. Or when I was unable to fly for more than a few days. A half hour with the simulator and my brain was back in the game (and ready for more).
 
JasonM said:
In prep for my PPL check-ride I had pretty extensive cross country planning on paper to show the DPE. It was a sheet full of information that seemed to take hours to put together.

I have not done that amount of planning on paper since getting my license, and now my flights are planned out in a much more proficient manner and filed through ForeFlight.

Just wondering how extensive my planning should be on paper for the IR check-ride and what you did for yours. What planning information did you bring or print out?
Click to expand...
What does your DPE want? Paper or ForeFlight? Did he give you the two airports yet? Mine had me plan by paper from FRG to BWI. The x country planning was mostly just to see if I used a TEC route in the AFD. Make sure you pick good alternates as the DPE will probably ask you why you chose them and what weather requirements you need. Don't forget to identify navaid's and keep timing when you shoot your VOR approach. I thought my Instrument ride was the easiest so far and was a really fun ride believe it or not. If you are well prepared like I was, your DPE will put you to work, but you will do fine.
 
My (PIC) instructor and I flew over to the airport where the DPE was and caught him between rides ostensibly to "get his weight for the W&B planning" but to see what other information he'd offer. He was happy to tell me he was looking forward to flying in the Navion, gave me my flight planning assignment (SHD->ORF) and even explained the specific scope of the ride (that we'd do all the approaches right at SHD, though we figured that was probably a high probability and had been practicing all those).

The flight plan was pretty much just a talking point for everything else in the oral: what about alternates, what if the weather was this, how much fuel, how would I get from the enroute to the approach, what would I do if we lost comm here or there....

I think mine was from aeroplanner.com ... printed out.
 
My examiner asked me in advance if I used Foreflight and then gave me a cross country that spans sectionals on purpose. I recall using Foreflight to fill out a paper nav log and again used the iPad to show and explain my weather planning, which made the DPE happy. The one question he seemed to have for me was how an inoperative component changes approach minimums. He wanted me to find that in Foreflight. As I anticipated this question, I had already downloaded the Digital Terminal Procedures Supplemental and was familiar with how to find it on Foreflight, though because I didn't how how to create binders of documents, it took me a few minutes to find the appropriate information.
 
ChrisK said:
My examiner asked me in advance if I used Foreflight and then gave me a cross country that spans sectionals on purpose. I recall using Foreflight to fill out a paper nav log and again used the iPad to show and explain my weather planning, which made the DPE happy. The one question he seemed to have for me was how an inoperative component changes approach minimums. He wanted me to find that in Foreflight. As I anticipated this question, I had already downloaded the Digital Terminal Procedures Supplemental and was familiar with how to find it on Foreflight, though because I didn't how how to create binders of documents, it took me a few minutes to find the appropriate information.
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On the advice of an instructor I ripped that out of a paper chart book and taped it to my kneeboard. The examiner was highly impressed, he said it usually takes people with Foreflight 10 or even 15 minutes to find that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
INOP Components.. Excellent tip... bookmarking that now!!
 
bluesky74656 said:
On the advice of an instructor I ripped that out of a paper chart book and taped it to my kneeboard. The examiner was highly impressed, he said it usually takes people with Foreflight 10 or even 15 minutes to find that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Seeing where you're from I'm wondering if we had the same examiner =)
 
Yes. Stuart did both of my checkrides and I figure he'll do others for me as well.
 
I used DUATS as usual for planning my flight for my IR. DPE had no problem with that. He said I proved I could do it by hand when I got my PP and there was no reason to do it again. This was in 2011.
 
My IR check ride was in May 2014. I did mine on ForeFlight with a "brief" update at the time of discussion. We discussed whether it was go/no-go at that time and why. Alternates weren't needed but we discussed options and requirements. We discussed why I chose the route I did. We discussed approaches available and discussed items along the route and I think he asked a few "what if" questions.

I showed him the ForeFlight fuel calcs and why I had dialed in the burn rate I did (using the POH). Good to go.

He quizzed me on some other stuff but it was mostly related to decision-making, not any nit-picky stuff.

My DPE is a fan of ForeFlight and sees no reason a student should do flight planning on paper if s/he doesn't want to. In fact, he made a strong case for that being counterproductive in that it wastes time looking stuff up and printing it out rather than taking in the big picture.
 
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So, this may be a dumb question, but where is the TERPS in ForeFlight? I can't seem to find it under documents - preping for my IR Checkride :)
 
couplescaddy said:
So, this may be a dumb question, but where is the TERPS in ForeFlight? I can't seem to find it under documents - preping for my IR Checkride :)
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Terps is one ugly document. It's downloadable as a PDF file here:
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli....cfm/go/document.information/documentid/11698

Half of it is an ancient scanned-in part of the book with only the revised parts really readable.

Of course, I have great doubts why you need the TERPS for an IFR checkirde. There's nothing in there that's in the realm of being asked.

I had all the charts, FARs, AIM, class II Notams, a DUATS printout of the weather briefing (I was given the destination in advance), and my ASA CX-2 calculator (not used). That and my log book and the aircraft logs and the examining fee was all I brought with me.
 
couplescaddy said:
So, this may be a dumb question, but where is the TERPS in ForeFlight? I can't seem to find it under documents - preping for my IR Checkride :)
Click to expand...

If you're looking for the information that always appears in the front of the Terminal Procedures books, it's there in FF... but you need to download it from the catalog of FAA documents.

I don't have my iPad with me at the moment, and "documents" are not something that part of the iPhone version.

When I get home, I'll check and find it. Then post how to get to it.


BTW; a good hint is to use the documents "organization" feature to put all of the IFR checkride needed items in one group. Then use the bookmark feature like crazy to "tab" the important pages. Makes it muuuuch easier to quickly find the needed info.
 
Thanks for the info guys! I appreciate it, I'm basically looking for the inop equipment list and the climb/descent table in the front and back of the TERPS respectively. I know I can just scan them and load them from a book at the flight school, I was just wondering if there was a download available in FF that would stay up to date. it seems as though they just tear the books apart, load all the charts, and you get the book on a need basis, unfortunately I will need these two charts that I was unable to find on my first 3 attempts in FF.
 
You're misusing the terms. TERPS is Order 8260.3B and is the rules for designing instrument approaches. Contrary to some other posters here, it's not really required that a pilot possess or know anything about it.

What you are talking about is the additional material that's in the terminal procedures books other than the plates themselsves and the takeoff procedures/minimums section that FF indexes in their other sections. As AggieMike says, you need to specifically download this.

Similarly, you should probably have the supplemental information in the AF/D. 90% of pilots don't know there are chart notams in the AF/D (as well as other fun things like the skydive dropzones, etc...). I'd have a class II notam PDF for the current cycle as well.
 
flyingron said:
You're misusing the terms. TERPS is Order 8260.3B and is the rules for designing instrument approaches. Contrary to some other posters here, it's not really required that a pilot possess or know anything about it.

What you are talking about is the additional material that's in the terminal procedures books other than the plates themselsves and the takeoff procedures/minimums section that FF indexes in their other sections. As AggieMike says, you need to specifically download this.

Similarly, you should probably have the supplemental information in the AF/D. 90% of pilots don't know there are chart notams in the AF/D (as well as other fun things like the skydive dropzones, etc...). I'd have a class II notam PDF for the current cycle as well.
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What can solve some of this is to bring a current printed A/FD and current printed Terminal Procedures Book for your region. Both are very low cost from the pilot stores, and it gives you a chance to add tabs to any and all pertinent pages for the ride.

Yeah, you can do all of this as an electronic document. But looking through the publication, tabbing as needed, is a good preparatory and review exercise. And having all of the right publications tabbed and ready, might provide a good impression to the DPE as a well prepared applicant.

An example about the A/FD:

My IFR instructor said to plan a trip from DTO (Denton) to Houston Hobby and we'd discuss it at the next lesson.

From another thread on this board about how to "guess" what route/clearance you'd receive from the FAA computer, I remembered to look in the back section of the A/FD for the routes. Sure enough, there is one for the D/FW area to Houston.

Added a tab to that section, did the planning. Impressed the instructor since he had forgotten about that section. And I'm happy because it added another valuable tool to my kit bag.
 
Reading the charting notams are sometimes amusing. I found a correction for a VOR radial that was charted as 421 degrees once.
 
flyingron said:
Reading the charting notams are sometimes amusing. I found a correction for a VOR radial that was charted as 421 degrees once.
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Those we ought to print off, frame, and add to the "wall of fame" in the hangar.
 
couplescaddy said:
Thanks for the info guys! I appreciate it, I'm basically looking for the inop equipment list and the climb/descent table in the front and back of the TERPS respectively.
Click to expand...
To pick a terminological nit, "TERPS" refers to FAA Order 8260.3B covering Terminal Procedures Standards. The book you carry around with approaches, SIDs, STARs, etc, and to which you appear to be referring, is the Terminal Procedures book, usually abbreviated TP (see the cover if you have a paper copy).

I know I can just scan them and load them from a book at the flight school, I was just wondering if there was a download available in FF that would stay up to date.
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There is. It's called the Digital Terminal Procedures Supplemental, you find it in the Documents area under the FAA tab, and once you download it, it will auto-update.
 
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