iPhone 4 Press Conference Today

Not a chance that it it'll be a recall.

Totally unencumbered by the thought process, much less any information:

They'll include a (custom fancy brand-new "incredible" recently designed) sleeve with new Phone4s and send them to any iPhone4 owner. The price will be lowered by $50 and previous buyers will get a $50 gift certificate.

Keep in mind that Apple removed the restocking fee for iPhone4 returns and AT&T always has a 30 day guarantee. You hear of a lot of returns? Any?
 
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Wonder if they'll hold the press conference wrong.
 
Steve will be announcing the new iGlove. A pair of these were found in a bar last week:
freehandsleather.jpg
-harry
 
They're going to announce that anyone with too much body capacitance will not be allowed to buy an iPhone. :rolleyes2:
 
Not a chance that it it'll be a recall.

Totally unencumbered by the thought process, much less any information:

They'll include a (custom fancy brand-new "incredible" recently designed) sleeve with new Phone4s and send them to any iPhone4 owner. The price will be lowered by $50 and previous buyers will get a $50 gift certificate.

Keep in mind that Apple removed the restocking fee for iPhone4 returns and AT&T always has a 30 day guarantee. You hear of a lot of returns? Any?

You're welcome. No charge.

I'm glad I didn't predict Steve would say he's sorry, although he did.
 
I listened into the conference call. They are the top of the heap and getting the complaints and scrutiny that all of the other companies had when they were top of the heap. Based on the claims made in the call I heard nothing that was not credible.
 
They're going to announce that anyone with too much body capacitance will not be allowed to buy an iPhone. :rolleyes2:

LOL, they can use that "feature" in an app that calculates body mass index and provides a map with the closest Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers.
 
Steve Jobs said:
11:17AM - Q from Markoff: I’ve used my iPhone on a heavily congested cell in SF. I’d like to know if the handset has any role in congestion management. Does the stack play no role in congestion?
Steve: I’ll let Scott answer, but I have something that’s a higher-order bit. When AT&T wants to add a cell tower in Texas, it may only take 3 weeks. But in SF, on average, it takes 3 years. No one wants a cell tower in their back yard, but everyone wants perfect reception.

11:18AM - AT&T is investing — they have to expand their networks. And we know, because we’re constantly asking them about SF and the Bay Area. But it takes a long time, and I think that’s the high order bit on congestion.

They aren't throwing AT&T under the bus. Love that guy!

(He did mention that they have an AT&T and Verizon cell tower on the Apple campus.)
 
They aren't throwing AT&T under the bus. Love that guy!

(He did mention that they have an AT&T and Verizon cell tower on the Apple campus.)
Steve ain't kidding about the bay area and towers. I am very familiar with the issues that Clear is having with their deployment of WiMAX which is entering year three of the bay are build out. Most area have these issues.

Generally, for CDMA and GSM type towers the radio base station cost is right around $100,000. For newer 4G it is actually less but you need more of them. Then there is the cost for the tower, antennas, batteries, T1 spans, etc. That adds up to about another $100 to $200 kUSD. The real-estate costs INCLUDING zoning and NIMBY add up to about $1,000,000/cellsite. The single largest equipment cost is actually the subsidized handsets, followed or tied with zoning/real-estate, and then cell site equipment.
 
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Wow. Here's the entire conference summed up:

"There's a real problem, but no one is really experiencing it. This real problem is iPhone specific. This real problem is not iPhone specific. This has always existed with all iPhones. This was fixed in previous iPhone releases. The problem still exists in all iPhones. Even though no one is experiencing it, we're giving away free cases to shut up the media."

Best part is when the person in the audience says he can't duplicate the problem on his Blackberry and Jobs says "It doesn't always happen."

Pompous quote of the day:
"We showed you where to touch it to cause the problem. That's our fault." Read that as: We're better than you, and the problem is only apparent because we lead you to it.

Ass.
 
Wow. Here's the entire conference summed up:

"There's a real problem, but no one is really experiencing it. This real problem is iPhone specific. This real problem is not iPhone specific. This has always existed with all iPhones. This was fixed in previous iPhone releases. The problem still exists in all iPhones. Even though no one is experiencing it, we're giving away free cases to shut up the media."

Best part is when the person in the audience says he can't duplicate the problem on his Blackberry and Jobs says "It doesn't always happen."

Pompous quote of the day:
"We showed you where to touch it to cause the problem. That's our fault." Read that as: We're better than you, and the problem is only apparent because we lead you to it.

Ass.
Dude your droids do it too. But I can't tell you where to touch it. :D
 
Wow. Here's the entire conference summed up:...
If you watch the youtube video and learn the right spot to touch, you will be able to degrade reception. Nobody is forcing you to buy this thing, and everybody who has bought one can return it for a full refund. And the little rubber bumper that keeps your hand from touching the spot in the manner you learned about from the youtube video is now free for every iphone 4 owner, including refunds for those who already paid for one.

Okay, can somebody give me a single justified, rational reason that somebody would have to ***** about this? If you don't want the phone any more, send it back. If you want the phone, but bear an irrational fear of "the problem", then take the free bumper. If you don't like the way the bumper looks, then send the phone back for a refund.
-harry
 
Okay, can somebody give me a single justified, rational reason that somebody would have to ***** about this?
I sure can't. There are irrational Apple haters out there. I was playing with the IP4 last night. Right along side it was my Motorola Milestone (UMTS/GSM version of the Verizon Droid).

The display is slightly bigger on my droid yet the icons are smaller than the iPhone. The iPhone works great with the MAC, no Mac drivers for the Milestone, iPhone was intuitive to set up and the enterprise apps worked, I need Android 2.2 to be released so I can FREAKIN' accept a meeting request on the Milestone. Weight: iPhone much lighter than the Milestone.

But other than those little things there is not much of a difference. Not enough to have wild hatred over. If I was actually offered a choice of what phone I could carry then I know what would work better for my lifestyle choices.
 
If you watch the youtube video and learn the right spot to touch, you will be able to degrade reception. Nobody is forcing you to buy this thing, and everybody who has bought one can return it for a full refund. And the little rubber bumper that keeps your hand from touching the spot in the manner you learned about from the youtube video is now free for every iphone 4 owner, including refunds for those who already paid for one.

100% not true. They are offering cases for the iPhone, and refunds for everyone that bought a case.

As the Jobs said himself, they can't possibly make enough bumpers to fix the problem (that no one is experiencing).

Okay, can somebody give me a single justified, rational reason that somebody would have to ***** about this? If you don't want the phone any more, send it back. If you want the phone, but bear an irrational fear of "the problem", then take the free bumper. If you don't like the way the bumper looks, then send the phone back for a refund.
-harry
Well, that's what it is, for sure. The problem is that Steve Jobs essentially told everyone that they were making up a problem, but the problem does exist, but no one had actually experienced it.

Oh, btw, they also showed a bunch of photos with people holding phones in contorted manners, with low signal bars. Exactly the same, right?
 
The display is slightly bigger on my droid yet the icons are smaller than the iPhone.
Configurable.

The iPhone works great with the MAC, no Mac drivers for the Milestone,
No need for drivers, it mounts as a usb drive when attached.
[/quote]
iPhone was intuitive to set up and the enterprise apps worked, I need Android 2.2 to be released so I can FREAKIN' accept a meeting request on the Milestone. Weight: iPhone much lighter than the Milestone. [/quote]

My biggest, and so far, only complaint about the Droid. Except not having simulatenous voice/data, but that's Verizon, not Droid.

But other than those little things there is not much of a difference. Not enough to have wild hatred over. If I was actually offered a choice of what phone I could carry then I know what would work better for my lifestyle choices.

Can you make the Droid drop calls by touching a specific area on it?
 
100% not true. They are offering cases for the iPhone, and refunds for everyone that bought a case.
How is that different from what I said?
Well, that's what it is, for sure. The problem is that Steve Jobs essentially told everyone that they were making up a problem, but the problem does exist, but no one had actually experienced it.
I didn't listen to the press conference, so I don't know what he said, but it does seem like this is more of a theoretical problem than a problem that's actually causing hardship in the real world.

It sounds like you're using the offer of a remedy as proof of the validity of the problem, but when customers perceive the existence of a problem, you have to do something to address that perception problem, whether the perception is accurate or not.

You can tell your 4-year-old that there's no such thing as ghosts, but that's probably not going to help. But if you hand her a teddy bear and tell her that ghosts are afraid of teddy bears, and that gets her to go to sleep, then you've solved the problem.
-harry
 
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SkyHog said:
Oh, btw, they also showed a bunch of photos with people holding phones in contorted manners, with low signal bars. Exactly the same, right?

Why would I want to hold a phone in a contorted manner for the express purpose of causing the signal to degrade? Perhaps there is indeed "no problem."
 
Why would I want to hold a phone in a contorted manner for the express purpose of causing the signal to degrade? Perhaps there is indeed "no problem."

Precisely.

The phones they were holding were blackberries and htc devices, etc.

The photos of the iPhone were being held naturally...
 
How is that different from what I said?

Bumper != case.

I didn't listen to the press conference, so I don't know what he said, but it does seem like this is more of a theoretical problem than a problem that's actually causing hardship in the real world.

It sounds like you're using the offer of a remedy as proof of the validity of the problem, but when customers perceive the existence of a problem, you have to do something to address that perception problem, whether the perception is accurate or not.
-harry
I think the Consumer Reports article was a proof of the validity of the problem.
 
Bumper != case.
A "bumper" is a case.
I think the Consumer Reports article was a proof of the validity of the problem.
Did they come to their conclusion by monitoring the usage patterns of users, or did they watch the youtube video, touch the phone like they're instructed to, and then see what happens? If the latter, then how does this provide any new information?

I'm a CR subscriber, and if I'm looking for a blender or a microwave, I'll go see what they say, but I've never been very inclined to pay much attention to them when they try to review technology. You just can't review a smart phone like it's a toaster, you end up over-emphasizing things that are easy to measure and test, so you can fill out your table of bubbles, which ignores a lot of subjectivity and intangibles that can be important, and also overlooks performance factors that are difficult to measure and test.
-harry
 
A "bumper" is a case.
You should tell Steve Jobs that. He is of a different opinion (according to the conference).
Did they come to their conclusion by monitoring the usage patterns of users, or did they watch the youtube video, touch the phone like they're instructed to, and then see what happens? If the latter, then how does this provide any new information?

I'm a CR subscriber, and if I'm looking for a blender or a microwave, I'll go see what they say, but I've never been very inclined to pay much attention to them when they try to review technology. You just can't review a smart phone like it's a toaster, you end up over-emphasizing things that are easy to measure and test, so you can fill out your table of bubbles, which ignores a lot of subjectivity and intangibles that can be important, and also overlooks performance factors that are difficult to measure and test.
-harry

Its Consumer Reports. They have pretty accurate tests. To claim otherwise is just fanboyism getting in the way.
 
Its Consumer Reports. They have pretty accurate tests. To claim otherwise is just fanboyism getting in the way.
It is? I thought it was an impression built over years of experience with their product. Are you sure your accusation of fanboyism isn't just fanboyism getting in the way?

Do you consult CR when choosing a laptop? A smartphone? A Linux distribution? A router?
-harry
 
No need for drivers, it mounts as a usb drive when attached.
Not with the Mac OS it does not work with the USB cable. It comes up with an error and you don't see it at all. You can hook it up with Bluetooth.

Motorola Customer Service said:


Please be advised that the Motorola Milestone is not compatible with Mac OS. Currently, there are no drivers available for the phone to connect with Mac OS based computer.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused and we assure you that we have taken measures to prevent such occurrences in future.


Yours sincerely,
Neil
Motorola Customer Service


Can you make the Droid drop calls by touching a specific area on it?
If you get the right type of weak coverage one can. You can't just do that on the iP4 either. You need to be on fringe coverage. All phones will have a desense issue when you get your hand on them.
 
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Not with the Mac OS it does not work with the USB cable. It comes up with an error and you don't see it at all. You can hook it up with Bluetooth.

Then the Milestone is not the same thing as the Droid in any way shape or form. Nor does it run a basic version of Android. Does it have MotoBlur or something on top of it?

If you get the right type of weak coverage one can. You can't just do that on the iP4 either. You need to be on fringe coverage. All phones will have a desense issue when you get your hand on them.

Ok. I give on that one, except to say that I've been in some really crappy areas with my CLIQ, my G1, and my Droid and never experienced that. Nor are there videos on the internet describing how to do it.
 
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/electronics/phones--mobile-devices/iphone-4-design-defect-confirmed/16935237001/111613310001/
 
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/electronics/phones--mobile-devices/iphone-4-design-defect-confirmed/16935237001/111613310001/

Thank you for that!

I guess Steve Job's comment that it always happened with all iPhones was a bald face lie.
 
Then the Milestone is not the same thing as the Droid in any way shape or form. Nor does it run a basic version of Android. Does it have MotoBlur or something on top of it?
Nick you know not what you are talking about.

The Milestone is EXACTLY the shape and form of the Droid. The only difference is that it is running a different air interface. The Milestone is the version of the Droid that is sold in just about every other country. You cannot buy a Milestone in the US except off of eBay or something. No carrier is carrying that model. The Motorola Android product that is sold be AT&T is a backflip. The Milestone is the full version Android.

Here is a picture of one:
attachment.php


It should look very familiar to you as you own a Verizon Droid and all that is different is a parts on the circuit board inside.


The OS in the Milestone is Android 2.1 and is the same OS that is in your Droid. The Droid, a Verizon model has a couple of extra apps that are installed to customize the Verizon user experience. The Milestone is not a MotoBlur device like the T-Mobile/Motorola Cliq.

I am running straight Android 2.1 without any hacks on it. I could load a bunch of stuff out of the development labs, but then I would be screwing around with my phone all day. Some of my co-workers have loaded the Android 2.2 Troyo load onto their phones are pretty happy with the fixes to the Exchange Enterprise stuff.
 

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Jobs would have been a lot better off just admitting there was a problem from the get-go, and giving away the "bumpers" for free as soon as it was identified. The blasted things probably cost them sixty-seven cents each to manufacture somewhere in the Far East. (Extra cost applies if you want leaded pigment.)

This whole iP4 thing is starting to remind me of Microsoft Support's old "It's not a bug, it's a feature" line.

-Rich
 
Nick you know not what you are talking about.

The Milestone is EXACTLY the shape and form of the Droid. The only difference is that it is running a different air interface. The Milestone is the version of the Droid that is sold in every other country.

The OS in the Milestone is Android 2.1 and is the same OS that is in your Droid. The Droid, a Verizon model has a couple of extra apps that are installed to customize the Verizon user experience.
I know you work for motorola, but this doesn't make any sense.

There's no drivers for any android device except the MotoBLUR. You connect the cable, choose "Mount" on the phone, and the drive appears on the computer.

Its not a driver, it is detected as a universal USB drive....

So, if your Milestone does not work on a Mac, I say the Milestone is different from the DROID.

Here's some help on the Milestone connecting to Mac from the Motorola Owner's Forum. Note that at no point does any of the techs say anything about drivers (no drivers in Android anyway).

https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/29550

If you're talking about synching with iTunes or whatever, no, it doesn't do that. Synching on an Android device is done through Google (docs, email, etc).
 
I know you work for motorola, but this doesn't make any sense.

There's no drivers for any android device except the MotoBLUR. You connect the cable, choose "Mount" on the phone, and the drive appears on the computer.

Its not a driver, it is detected as a universal USB drive....

So, if your Milestone does not work on a Mac, I say the Milestone is different from the DROID.

Here's some help on the Milestone connecting to Mac from the Motorola Owner's Forum. Note that at no point does any of the techs say anything about drivers (no drivers in Android anyway).

https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/29550

If you're talking about synching with iTunes or whatever, no, it doesn't do that. Synching on an Android device is done through Google (docs, email, etc).

Are you saying that you are plugging your Droid into a Mac that is running OS-X and it is working fine?

When I pluggd the phone into my pc it loaded a device driver of some sort as I got the 'device detected' & 'stand-by while it installed' message, then I could see the phone as a USB device. But all I get on the Mac are errors.

I am still waiting to hear how you changed the icon size too.

BTW what I posted was from a Moto-tech, nothing you posted was form a tech, it is just the support forum chat from users. Even they did not have a solution.

Like I said the only difference between the Droid and the Milestone is the air interface. Your claim that they are not "in any way shape or form" similar is a mistake. A Steve Jobs type mistake? ;)
 
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Are you saying that you are plugging your Droid into a Mac that is running OS-X and it is working fine?

I am still waiting to hear how you changed the icon size too.

BTW what I posted was from a Moto-tech, nothing you posted was form a tech, it is just the support forum chat from users. Even they did not have a solution.

Like I said the only difference between the Droid and the Milestone is the air interface. Your claim that they are not "in any way shape or form" similar is a mistake. A Steve Jobs type mistake? ;)

Inded I am, I have it mounted right now. Its called "NO NAME" as the disk name (because I never named it).

And I'm not saying they're different. I'm saying if they're the same, then they work on OSX. Video time....I'll brb.
 
Here the Milestone specs. Other than the AI you tell me what is different between the Droid and it?

http://developer.motorola.com/products/milestone/

Apparently it doesn't connect to OSX? :D Video is uploading at the moment. Perhaps we're talking different things.

Edit: BTW, I found two more things i don't really care for on the Droid in doing so:

1. Plugging in the USB cord is a lot harder than it should be.
2. Sliding the phone open or closed while shooting video makes it quite easy to press the camera button. Took like 3 or 4 takes to get it without hitting the damn button halfway through.
 
And I'm not saying they're different.

My understanding of English is the far different than yours.

Then the Milestone is not the same thing as the Droid in any way shape or form. Nor does it run a basic version of Android. Does it have MotoBlur or something on top of it?
Sure sounds like you were not even acknowledging they were the same color and were mixing up the Milestone with the pre-full-Android OS's.

I see you did not say they were different, just that they were not in "any way shape or form" the same. ;) Got it.

So when you plugged, with a cable, your Droid into the Mac it worked the first time. And you have not done anything weird to your Mac? I know you crashed the thing recently because you were loading all kinds of stuff onto it.
 
Apparently it doesn't connect to OSX? :D Video is uploading at the moment. Perhaps we're talking different things.
Is there some readon you will not answer my questions on how you got it to work nor how you can make the icons bigger?

Edit: BTW, I found two more things i don't really care for on the Droid in doing so:

1. Plugging in the USB cord is a lot harder than it should be.
2. Sliding the phone open or closed while shooting video makes it quite easy to press the camera button. Took like 3 or 4 takes to get it without hitting the damn button halfway through.
The USB will loosen up, give it time. That sodding camera button gets in the way for me too. But on the iTouch the standby button is in the way. I am not sure if there is ever a good spot for those little buttons on any platform. At least it is better than the fracking volume buttons on the Razr that would get pushed when the phone was in your pocket and kill the ringer volume. They finally fixed that with a software update after we all threatened to physical harm to the s/w dev group.
 
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