iPad vs. Nexus 7

Matthew said:
OK - I'm new to this. Nexus 7, how do you view something that requires Flash player?

I was trying to view a video at a website and it said I need Flash but when I tried to install it, I found out it's not supported on this device.
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Sorry, but this made me chuckle.

Jobs said that Flash didn't work well on mobile devices. (It didn't.)

Everyone swore up and down that Jobs was full of crap, that Flash was awesome, that Jobs and anyone who used his stuff was an idiot, etc. etc. etc.

Some companies forced Flash onto their devices. It worked somewhat.

Web developers, however, started using less Flash, to accommodate the Apple devices and others that didn't have flash. Around the same time, Apple changed their desktop browser (Safari) to run plug-ins like flash as separate processes. Suddenly, my browser stopped crashing - Only Flash crashed, and it was Flash all along.

Flash was designed for desktops, and it didn't always translate well to mobile. For example, on a desktop you can both hover over a spot on the screen, and you can click. On a mobile device, there's no distinction, so how do you interact with it the same way?

Eventually, about a year ago Adobe killed their mobile Flash development. So, Google et al removed it, since it's a dead technology.

Looks like Jobs was right after all.
 
IMO Jobs killed Flash because it was a way for app developers to bypass iTunes, and consequently a way to bypass the control of Apple. I really don't think it would have mattered to Apple, since people pay for convenience.
 
Challenged said:
IMO Jobs killed Flash because it was a way for app developers to bypass iTunes, and consequently a way to bypass the control of Apple. I really don't think it would have mattered to Apple, since people pay for convenience.
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How would it enable anyone to bypass Apple? Flash would only allow for web apps anyway, and Apple was happy to have people do AJAX web apps... Flash didn't and wouldn't enable any native apps to bypass Apple.
 
Google struggled with flash crashes:

Google has improved Flash sandboxing in the latest version of its Chrome browser for Windows, boosting its security and reducing crashes by as much as 20 percent.
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Firefox struggled with flash crashes:
Flash is responsible for more Firefox crashes than any other plug-in.
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Apple said Flash basically sucks at everything:
Jobs also knocked Flash for being proprietary, sapping battery power, not supporting multitouch interfaces, posing security risks, and being unstable. "Flash is the No. 1 reason Macs crash," Jobs said.
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I see flash plug-in crashes in my Chrome browser on a much too regular basis, now that it is sandboxed.

No love lost here.
 
There's probably a large number of apps, like simple games, that can be created in Flash and hosted elsewhere, and not sold in iTunes. As I said, I really don't think this would cut into Apple's bottom line, since people are willing to pay for the convenience of iTunes, but Jobs didn't like it, since it removes his control...JMO

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/technology/companies/13apple.html
 
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Challenged said:
There's probably a large number of apps, like simple games, that can be created in Flash and hosted elsewhere, and not sold in iTunes. As I said, I really don't think this would cut into Apple's bottom line, since people are willing to pay for the convenience of iTunes, but Jobs didn't like it, since it removes his control...JMO
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... and who's going to take the time to create apps in a dead platform that is no longer being supported by Adobe -- resulting in fewer and fewer new devices and OS updates that will even be compatible with it?
 
Challenged said:
Apple played their cards right and killed Flash as a potential competitor a few years ago (note my link to the NYT article in my edited post), so I'm really talking about history and not the state of the tablet/smartphone environment today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/technology/companies/13apple.html
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Sure, but I think that's only half the story.

Like it or hate it, Apple's tight control of what goes on their devices gives it a very stable platform that many customers seem to want ... and differentiates it from most of the competition.

Flash's unreliability tarnished the carefully managed Apple brand experience.
 
I agree that stability is a by-product of their control. I just don't think that customer experience was their only reason for their decisions.
 
Someone mentioned it previously, and I want to reiterate: If you have an Android device, you absolutely must install "Advanced Task Killer Pro"
It allows you to see and kill all the spawned apps which you have no idea are running in the background and shut them down.
Your important apps will run faster and more reliably.

Glenn
 
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Like it or not, Flash is still the absolute best product for delivering interactive content on the internet. Nothing else even comes close. Now before someone starts slamming me about the success of HTML5 delivery of video, note that I said "interactive content" and not just garden variety video.
 
This whole flash detour started when I was trying to view a video on the AOPA website on my new Nexus.
 
Interesting how any thread anywhere on various e-devices eventually deteriorates into "My OS is better than your OS" when, in the end, its a matter of personal experience and preference. :goofy:

Just a waste of bandwidth in most cases since the acolytes on either side will not be swayed by anything. :lol:

Cheers
 
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X3 Skier said:
Interesting how any thread anywhere on various e-devices eventually deteriorates into "My OS is better than your OS" when, in the end, its a matter of personal experience and preference. :goofy:

Just a waste of bandwidth in most cases since the acolytes on either side will not be swayed by anything. :lol:

Cheers
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An OS discussion is always about religion, never technology. :D

Glenn
 
My brother the software engineer/project manager who worked for years at Ericsson then Sony/Ericsson then Garmin (on their now defunct phone project) smirked at my early adoption of the iPhone then iPad.

Imagine my surprise when he showed up for Christmas with an iPhone in his pocket. No it wasn't a present. He gave his latest android to his daughter to use as music device.

"I don't want to talk about it."
 
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Shepherd said:
Someone mentioned it previously, and I want to reiterate: If you have an Android device, you absolutely must install "Advanced Task Killer Pro"
It allows you to see and kill all the spawned apps which you have no idea are running in the background and shut them down.
Your important apps will run faster and more reliably.

Glenn
Click to expand...

Actually, since Ice Cream Sandwich Advanced Task Killer has been unnecessary, thanks to improved task-handling. Jelly Bean has been a dream, even with EVERYTHING open simultaneously.
 
write-stuff said:
Like it or not, Flash is still the absolute best product for delivering interactive content on the internet. Nothing else even comes close. Now before someone starts slamming me about the success of HTML5 delivery of video, note that I said "interactive content" and not just garden variety video.
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Part of the problem with Flash is that most content doesn't need to be "interactive" to the extent that some sites try to do. Seriously, any site that needs to have a "Skip Intro" button on it is flawed. People come to your site for information, not for flashy graphics. Anything that does not help reach the goal of delivering the information the user desires is extraneous.

Unfortunately, many Flash developers suffer from the "If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail" syndrome. They'll do EVERYTHING in Flash, even when it detracts from the usefulness of the site.

Thankfully, since Flash has been beaten down a little, it's being used better where it is used. Certain parties (like AOPA) haven't figured it out yet, but for the most part the web has become much more friendly for ALL devices.
 
Shepherd said:
An OS discussion is always about religion, never technology. :D

Glenn
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Something very quietly happened this fall that Apple aficionados said would never happen. There are now more apps available for Android then there are for Apple. 100,000 more, to be precise. (700K for Android, 600K for Apple.)

The tighter the Core tries to grip, the more we will slip through their fingers. :D
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Part of the problem with Flash is that most content doesn't need to be "interactive" to the extent that some sites try to do. Seriously, any site that needs to have a "Skip Intro" button on it is flawed. People come to your site for information, not for flashy graphics. Anything that does not help reach the goal of delivering the information the user desires is extraneous.
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I would agree that conventional websites probably don't need much in the way of interactivity. But if you ARE trying to create dynamic content, Flash is the best way to do it. Training content, for example, can be much more dynamic and engaging when built in Flash. So, excluding Flash may not have much impact for traditional websites, but it creates big problems for the countless applications that do require interactivity.

My company's GPS training products are a perfect example. It would be impossible to create interactive lessons of the same quality in HTML5. Flash was the only way to create training with this level of sophistication. HTML5 is clearly not up to the task unless your needs are very simple. Plus, HTML5 is currently implemented so haphazardly that robust HTML5 content may run in one browser but not in another. Someday it may be ready to take on Flash, but that day hasn't arrived yet.
 
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Jay Honeck said:
Something very quietly happened this fall that Apple aficionados said would never happen. There are now more apps available for Android then there are for Apple. 100,000 more, to be precise. (700K for Android, 600K for Apple.)

The tighter the Core tries to grip, the more we will slip through their fingers. :D
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And 650k of them in Android and 500k of the iOS offerings are pure crap ;)
 
There are a number of iOS apps deployed using Adobe Air, which is Adobe's Flash based application development system. I've written some desktops apps in Air, and I like it lot for cross platform business application development.
 
Perhaps I missed it:
What are all you folks using to hold your Nexus 7 or iPOD mini in place?

Also, I find "Scratchpad" very useful for scribbling ATIS/approach/departure notes, etc, on my Nexus 7.

Glenn
 
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Shepherd said:
Perhaps I missed it:
What are all you folks using to hold your Nexus 7 or iPOD mini in place?

Also, I find "Scratchpad" very useful for scribbling ATIS/approach/departure notes, etc, on my Nexus 7.

Glenn
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There are pictures of it upstream in this thread. It's a RAM mount product. Very high quality, and it allows the tablet to be removed instantly.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Something very quietly happened this fall that Apple aficionados said would never happen. There are now more apps available for Android then there are for Apple. 100,000 more, to be precise. (700K for Android, 600K for Apple.)

The tighter the Core tries to grip, the more we will slip through their fingers. :D
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I never thought android wouldn't surpass apple in the number of apps. It's obvious when you think about it. Android is open. Apple is closed. Open and free should be more fertile grounds for app development.

Apple just believes they can better control user experience and have happier customers willing to pay a premium for that extra 'happyness'.

I'd say each companies philosophy is working pretty well for them both. We're talking about Apple and Google here...
 
New guy here...long time pilot...

I thought I'd chime in on the iPad vs. Nexus 7 since I have both....

I have a iPad 3 (wifi only 32mb) and it works wonderfully with Foreflight and a Dual xgps150a. The battery life on the iPad is very good and same with the Dual gps.

I also have a Nexus 7 with Garmin Pilot loaded on it. I was unable to get the Nexus 7 to connect to the Dual xgps150a. I called Dual on Dec 26th and they said that they are having "issues" with the later version of the Andriod operating system (> 4.xx known as "Jellybean") and their engineers working on it. So...if you want to use the Nexus 7 you will have to find a external GPS other than the Dual. I plan on buying the Garmin GDL 39 ($800!) and using it for the GPS signal and the free weather. The GDL 39 will also feed weather to my panel mounted Aera 560 in my Scout.

I have to say that I was disappointed in Dual's response to my connectivity issue mentioned above. How can a company stay in business that can't meet the needs of a major segment its market...the growing android base?

The Nexus 7 comes with an internal GPS but it needs a good view of the satellites to work reliably. Since I want to use the Nexus 7 on my lapboard this won't work for me. If might for you.

By-the-way...for those that don't know this...Foreflight doesn't work on the Nexus 7 or any Android device. Garmin Pilot works on both but its Android offering is currently incomplete (lacks panel page and a users manual)

After having used both Foreflight and Garmin Pilot I have to say that in my opinion Foreflight wins. It has a much more intuitive feel. Garmin is just fine, but it is not as easy to use. I plan on using both since I am a technology nut.

My recommendation (based on my experience) is to buy an Apple iPad 3 and the Stratus ADS-B (combination external GPS and ADS-B free weather). My second choice setup would be an iPad 3 with Garmin Pilot and the GDL 39. Paying a one time $800 fee to get a good external GPS with in-flight weather is a very attractive deal.

My 32MB WiFi only iPad is super nice. The new iPad mini would also be nice but it doesn't have the super clear the retina display...

And to be fair...I have heard great things about WingX but I have no experience with it.

I still have a lot to learn about all of this fun stuff...
 
Jay Honeck said:
Well, more precisely, Steve Jobs announced that Flash was dead, and didn't include support for it in the iPad, iPhone, etc. Once that happened, Google followed suit with later versions of Android OS.

IMHO it became a self-fulfilling prophecy, and now Flash really IS dead -- except for all those thousands of websites that still use it because it works just fine. :rolleyes:
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On desktop machines where it's unholy affinity for resources is tempered by idle bored processors.

For those who know Jay, you'll also know that Jobs carefully and articulately stated what was wrong with Flash on mobile platforms, and didn't just call it "dead" without cause, but Jay likes to exaggerate.

The video is on YouTube if you're skeptical of my statement. The reason no one supports Flash natively on mobile platforms is a mixture of awful performance for what it's accomplishing crushing battery life, and Adobe being run by some really disagreeable people.

Now that's the real reason, but it's not much talked about in public.

I'd love to play you recordings of my time in hell dealing with one particular Adobe exec, but for purposes of job security, none of us at my former employer ever recorded him. I will state that he was the most disagreeable person I've ever been forced to provide customer service to, and continue by saying that it was cultural and no one enjoyed supporting them. The only support engineer who could stomach them was young, willing to argue with the Adobe guy nearly constantly just to keep his attention away from calling the CEO which he did on a weekly basis with complaints, and was bucking for a promotion.
 
bajadrifter said:
My second choice setup would be an iPad 3 with Garmin Pilot and the GDL 39. Paying a one time $800 fee to get a good external GPS with in-flight weather is a very attractive deal.
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That's what I've flown with since OSH. It's a nice set up, and it was nice to get rid of XM, and that monthly bill.
 
OK - next question. Now that I have Garmin Pilot set up, anyone have recommendations on a W&B app for Nexus?
 
Check with Jesse. He has one for iOS. Maybe he's working on an Android version.
 
Search for "yeno" on the Google play store. That's the author's name and one of his apps is called "Weight & Balance". It works great, gives you a graph and warns you when you're over.
 
Challenged said:
Search for "yeno" on the Google play store. That's the author's name and one of his apps is called "Weight & Balance". It works great, gives you a graph and warns you when you're over.
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Cool. I just installed it and was setting up some things. It works pretty well but I did have a problem with one a/c I use because it has an arm that doesn't have a match in the app. I'll try to work around it. But it does look like it'll work just fine.
 
Challenged said:
Search for "yeno" on the Google play store. That's the author's name and one of his apps is called "Weight & Balance". It works great, gives you a graph and warns you when you're over.
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Itsthew and b app all metric only?
 
No. There is as setting for US units. It's in there someplace. On the main screen, touch in the bottom right corner and it will pull up a setting button.
 
Matthew said:
OK - next question. Now that I have Garmin Pilot set up, anyone have recommendations on a W&B app for Nexus?
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Sorry. I own a plane where weight and balance don't matter, so I don't have an app for it. :D
 
I've been playing with this Nexus most of the day, and my kids have been killing angry birds. Battery is down to 9%, after 11 hours.
 
Matthew said:
I've been playing with this Nexus most of the day, and my kids have been killing angry birds. Battery is down to 9%, after 11 hours.
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The Nexus 7 is like a warm puppy that worms its way into your life. Soon, you'll find yourself taking it everywhere, and talking to it. It's everything I wanted the iPad to be.
 
Jay Honeck said:
The Nexus 7 is like a warm puppy that worms its way into your life. Soon, you'll find yourself taking it everywhere, and talking to it. It's everything I wanted the iPad to be.
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Get a grip! :D

Cheers
 
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