iOS 13

Oh it’s that bad. In the phone world anyway. I could throw any wired or mobile phone against a wall as hard as I could throw it when I started in telecom. And it would still work afterward.

Yeah, but there'd be a giant hole in the wall where your tank phone went flying through it. :rofl:

(and dangit, you made me hit the 10,500 character post limit for only the second time in history - congratulations! :rofl:)

It’s 30%. And 2 x 30% per incident to do two replacements. You do have to read what I say not what you assume I said, but that probably explains why you say it’s a rant. Ha. Every word.

I actually do. I went and looked it up. If I were to go and order a new 256GB iPhone 11 Pro today (which is probably what I'd get, which is why I picked it!) the cost to add AppleCare+ is 17.3% of the purchase price - And under 100% of the cost of a screen replacement, which is why I always buy it (and it is the one and only "coverage" I ever buy on any electronics item). On an iPhone Xr it's 24.8%.

FWIW, I think Apple should actually move to a percent-of-purchase-price model for AppleCare+. Their current pricing tends to be a higher percentage on lower-end equipment. As such, we bought it for the high-end laptops the CEO and I use, and skipped it on the lower-end ones everyone else gets because the cost of getting it was high enough that we might as well have just kept a spare machine on hand.

Hell if I know! LOL. They all talk about what they buy at the annual Steam sale and throughout the year and I count it up and it’s impressive. I suppose they think the same thing about me paying $500 to fill an airplane with gas to fly to nowhere around here in flyover country. “Where’d you fly to?” “Pueblo.” LOL.

What I can't fathom is the people who actually spend money to watch OTHER people play games!!! We have an employee who makes a couple thousand dollars a month by going online and playing video games for a couple hours a night. Crazy.

Yup. That OS still completely kicks Apple‘a ass for built in corporate control functionality and centralized management. Like Apple’s still is, and easily will remain, over a decade, maybe two, behind.

I think Apple and the enterprise market finally decided it was time for a divorce about a decade ago. Apple has a long history of just absolutely screwing their enterprise customers. The AWS/AISS line, the XServe line, and other examples where Apple supported a product long enough to get it out in the market, and then just dropped it suddenly and without warning.
 
If it sucks, don’t release it.

That only works for a limited amount of time before the bank account runs dry and all those engineers who were working on making it not suck are looking for new jobs.

“We can either add a lane to the bridge or fix the fact that we built it wrong and it’s about to fall down, not both.”

In any other engineering discipline, that’s how you get sued. You have contractual obligations to meet standards.

Which is why software engineering, isn’t real engineering.

Yep. :rolleyes:

Real Aeronautical engineers design planes that cannot crash.
Real Civil engineers design bridges that'll never fall down, and roads that never cause accidents.
Real Electrical engineers design power plants that are 100% efficient and electronics that never let out the magic smoke.
Real Mechanical engineers design cars that never require any maintenance.

Etc.

Engineering is all about making things work within an acceptable tolerance. NOTHING is perfect. An engineer's job is to choose the right ways to design a product that has the right compromises to allow for the most customers to be happy for the right price. The good ol' "Fast, cheap, easy, pick two."
 
That only works for a limited amount of time before the bank account runs dry and all those engineers who were working on making it not suck are looking for new jobs.



Yep. :rolleyes:

Real Aeronautical engineers design planes that cannot crash.
Real Civil engineers design bridges that'll never fall down, and roads that never cause accidents.
Real Electrical engineers design power plants that are 100% efficient and electronics that never let out the magic smoke.
Real Mechanical engineers design cars that never require any maintenance.

Etc.

Engineering is all about making things work within an acceptable tolerance. NOTHING is perfect. An engineer's job is to choose the right ways to design a product that has the right compromises to allow for the most customers to be happy for the right price. The good ol' "Fast, cheap, easy, pick two."
Unless you're a politician.

For the last 40-50 years in the US, we've been moving to zero-tolerance, zero-failure system. Why all the recalls? Because Sen. blowhard and his compatriots have declared that the American people shall not be subject to any risk, no matter how minuscule. And it's getting worse, not better.

It's actually surprising that products are not more expensive than they currently are given that removing risk has financial consequences.

Better to leave it there than continue a loud and long rant.
 
Unless you're a politician.

For the last 40-50 years in the US, we've been moving to zero-tolerance, zero-failure system. Why all the recalls? Because Sen. blowhard and his compatriots have declared that the American people shall not be subject to any risk, no matter how minuscule. And it's getting worse, not better.

It's actually surprising that products are not more expensive than they currently are given that removing risk has financial consequences.

Better to leave it there than continue a loud and long rant.

I probably don't even have to go look up any quotes or legislation to know that you're speaking of the senior senator from New York, do I? My second least favorite Senator.
 
Ahem. It would be nice if we didn't get this thread locked because of politics...
 
That only works for a limited amount of time before the bank account runs dry and all those engineers who were working on making it not suck are looking for new jobs.

OS manufacturers are a long loooong way from that kind of money problem. They’d have a PR problem, but they have droves of Marketing people already working against their customers best interests. Might as well give them a real challenge and tell them to explain that quality code takes time.

Yep. :rolleyes:

Real Aeronautical engineers design planes that cannot crash.
Real Civil engineers design bridges that'll never fall down, and roads that never cause accidents.
Real Electrical engineers design power plants that are 100% efficient and electronics that never let out the magic smoke.
Real Mechanical engineers design cars that never require any maintenance.

Etc.

Engineering is all about making things work within an acceptable tolerance. NOTHING is perfect. An engineer's job is to choose the right ways to design a product that has the right compromises to allow for the most customers to be happy for the right price. The good ol' "Fast, cheap, easy, pick two."

The acceptable tolerance is abysmal. Airplanes and roads break very infrequently. It’s big news when they do.

It’s not big news at a ALL for crap software to crash and burn. One could easily go their whole life never driving on a faulty road or crashing in an airplane due to a real engineering level of work on them. Software doesn’t deserve to be ANYWHERE near the term “engineered.”

Most of that is discipline and culture. I only know three coders who could keep the engine title if I decided such things. Bugs in their code was so surprising nobody ever looked there first. But they existed to be an example of what is possible, and still exist I suppose. They’re all still alive and coding, anyway.

I had the fun of actually catching the best one in an error of string parsing when my code talking to his got a close but not quite correct result over a network API he wrote. He was so embarrassed it bugged him (pun intended) for a week. He did the classic off by one counting from zero error parsing the string in C.

The second writes low level firmware for HP.

The third wrote low level telecom code and billing code. And I believe I have already mentioned that telecom billing and control code is a couple of offers of magnitude better quality than most code I’ve seen. Really good software engineers tended to gravitate toward that sort of thing.

The vast majority of coders, including the ones who give all the best and standard excuses like the “three things” speech regularly in meetings, don’t hold a candle to those three. Real software engineers are rare. But much of that is in the entire biz not having anything even close to rigorous standards. These three set their own standards.

Web coding is by far the worst, with people who have absolutely no knowledge of how to engineer anything, slapping garbage on web pages attached to even worst non-data-normalized databases. So awful. Never scales. Total tinker toy junk.

Anyway how this relates to OS makers? Their output is middle of the road between those two extremes except when it comes to security. They’re down barely above the garbage web coders. Gone backward even. We did once have OSes that could be dropped on a public IP with default settings and they wouldn’t be hackable... you can’t do that with any modern OS today. Well... OpenBSD probably.

We all throw a LOT of money at the problem that OSes are inherently insecure. It’s stupid. A house with a cracked foundation eventually falls over. Hundreds of billions and patch after patch after patch. All it needs is a slightly more disciplined approach and it would be world’s better.

It’s just economics. If dummies will pay $1000 for something broken and needing multiple updates before they even take it out of the box, then nobody will bother being disciplined about anything that went into the pretty origami box with the nice embossed logo on it.

The marketing people took more pride in what they released as a box to put it in, than the stuff inside the box. Wrong color on the logo? Don’t ship it. Remake the box. Wrong font? Don’t ship it. Remake the box. Etc.

I’ve personally stopped releases on Change Control Boards. In one days it was how I got tasked to learn REXX to shrink wrap a database repair and reinstall tool the product absolutely had to have for the field and didn’t at CCB day. That tool had ONE bug filed against it in ten years the product was on the market.

Same with a major ISPs Linux server architecture for various customer facing “if it fails it brings every customer down” stuff. I was happy to learn after I left the place they continued operating that architecture for over ten years without anything but standard hardware failures that it was designed/ENGINEERED to handle with no downtime. Ever. Downtime wasn’t even a thing for that service. It has to run or the company is not in business. It was designed for maintenance without stopping operating.

And frankly I’m a hack compared to those three guys I mentioned. Theirs would keep running and offer to make you coffee while you’re replacing the failed component.

OS makers sitting on mountains of cash could easily find people who care enough to do this level of work. They simply don’t need to. Consumers will buy garbage in their world.

Customers don’t take some stuff not working lightly. Other stuff they put up with crap quality and keep buying year after year, believing there’s no way to demand better.

One company’s motto was “Uptime, all the time.” Culture and standards. And the standard was outages could be a fireable offense. It attracted some very sharp people who enjoyed it. And one guy who was fired after his third outage. He was given two chances. He literally cried in the back parking lot the day he was fired.

Nobody said anything mean, but man, you were told not to do that stuff and you did it twice more. Nobody standing here is surprised you’re gone. We don’t do whatever you got used to doing elsewhere, here.
 
So, if you're given the choice between writing something that takes advantage of your latest and greatest hardware vs writing something that's optimized for hardware that's several years old, what would you do?

We had that problem all the time in telecom. We wrote for both and deprecated features on the older gear while not abandoning it. The customer’s investment was respected and they still got all updates for the software but the software knew not to run new features that would tax the old hardware or the old hardware simply couldn’t do.

It really wasn’t that hard. Because we had a culture of NOT disrespecting yesterday’s customers.

If you think your answers will be any different than Tim Cook's, maybe you should go to Apple's board and tell them how much better you'd do. If your answers are correct, they're sure to hire you!

LOL. First Apple’s Board is full of people running companies with nearly identical culture and values as Apple. BoDs are more about patting each other on the back these days than actual corporate governance, and that’s not a sentiment I only hold. That’s coming from all sides. Not just technical leaders.

I haven't had time to even pay attention to much of what's in it. I upgraded as of 13.1.2 and it's worked just fine. It's got automatic dark mode, but other than that I haven't had a chance to notice much difference. Shortcuts sounds like it could be really cool but I literally have not opened it once yet.

There’s many lists online but ironically you’ve hit on one of the only two actual useful ones. Dark Mode. Hahaha. That’s the second best feature. Blocking calls from anyone not in Contacts is the number one. That’s it. The release is really feature poor.

No, it's not. Apple has done more to make backup simple and effective than any other company, so that its users shouldn't have to work with data recovery services. You have to try hard to not back up your Apple gear these days. If you need a data recovery service, that's your own fault.

Complete ********. It’s really easy for Apple backups to go wrong, or someone to say, spill something on a mobile device after a long day or month of work offline. Data recovery will always be required. And Louis and others wouldn’t be in the business of doing it, if it wasn’t.

The easiest example of this is simply unplug a USB external drive from a Mac doing a backup. Oh sure I’ll warn you that the disk was ejected improperly but it will NOT warn you that your backup is incomplete. Sounds innocuous enough for a savvy user who knows the two are connected, but all the backup software does is go into standby and waits to try again. I’ve seen this behavior combined with a less than savvy user and a dodgy USB drive keep tossing the drive eject error and user never once made the connection that their backups they set to “automatic” weren’t working for months. They didn’t report the problem because if they unplugged the USB drive and plugged it back in, it would work for about half a backup. They didn’t look to see “last backup date” in Time Machjne.

And that’s just one of a multiple of ways I’ve seen Apple backups fail. On laptops and iOS devices. In many cases iCloud not an option because the data on the machines was not allowed offsite. Ever. Quite common in corporate computing. Doesn’t matter how much anyone trusts Apple’s “cloud”, data not allowed in it. Period.

Point being, backups are not a replacement for data recovery. Things are going to happen. Always.

I never watched him, and I'm not aware of what you're talking about... And frankly, I don't care. He hosts entertaining, informative shows and is very good at what he does.

Most of the people who’ve worked with him say he’s an awful person, after they’ve left. But if you haven’t looked into it, he plays the nice guy role for the camera well.

Also, sorry, I don't really believe you when it comes to everyone being cross platform everywhere. IME, that's quite rare. Most companies don't give two ****s if their IT people are cross platform. They usually only use a single major platform, and if they do use multiple platforms generally have specialists in each platform and managers who are aware of what's going on on both platforms but don't have the skills to actually administer machines on both platforms. Companies that use multiple platforms and are too small to support specialists on both are pretty rare in general. Telecom may be different.

Long ago I would have said it relates to size and that big companies don’t have generalists, but we have to because we only have three staff members. But working at those larger companies I found the reality was there were a large low level group that only knew one technology or a couple, front line IT, then there were a middle range of specialists cranking away on projects in their specialty and they were REALLY really good at ONE thing. DBAs for example. And then you found the same cross platform people as at the small places at the TOP of the food chain at the really big IT shops. They had to understand all of it and how it integrated together or the whole mess would fall apart.

Usually consultants were brought in for that middle layer when a lot of work needed to be done on ONE thing.

Nowadays sometimes the big places give them titles like “Architect” but often they’re still just listed as “Senior Engineer” and get assigned to go fix things the two lower levels can’t figure out. Or like my thing at one place, I was listed as “Corporate Engineer”, and everyone knew I was tasked with a Linux specialization in a team that were all cross platform people but if your project was on Linux, you called me first. Didn’t keep me from getting dragged into Power, Cable Plant, Rooftop Chiller Troubleshooting, Generator Failures, Battery System Engineering, and of course, training and teaching. It just meant that for those items the buck stopped on the guy or gal next to me’s desk, but they couldn’t be everywhere at once. And the buck stopped at my desk for all that ran on Linux platforms. I spent as much time at my desk at HQ as I did traveling to operational sites. Even had a “buck stops with you now in Phoenix building turn up and occupancy” when the GM there had to leave town unexpectedly. Hopped a plane and got it done. Was the senior person on site over everyone there for two weeks just to cover for the GM. Just how the job works at the jack of all trades level.

Here is the statement I clipped: "In the TECH world? Hell yes. Burger flippers. They don't even know enough to be hired as a Jr. IT person at most companies, because the company IT guy or gal has to know software and hardware basics, as well as network and other basics, AND must know it cross platform."

It does not contain the word "Only".

Ahh. Okay. Only was in the wrong place. But still... generally if someone has a skill set they’re not working there. A few. For reasons you mentioned, but you can do a lot better in this town anyway, than that.

And frankly I’ve saved a few folks from wing screwed in the stores with bad Genius advice. Two anyway.

Apple really needs a corporate support path. My Dell rep doesn’t ask any of us a half hour of questions when we say a machine is broken, he dispatches a contractor in a truck to come fix it, usually same day. And it’s as cheap as AppleCare+. That’s the amazing part. We’re quite happy to pay it. Repairability. Local parts availability, laptops, desktops, servers, it doesn’t matter.

Anyway, yeah as always Apple needs to spend some of that cash they’re sitting on and get business support right. Driving a damn laptop to them or shipping it off for two or three days is junior league.

I think the SaaS trend has come about due to ...

I'm not saying I like it - But I absolutely understand it.

Yeah interesting trend. The “spreading of liability” is an interesting one. You can buy SaaS failure insurance now. Seriously. It’s a thing.

I'm having a hard time even thinking of anything Apple does in the SaaS space?

Also interesting. You’re right. They don’t do much rental of software. I’m surprised they don’t rent Final Cut monthly really. Their Office suite still kinda sucks for business. Sheets can’t compete with Excel. Adobe makes a fortune renting their stuff now.

Hey, at least they put the entire UI through a blender every so often so that they can sell a bunch of training materials for the new version! :rolleyes: :rofl:

Hahahaha. I hate that. But I avoid GUI changes on most every OS by staying at the command line, like a real computer should be used anyway. Haha. Speaking of that, Powershell is absolute crap syntax-wise but it can really do some powerful stuff and really easily.

Meanwhile I’m not so sure about this silliness of Apple going to zsh over bash. ;)
 
^^^ THAT was incredibly hard to edit with the new BS cursor movement and word selection crap on iOS.

Damn that sucked. I really hate that I can’t just stick the damn cursor where I want it anymore. Apple screwed up the UX on that. Big time.

Frigging thing doesn’t even act like the digitizer is aligned right, it’ll put the cursor on the line above or below where you’re touching and select half a sentence.

Suuuuuuuper damn annoying.
 
That was incredibly hard to try to read. In the end, tl;dr.

He really takes this Apple stuff personally. Maybe he walked in on Tim Cook diddling his cat - I dunno. :)
 
I thought 13.x.x was to improve battery life not destroy it

It didn’t seem to hurt mine, but Safari is definitely more buggy than before. As @denverpilot would say, it’s my fault for using Safari to begin with (and he’s right)!
 
I thought 13.x.x was to improve battery life not destroy it

For the last few OS releases, the battery life tanks for the first few days and then gets better. It's because the device is re-learning how you go about your day so that, for example, it can tell you how traffic is on your way to the office in the morning, and other predictive stuff. Give it a week and it should be back to normal.

Why they don't save this stuff across the major OS releases, I'm not sure. Might be related to how they handle the upgrades under the hood.
 
OS manufacturers are a long loooong way from that kind of money problem. They’d have a PR problem, but they have droves of Marketing people already working against their customers best interests. Might as well give them a real challenge and tell them to explain that quality code takes time.

Meanwhile, their competition would be offering lower quality code that still had an acceptable level of uptime and 10x as many features with the same number of developers, and that company would be eating their lunch.

At least Apple stuff crashes nicely now. It self-detects, self-reboots, and opens up everything as it was before the crash. They built auto-save and recover into the main file handling APIs, so it should be completely seamless.

Software doesn’t deserve to be ANYWHERE near the term “engineered.”

As I said before: "Engineered" doesn't mean "100% reliable." It means that a product is designed to always work within an acceptable level of tolerance and cost.

Most of that is discipline and culture. I only know three coders who could keep the engine title if I decided such things. Bugs in their code was so surprising nobody ever looked there first. But they existed to be an example of what is possible, and still exist I suppose. They’re all still alive and coding, anyway.

Just because someone is a good coder doesn't make them a "software engineer" and a software engineer is not necessarily a good coder.

LOL. First Apple’s Board is full of people running companies with nearly identical culture and values as Apple. BoDs are more about patting each other on the back these days than actual corporate governance, and that’s not a sentiment I only hold. That’s coming from all sides. Not just technical leaders.

The board's responsibility is to hire a CEO who runs the company in such a way as to maximize profit for the shareholders. Period. That's it.

The easiest example of this is simply unplug a USB external drive from a Mac doing a backup. Oh sure I’ll warn you that the disk was ejected improperly but it will NOT warn you that your backup is incomplete. Sounds innocuous enough for a savvy user who knows the two are connected, but all the backup software does is go into standby and waits to try again. I’ve seen this behavior combined with a less than savvy user and a dodgy USB drive keep tossing the drive eject error and user never once made the connection that their backups they set to “automatic” weren’t working for months. They didn’t report the problem because if they unplugged the USB drive and plugged it back in, it would work for about half a backup. They didn’t look to see “last backup date” in Time Machjne.

Except Time Machine *DOES* warn you if your backup fails repeatedly. It doesn't set off nuisance alarms every hour when you screw up the USB drive, but it WILL warn you if your backup goes days out of date. If someone ignores the warnings, it ain't really Apple's fault.

And that’s just one of a multiple of ways I’ve seen Apple backups fail. On laptops and iOS devices. In many cases iCloud not an option because the data on the machines was not allowed offsite. Ever. Quite common in corporate computing. Doesn’t matter how much anyone trusts Apple’s “cloud”, data not allowed in it. Period.

In corporate computing, one could reasonably expect that the IT department would have something better than iCloud for backup. FWIW, I have never used iCloud backup; it's still pathetically easy to have a 3-2-1 backup strategy in place.

Also interesting. You’re right. They don’t do much rental of software. I’m surprised they don’t rent Final Cut monthly really. Their Office suite still kinda sucks for business. Sheets can’t compete with Excel.

Sheets is Google, not Apple.

Meanwhile I’m not so sure about this silliness of Apple going to zsh over bash. ;)

I used to use tcsh back when I was on unix much more frequently. I've never gotten religious about shells, though.
 
He really takes this Apple stuff personally. Maybe he walked in on Tim Cook diddling his cat - I dunno. :)

That’s the funny thing. I don’t. Tracking tech behavior of various OSs and tools and picking on their fan boys is just background noise for me.

It’s just that there aren’t any rabid fanboys of the other stuff here. A) They generally don’t do the marketing wank stuff as much, and B) Everybody here mostly meets the rich white guy buyer of Apple stuff along with a forced need of it by Foreflight.

So a very homogenous group here compared to tech forums. We don’t have any good reason to bash the other stuff. Nobody claiming it’s better than it really is, here. :)
 
^^^ THAT was incredibly hard to edit with the new BS cursor movement and word selection crap on iOS.

Damn that sucked. I really hate that I can’t just stick the damn cursor where I want it anymore. Apple screwed up the UX on that. Big time.

Frigging thing doesn’t even act like the digitizer is aligned right, it’ll put the cursor on the line above or below where you’re touching and select half a sentence.

Suuuuuuuper damn annoying.
That's new? I've ALWAYS had major difficulty editing text messages on the iPhone. Ever since I started texting with friends, since probably 8 or 9 years ago. It's been a priority peeve of mine. Never been able to stick the cursor where I wanted it, or select a word or a phrase.
 
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