Ionosphere VHF skipping - what's your farthest?

nyoung

nyoung

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Nathan young
I flew from Chicago to Colorado a few weeks ago, and while in Eastern Nebraska (near Wahoo, NE - AHQ) , both the approach controllers and I heard several calls that must have been ionosphere skips.

One to Madison Approach on 120.10. (342nm)
Another to a Minnesota airport, I believe Duluth (386nm)

Any interesting skip stories from the members of POA ?
 
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Not while in a plane, but when I was monitoring the 2-meter amateur radio band (144 - 148 Mhz) a few years back, I heard a guy, plain as day, from Texas. I live in Minnesota.
 
when i was a kid in Estherville, IA I once was able to pick up an FM radio station from Kansas City. it was early in the morning and IIRC the air was humid. thats ~ 250 nautical miles, but with no altitude to help out.
 
tonycondon said:
when i was a kid in Estherville, IA I once was able to pick up an FM radio station from Kansas City. it was early in the morning and IIRC the air was humid. thats ~ 250 nautical miles, but with no altitude to help out.
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Longest FM ducting I've received was WBLI transmitting from Patchogue, Longuyland (Central Long Island, NY) to Cuyuga, NY (Finger Lakes).

HF- I used to pick up New Delhi in India to NJ.
 
Somewhere I have a TV QSL from a Wichita TV station, received in the suburbs of DC.
 
Anyone want a cool experiment to try...

Find an FM station that's a couple-hundred miles away, but the frequency is free in your area. You'll just hear static.

Now, find a time when there's a meteor shower happening...http://www.theskyscrapers.org/meteors/

You'll be able to "hear" the meteors. As they hit the upper atmosphere, the for an ion trail that will bounce FM signals back down and you'll hear little snippets of music...I presume it might work with VHF too...
 
While in the Army I was trying to open a firing range near Boise Idaho. We couldn't reach Range Control, probably less than 10 miles away but were able to talk to Range Control at Fort Benning, GA. No problem, We just had the Fort Benning Range Control Telephone the Boise Range Control and relay our request for us.

Brian
 
In 1971/72, while in Vietnam, I was flying one of the few UH-1s with a HF Radio. I was on the ground with the engine running, waiting for a passenger and playing with the HF to kill time, when I started hearing music. In fact the song, for those who might remember, was "I've Got a Brand New Pair of Roller Skates" and I believe the performer was named Melanie.

I listened for awhile and the station identified itself as a radio station in Albany, GA, however I can't remember the station letters. I have no idea if it was an AM or FM station, or how I was able to pick it up on HF. Just found it odd, and was never able to receive it again.
 
nyoung said:
I flew from Chicago to Colorado a few weeks ago, and while in Eastern Nebraska (near Wahoo, NE - AHQ) , both the approach controllers and I heard several calls that must have been ionosphere skips.

One to Madison Approach on 120.10. (342nm)
Another to a Minnesota airport, I believe Duluth (386nm)

Any interesting skip stories from the members of POA ?
Click to expand...

Sounds potentially like tropospheric ducting. West coast to Hawaii on 2 meters (144 MHz to 148 MHz) is not unheard of. The right weather conditions (ionosphere has nothing to do with this path) and away you go.
 
nyoung said:
I flew from Chicago to Colorado a few weeks ago, and while in Eastern Nebraska (near Wahoo, NE - AHQ) , both the approach controllers and I heard several calls that must have been ionosphere skips.

One to Madison Approach on 120.10. (342nm)
Another to a Minnesota airport, I believe Duluth (386nm)

Any interesting skip stories from the members of POA ?
Click to expand...


With enough altitude wouldn't that still be line of sight? I've heard planes from over 150nm away that sounded like they were in formation with me.
 
nyoung said:
I flew from Chicago to Colorado a few weeks ago, and while in Eastern Nebraska (near Wahoo, NE - AHQ) , both the approach controllers and I heard several calls that must have been ionosphere skips.

One to Madison Approach on 120.10. (342nm)
Another to a Minnesota airport, I believe Duluth (386nm)

Any interesting skip stories from the members of POA ?
Click to expand...
It would not be ionospheric propagation. Sporadic E is the most likely culprit and that happens at the troposphere instead of the stratosphere.

The further I have communication on VHF (144MHz) was Chicago to LA via meteor scatter using WSJT.

Voice I have easily spoke to guy in Florida. On 6m (50MHz) I spoke with a guy in Cuba.
 
EdFred said:
With enough altitude wouldn't that still be line of sight? I've heard planes from over 150nm away that sounded like they were in formation with me.
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The approach controller heard the calls too. Since ATC's antenna is land based, at that distance, i think in that scenario, it had to be skipping.

But I do agree with you on air:air. You can get pretty long distances with this. Recently, a friend was following us home, and he left hours after us (but in a faster plane). We picked each other up on air:air frequency about 150nm apart. He was west of Salina-KS, and I was just over Lees Summit, MO.
 
As a kid traveling in the car home from Grand parents in NY to Philly we once picked up a station in Chicago.
 
AM, as a child in New York ( Long Island ) I would routinely get Chicago stations on a POS am radio
 
I was on maneuvers in Ft. Benning, GA in 1969 and heard the radio side of a fire fight in the Delta of Vietnam on the PRC-77.

Recently, 2m has been open on the amateur bands. From Iowa City, I've talked with hams in Mpls, Stl Cloud, Springfield MO, Springfield IL and WI.
 
As a kid, especially when we were working late pulling the wheat crop in in Saskatchewan, we used to listen to KOA in Denver and KSL in Salt Lake City all the time at night, but that's AM!
 
Near Santa Barbara, CA the highest mountaintop is Santa Ynez Peak, about 4000 feet elevation overlooking the Pacific. There are numerous radio facilities on it, including an RCO of L.A. Approach. I've heard that on occasion they hear aircraft on the ground in Hawaii, where the frequency is or was used for Ground Control.

I haven't observed that, but do remember an occasion when the local ham radio operators started hearing Hawaii coming in on the 2-Meter Amateur Band (144-148 MHz). Some of them headed up the hill to find the best signals - and, IIRC - found them part way up (not on top). I believe the phenomenon that produces such a path is known as "Ducting", and is normally the result of weather conditions (usually a temperature inversion). However, Ionospheric "skip" is occasionally (though rarely) observed above 100 MHz, and produces signal propagation over distances of hundreds to thousands of miles. Either way, VHF transmissions are heard much further away than in normal circumstances.

Dave
 
EdFred said:
With enough altitude wouldn't that still be line of sight? I've heard planes from over 150nm away that sounded like they were in formation with me.
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No, Ed. I really was in formation with you. ;)
 
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I can remember sitting on the tailgate of my grandad's truck when he had his CB on and we heard Chinese/Japanese/Asian voices on the radio. I can remember him saying it had something to do with skip.
 
ghogue said:
In 1971/72, while in Vietnam, I was flying one of the few UH-1s with a HF Radio. I was on the ground with the engine running, waiting for a passenger and playing with the HF to kill time, when I started hearing music. In fact the song, for those who might remember, was "I've Got a Brand New Pair of Roller Skates" and I believe the performer was named Melanie.

I listened for awhile and the station identified itself as a radio station in Albany, GA, however I can't remember the station letters. I have no idea if it was an AM or FM station, or how I was able to pick it up on HF. Just found it odd, and was never able to receive it again.
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ARGG!!!!! Now I have that stupid song in my head and it'll be there ALL DAY!!!!! Thanks for NOTHING!!!!!!!


:D
 
ghogue said:
In 1971/72, while in Vietnam, I was flying one of the few UH-1s with a HF Radio. I was on the ground with the engine running, waiting for a passenger and playing with the HF to kill time, when I started hearing music. In fact the song, for those who might remember, was "I've Got a Brand New Pair of Roller Skates" and I believe the performer was named Melanie.

I listened for awhile and the station identified itself as a radio station in Albany, GA, however I can't remember the station letters. I have no idea if it was an AM or FM station, or how I was able to pick it up on HF. Just found it odd, and was never able to receive it again.
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It was most likely HF and you were picking up VoA or one of the myriad of shortwave stations that were around in the states at that time. There are not many left and almost all are religious in nature now.

Oh and the station you probably heard was WGTG.
 
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jnmeade said:
I was on maneuvers in Ft. Benning, GA in 1969 and heard the radio side of a fire fight in the Delta of Vietnam on the PRC-77.

Recently, 2m has been open on the amateur bands. From Iowa City, I've talked with hams in Mpls, Stl Cloud, Springfield MO, Springfield IL and WI.
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That's some interesting propagation on low VHF. Just the whip, or were you hooked up to a more substantial antenna?
 
Ghery said:
That's some interesting propagation on low VHF. Just the whip, or were you hooked up to a more substantial antenna?
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We were using the 10 ft whip, not the 3 ft steel tape. I don't remember which band we were on. 30.0-52.95 or 53-75.95. The transmission lasted maybe 10-15 minutes and one could hear the typical fading and other attributes of ducting.
 
Ghery said:
That's some interesting propagation on low VHF. Just the whip, or were you hooked up to a more substantial antenna?
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It sure is, the PRC-77 is capable of 30MHz operation, but even then 9meters, during a sunspot event might be able to do it. I am pretty sure he would have had to be hearing it long path, which makes things even more interesting.
 
smigaldi said:
It was most likely HF and you were picking up VoA or one of the myriad of shortwave stations that were around in the states at that time. There are not many left and almost all are religious in nature now.

Oh and the station you probably heard was WGTG.
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Sounds good, but did VoA broadcast other stations call letters, or were they just rebroadcasting the program? Not really an issue for me, just a bit curious since you mentioned it.
 
ghogue said:
Sounds good, but did VoA broadcast other stations call letters, or were they just rebroadcasting the program? Not really an issue for me, just a bit curious since you mentioned it.
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Well the other thing it could have been too was someone local broadcasting tapes like the AFRTS.

Not sure if VoA was rebroadcasting shows.
 
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