International trip help

Tristar

Tristar

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Tristar
Hey guys,

I'm planning a trip to France and Germany for vacation in November. Paris and Bavaria (Neuschwanstein castle) are on the list so far. Will be there for about a week split between the two places. I know many of you have traveled over seas so I would love some ideas! Unique ideas are definitely a plus!

Thanks!
Tristar
 
Sorry Tristan. Started out sounding like you were self-flying. And the BS route has long been a dream of mine. Have fun in Europe.
 
It's been awhile for me, but Cafe De La Paix in Paris had a wonderful outdoor patio where one could have a drink or coffee and people watch. I still remember seeing the sea of folks streaming by and wondering where they were from and what they were doing there. All the normal France stuff: lots of stained glass in churches--take a guided tour. The tour folks there have high standards and know a lot of the history. The boat ride on the river is great as are the museums. We also went to the wine country and I still have a bottle of Dom Perignon from there (probably spoiled now). I went to some of the battle fields which may not appeal to you. Seeing the Normandy beaches would be a thrill for me.

Best,

Dave
 
Spend 1.5days at the Louvre in Paris, break it up into sections of history that you want to see. Gotta see all the Renaissance stuff on one day and then second half day see their Egypt collection from all the stuff plundered by Napoleon from Egypt.

Also see the Museum d'Orsay for all the impressionist stuff. Nortre Dame, Sainte Chapelle (especially the windows!!!). Have dinner in the latin quarter, be sure to have a kir royale as an apertif.

For food, French food is fantastic. Have lunch at a bistro, simple bread and cheese with a glass of the house red is wonderful. Stay away from anything that has the word RIS as part of the name. FYI ric is equal to rice, ris is not stuff you will want to eat. pan chocolate is joyful as a breakfast snack.

Do go tot Arc d'Triumph and go to the top, walk the Champs Elysee and window shop, if you have time a trip out to Versailles is something to do as well. Many, many things to do in Paris.


Munich is a wonderful city too. The airport is fantastic and offers easy train access to downtown. In addition to the castle that you want to see take a trip out to Dachau for a sobering reminder of modern man's cruelty to other human beings. In Munich the Marianplatz is something to beholds and of course you have to go to a beer garden in Munich!!! EAT!

Europe, where you are going is easy to survive on English, but learn a few local words and you will go far. Currency is all Euros and travel is easy on the train as well as intercity flights. Thankfully interEurope travel is not as ridiculous as American interstate flying. Power is all 220VAC 50Hz, check your chargers and see if they already support that voltage and then all you will need is a plug adapter. Europlug is what they use. If you have a GSM phone set it up for roaming but I highly recommend that if you contract is paid off on your phone to get it unlocked and then buy a local SIM card to save money. For example I am in Greece right now and am paying $2.29/minute with $.50/SMS outbound $.05/SMS inbound. France is cheaper at $1.29/minute.

Other than that what questions do you have?
 
Tristar said:
Hey guys,

I'm planning a trip to France and Germany for vacation in November. Paris and Bavaria (Neuschwanstein castle) are on the list so far. Will be there for about a week split between the two places. I know many of you have traveled over seas so I would love some ideas! Unique ideas are definitely a plus!

Thanks!
Tristar
Click to expand...

Rottenburg ob de Taube, a small picturesque old walled town is a nice place to see. Are you renting a car or Training it? Trier is an old Roman Empire city. What are your interests? Grass France you can take a perfume making class during which you can blend up your own batch to your liking, that's always fun.
 
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I imagine I'll have more questions as the trip gets closer. Right now I'm mainly looking for ideas of things to do. More than likely, it'll be 2 days in Paris, 3-4 in Germany. I love history but I want to make sure not to get museumed out so activities are awesome too.

Things to watch out for are good too since traveling out of the country will be a new experience for me.
 
Tristar said:
I imagine I'll have more questions as the trip gets closer. Right now I'm mainly looking for ideas of things to do. More than likely, it'll be 2 days in Paris, 3-4 in Germany. I love history but I want to make sure not to get museumed out so activities are awesome too.

Things to watch out for are good too since traveling out of the country will be a new experience for me.
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The primary question that governs things, will you have a car or are you stuck on the train?
 
The Wasserkuppe in Germany is the only reason I have any interest in going to Europe
 
Well, trains make the logistics of travelling a bit interesting. You can choose overnight trains and save on accommodations even if you get a sleeper car. It's probably the most efficient way if you want to see the places you're going, but not so great for seeing things along the way. They also kinda restrict where you can go since the train doesn't go quite everywhere. You can also waste a lot of time making connections if you want to see a lot of stuff. Going between major cities is great because the high speed rail, but the outlying services are not what the were when I was a kid. Do you have your rail passes yet? If not, you may want to compare their price with the price of a rental car for a week, you may be surprised. Sixt has good deals, Luxauto has the best deals on the diesel C2 Citroen that gets >50mpg. I was getting that for 120 Euro a week, but I'm not sure they have offices in France, I'm pretty sure they may just be Belgium and Luxemburg. BTW, you can also rent an Enzo Ferrari from Avis in Munich...
 
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Henning said:
Well, trains make the logistics of travelling a bit interesting. You can choose overnight trains and save on accommodations even if you get a sleeper car. It's probably the most efficient way if you want to see the places you're going, but not so great for seeing things along the way. They also kinda restrict where you can go since the train doesn't go quite everywhere. You can also waste a lot of time making connections if you want to see a lot of stuff. Going between major cities is great because the high speed rail, but the outlying services are not what the were when I was a kid. Do you have your rail passes yet? If not, you may want to compare their price with the price of a rental car for a week, you may be surprised. Sixt has good deals, Luxauto has the best deals on the diesel C2 Citroen that gets >50mpg. I was getting that for 120 Euro a week.
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One trick for rail passes that I used a lot was to never buy my pass from the US. There the Eurorail pass for 1st class travel. I would get an Interrail pass in the UK it was 2nd class travel in all countries but the one you bought it in. Since I lived in the UK at the time that was not a hardship. SImply caught a ride to the ferry with a friend and then used my rail pass everywhere I wanted to go.

Since Tristan is traveling France and Germany rail travel will be fast and simple.
 
Don't know if Henning was kidding or not, but no, you can't rent an Enzo anywhere. They only made 400. However, you CAN rent a 911 Turbo in Germany, which is probably as close as you get to supercar performance for rental cars.

A bit of advice - I would most definitely rent a car for whenever you're not in the major cities. It's cheap, and it will most likely be a lot cheaper than the train. There's a large selection of diesel cars that get >70 mpg. And if you do like the country more than the city, driving the alpine passes in the alps is amazing. For example, the Stelvio pass is incredible, but there's lots to choose from.

-Felix
 
You could also buy a nice M5 in Munich after watching it being made at the factory, drive it around Europe and then have it shipped home!!

Are Porsches allowed in Munich? ;)
 
sba55 said:
Don't know if Henning was kidding or not, but no, you can't rent an Enzo anywhere. They only made 400. However, you CAN rent a 911 Turbo in Germany, which is probably as close as you get to supercar performance for rental cars.

A bit of advice - I would most definitely rent a car for whenever you're not in the major cities. It's cheap, and it will most likely be a lot cheaper than the train. There's a large selection of diesel cars that get >70 mpg. And if you do like the country more than the city, driving the alpine passes in the alps is amazing. For example, the Stelvio pass is incredible, but there's lots to choose from.

-Felix
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Rental car prices have gotten way out of hand in Europe! I spent almost $500 US for a Cotroen C4 in the south of France two months ago. I was in Sophia Antipolis and one has to have a car there to get around. I am back there next months and have been shopping around for something cheaper. I would really like a Smart for the few days I am there, but will probably end up with a Mercedes 1 class.
 
ScottM said:
Rental car prices have gotten way out of hand in Europe! I spent almost $500 US for a Cotroen C4 in the south of France two months ago. I was in Sophia Antipolis and one has to have a car there to get around. I am back there next months and have been shopping around for something cheaper. I would really like a Smart for the few days I am there, but will probably end up with a Mercedes 1 class.
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You just need to know where and how to look. In Germany (and in Munich), a weekly rental for an economy class vehicle (such as a VW Polo) is usually less than $200. Much less than train tickets.

Just checked and Hertz is $190 for the week 9/10. I'm sure you could get this lower with a little bit of effort.
 
ScottM said:
Rental car prices have gotten way out of hand in Europe! I spent almost $500 US for a Cotroen C4 in the south of France two months ago. I was in Sophia Antipolis and one has to have a car there to get around. I am back there next months and have been shopping around for something cheaper. I would really like a Smart for the few days I am there, but will probably end up with a Mercedes 1 class.
Click to expand...

Unless you are confining your travel to a large city, the "Smart" is anything but - and in most large cities, a car is a stone around your neck. You can get all manner of cars for rental which are better cars than the Smart Car.

The Smart Car is remarkable for what it is, but what it is, ain't much.
 
SCCutler said:
Unless you are confining your travel to a large city, the "Smart" is anything but - and in most large cities, a car is a stone around your neck. You can get all manner of cars for rental which are better cars than the Smart Car.

The Smart Car is remarkable for what it is, but what it is, ain't much.
Click to expand...
Actually the Smart works surprisingly well. Goes fast enough for most roads, not the motorway though is very safe, is economical when it comes to fuel economy and is comfortable. Intercity parking is much easier, plus in a lot of place you can get exempt from the extra congestion charge. But then those are the places I really do not need a car because there is so much mass transit.

Sophia Antipolis is where I will be and the surrounding towns are mostly old medieval ones with very limited parking. Month before last I stayed in Valbonne and my C4 barely fit in the parking spot. All of which were in public lots. Some nice local decided it was a good thing to key my brand new car. Thankfully the Avis insurance covered it. That is the issue with renting in Europe, all the extras one needs. Extra insurance, fuel charges, rental taxes, etc. Felix did not yet uncover that for his little research project yet. It adds up to a lot of extra money per day. I only rent when I absolutely have to.

I have had all kinds of cars in Europe and all of them are a PITA when in a city. The smaller ones tend to have roofs that are too low for me and I rub my head on them, unlike the Smart which is tall, but squat.
 
ScottM said:
Actually the Smart works surprisingly well. Goes fast enough for most roads, not the motorway though is very safe, is economical when it comes to fuel economy and is comfortable. Intercity parking is much easier, plus in a lot of place you can get exempt from the extra congestion charge. But then those are the places I really do not need a car because there is so much mass transit.
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We agree, then.

It is great for what it is, but for most people, what it is, is not what is useful.

"Fast enough" is a good way of saying, gutlessly underpowered for many circumstances, handling is dicy at best, and while the safety engineering is incredible for its size, you have to append "for its size."

It's fuel economy is amazingly... ummm... mediocre, but at least they make up for it be selling them cheap. Oh wait, no they don't.

If, for some odd reason, I simply had to (1) live in Paris, and (2) own a car, which I (3) had to drive around and park around in the city, a Smart might make a measure of sense. But even then, I'd still choose any one of a half dozen other, better, cars.

Best I can tell (around here), the Smart is built for ... OK, not gonna go there.
 
sba55 said:
Don't know if Henning was kidding or not, but no, you can't rent an Enzo anywhere. They only made 400. However, you CAN rent a 911 Turbo in Germany, which is probably as close as you get to supercar performance for rental cars.

A bit of advice - I would most definitely rent a car for whenever you're not in the major cities. It's cheap, and it will most likely be a lot cheaper than the train. There's a large selection of diesel cars that get >70 mpg. And if you do like the country more than the city, driving the alpine passes in the alps is amazing. For example, the Stelvio pass is incredible, but there's lots to choose from.

-Felix
Click to expand...


Wasn't kidding, dead serious. BTW, tommorrow, I can drive 3 miles and rent an Enzo. Many people that own them put them into management just like airplanes, only the Enzo may show a profit. They are treated as another item in a billion dollar portfolio of personal goodies as assets. Their yacht and jet both charter as well. There's probably 2 Enzos available in So Florida. I saw it advertised in Germany, actually I was in Koln, when I was looking for a fun car to rent and I came across it. It was advertised in all the city markets by Avis. It's like 15k Euro per day. I ended up with an SLK for 350 Euro for 2 weeks. I haven't priced one here but you see a couple about. I remember when this one guys kid takes the Enzo to the track down here and crashed racing it...bad... That was sad to see. I bet So Florida has one of the bigger concentrations of Enzos. I think you had to own 2 other Ferraris before you could order one. I'm not that fond really, I like the front engine models better.
 
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Henning said:
Rottenburg ob de Taube, a small picturesque old walled town is a nice place to see. Are you renting a car or Training it? Trier is an old Roman Empire city. What are your interests? Grass France you can take a perfume making class during which you can blend up your own batch to your liking, that's always fun.
Click to expand...

Tristar said:
Wont have a car, mostly trains/cabs.
Click to expand...

If you don't like Rottenburg ob der Tauber you have no business touring Germany. We spent a night there with our kids in 1992 and I can show you our hotel room windows in travel posters. We had a car, I'm not sure how you'd get there by train (but I'm sure there's a way).

Great suggestions for Paris. You could spend the week there. Likewise for the Munich area. Dachau is a must.
 
One week trip = two bases. Three possibly if one of them is "onthe way to the other one" and you want to stay overnight. Don't underestimate travel time between places. Even a short trip will eat up half your day. I'd stick to two bases if it is your first trip.

You've picked Paris as one base so I'd pick Munich as base two and make day trips from each if you want to leave the city. If this is your first trip to Paris you won't want to leave it with only 2-3 days.

If you do the rest in Munich day trips are a good idea. Dachau, Garmisch, and if you want, Rothenburg ob der Tauber is probably close enough. Neuschwanstein is ~ two hours on train iirc.

If late November = XMAS MARKETS. Don't miss them in either place. It's a good reason to visit in late November.

Where are you staying in each place ?

Train b/w Paris and Munich is roughly 6 hours. It's probably less of a hassle than flying and possibly cheaper. I would probably consider a really early train versus a night train. You can nap. I wouldn't consider "a night on a train" to be my actual sleep for the night. Napping for a few hours after getting an almost-full night of sleep wouldn't be bad though.
 
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Ps stelvio will be closed in november. Probably closes in september. Opens late may- very late may. I attempted drive may 31 and still closed. We took another pass.
 
Ps again. Renting cars aren't that cheap ESP with euro. Next week my "family sized" car was to be ~ 400 bucks for three days. I'm trying to get them to find me a smaller car in their fleet. I don't need a 5 pax auto.

Trains are plentiful and cheap in Europe. Dachau is a short train ride from Munich (you will be appalled at how short). I am sure you could get to Garmisch on public transport, ditto Neuschwanstein.

Those three trips, plus time in Munich, will keep you very occupied in four days. You probably won't have time for Rothenburg BUT it would be a good place to check out a Xmas market if you are there late November.
 
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sba55 said:
You just need to know where and how to look. In Germany (and in Munich), a weekly rental for an economy class vehicle (such as a VW Polo) is usually less than $200. Much less than train tickets.

Just checked and Hertz is $190 for the week 9/10. I'm sure you could get this lower with a little bit of effort.
Click to expand...

By th time you add taxes and cdw that will be more. Definitely get cdw even if you think it is a ripoff. If any damage occurs you can walk away. Old towns can mean narrow streets, etc.
 
Rhein (Rhine) cruise - Bingen to Koblenz. Train or car to Bingen. Shift back to train in Koblenz.

Train system is great in Germany. You can go to the train station in any city and find a train going the direction that you want to go in about an hour.
 
ScottM said:
Spend 1.5days at the Louvre in Paris, break it up into sections of history that you want to see. Gotta see all the Renaissance stuff on one day and then second half day see their Egypt collection from all the stuff plundered by Napoleon from Egypt.

Also see the Museum d'Orsay for all the impressionist stuff. Nortre Dame, Sainte Chapelle (especially the windows!!!). Have dinner in the latin quarter, be sure to have a kir royale as an apertif.

For food, French food is fantastic. Have lunch at a bistro, simple bread and cheese with a glass of the house red is wonderful. Stay away from anything that has the word RIS as part of the name. FYI ric is equal to rice, ris is not stuff you will want to eat. pan chocolate is joyful as a breakfast snack.

Do go tot Arc d'Triumph and go to the top, walk the Champs Elysee and window shop, if you have time a trip out to Versailles is something to do as well. Many, many things to do in Paris.


Munich is a wonderful city too. The airport is fantastic and offers easy train access to downtown. In addition to the castle that you want to see take a trip out to Dachau for a sobering reminder of modern man's cruelty to other human beings. In Munich the Marianplatz is something to beholds and of course you have to go to a beer garden in Munich!!! EAT!

Europe, where you are going is easy to survive on English, but learn a few local words and you will go far. Currency is all Euros and travel is easy on the train as well as intercity flights. Thankfully interEurope travel is not as ridiculous as American interstate flying. Power is all 220VAC 50Hz, check your chargers and see if they already support that voltage and then all you will need is a plug adapter. Europlug is what they use. If you have a GSM phone set it up for roaming but I highly recommend that if you contract is paid off on your phone to get it unlocked and then buy a local SIM card to save money. For example I am in Greece right now and am paying $2.29/minute with $.50/SMS outbound $.05/SMS inbound. France is cheaper at $1.29/minute.

Other than that what questions do you have?
Click to expand...

Scott hit most of it.

I'd add Eiffel Tower (Tour Eiffel) and Sacre Cour to the list for Paris. You said you only have two days - given that, I'd not bother trying to vet to Versailles or Giverny, both of which should go on a future list.

Assuming you fly into CDG (I'll be doing ORY on my next trip), find the train station and get a 3 day transit pass that includes the RER & Metro. The RER runs from CDG into Paris & is better than a bus or taxi.

Dachau is a "must see", but is (truly) haunting. I like Munich - though there are some other cities I like better. Neuschwanstein is a ways out of Munich so either sign up with a tour or make arrangements ahead.

If you're leaving back out of MUC, the S-Bahn (Suburban train) is a good ride back out to the airport.

Check with your bank and make sure your ATM card works over there. Most do, some require a notification to the bank. Take some US currency with you - I've only (nearly) been burned once with an ATM card: that was a day I arrived in France when the telecom workers went on strike and shut down the ATM networks. Fortunately, I was able to get cash at an AmEx office. Now I carry some cash, usually left over from a prior trip. LIkewise, notify your credit card company in advance.

There are still some places that won't take credit cards. Not many, but a few. So carry some cash. Some places will also not be happy about your US credit card - the cards in Europe are generally Chip & PIN (meaning they have an imbedded chip), while the US cards are magnetic stripe. I've run across a few places that didn't know how to handle the mag-stripe cards.... which is why I carry cash, too.

I'd also add to Scott's comment that if you can get an unlocked phone, look at some of the international prepaid SIM cards, such as those Telestial sells. The only trouble with a local SIM (and I DO use local SIMs for data....) is that many of them charge high roaming fees once you go into another country. If you have an iPhone/iPad, shut off data service befor you arrive. Data is super expensive to roam.

Tristar said:
Wont have a car, mostly trains/cabs.
Click to expand...

Assuming you're flying into Paris & leaving from Munich, you will probably not find a rail pass to be cheaper than just buying a one-way ticket. In Europe, for the long-distance trains you need both a ticket and reservations on a particular train.

My favorite auto rental group is AutoEurope - it's US based, very reliable, and often has much better prices than you can find elsewhere... and significantly less than a walk-up rental. They also have a link from their site to raileurope (autoeurope.raileurope.com), which I have also found to be decent for train schedules. I've even been known to make an autoeurope booking via their website when I was in Europe already.
 
Are you planning on making this a museum-heavy trip, or, less about museums and instead a walking-all-over-the-place-and-eating-well trip?

If it's cold you'll want to duck in and out of indoor places anyway...

One bit of advice if you think you are going to hit up at least two museums a day: Museums and Monuments pass. If nothing else it's a line jumper pass which makes it worth triple its price. You walk right in, instead of standing in line. Don't underestimate that value - especially when it's cold or rainy.

Easiest place to find them are the small tourist kiosks - there is one outside Notre Dame, for instance.


You can buy them in 2-4-6 day increments. Two days would be 35 Euros. They have to be consecutive days.

Here is a sampling of what is on the pass:

Arc de Triomphe (climb up for a great view of the whole city)
Musée de l’Armée - Tombeau de Napoléon 1er
Centre Pompidou - Musée national d’art moderne
Conciergerie
Musée de l’Institut du Monde arabe (fascinating, and beautiful museum)
Musée du Louvre (avoid the line with the pass!)
Musée Cluny - Musée national du Moyen Âge
Tours de Notre-Dame (the towers - see the gargoyles up close)
Musée national de l’Orangerie - Claude Monet
Musée d’Orsay - a lot of Impressionist paintings, frequent special exhibits too.
Panthéon - famous dead French people are here
Musée Rodin - beautiful and peaceful gardens.
Sainte-Chapelle - jaw dropping stained glass windows. Try not to miss this.
 
Check with your credit card company on foreign currency transfer charges. Some companies offer free conversions; most have charges for foreign conversions.

Let us know how it goes.

Best,

Dave
 
Where is a good place to get passes like that for the attractions?

I'm still wondering if it will be cheaper to fly in and out of paris and make Germany the last 3 days or so before traveling back to Paris or actually buying two one way plane tickets. I think it's going to be more expensive buying separate tickets.
 
Open jaw. Buy a ticket from NE to Paris, and the return from Munich to NE. Very easy. You do it as one transaction. I do it all the time. Much much cheaper and better than backtracking to Paris, for instance.

Pass: there is a small tourist office kiosk near Notre Dame, which is really convenient.

The nice thing about that pass is that you can go crazy in your two days and hit as many of them as possible. That list I gave you is a small sampling but hits the highlights of places you will want to see on a first trip.

Map it on google maps before you go so you are more or less doing it geographically logically. Open jaw mentioned above is also geographically logical. Avoid backtracking as much as you can.
 
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ps. of the list, I've bolded the ones to try really hard to see on your first visit. They are all worthwhile, but some you should make a higher priority and do the other ones later if you have time.

Arc de Triomphe (climb up for a great view of the whole city)
Musée de l’Armée - Tombeau de Napoléon 1er
Centre Pompidou - Musée national d’art moderne
Conciergerie
Musée de l’Institut du Monde arabe (fascinating, and beautiful museum)
Musée du Louvre (avoid the line with the pass!)
Musée Cluny - Musée national du Moyen Âge
Tours de Notre-Dame (the towers - see the gargoyles up close)
Musée national de l’Orangerie - Claude Monet
Musée d’Orsay - a lot of Impressionist paintings, frequent special exhibits too. THIS MUSEUM ALWAYS HAS HUGE LINES SO THE FACT THAT YOU CAN JUMP THE LINE PAYS FOR THE WHOLE TICKET IMHO
Panthéon - famous dead French people are here
Musée Rodin - beautiful and peaceful gardens.
Sainte-Chapelle - jaw dropping stained glass windows. Try not to miss this.
 
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Oh -

Be sure you let your credit card issuer know that you are taking this trip - sudden unusual activity can often lead to a temporary hold on the card, while they verify validity, at the most inopportune times.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Check with your credit card company on foreign currency transfer charges. Some companies offer free conversions; most have charges for foreign conversions.

Let us know how it goes.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...

Good point, usually it's a transaction fee, so what I do is pull a few days cash at a time and pay everything by cash that I expect.
 
woodstock said:
Those three trips, plus time in Munich, will keep you very occupied in four days. You probably won't have time for Rothenburg BUT it would be a good place to check out a Xmas market if you are there late November.
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You don't need the Xmas market for good Xmas shopping in Rothenburg. There's a great shop that specializes in the season year round. I'm assuming they're still in business, we were there in 1992.
 
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