Interesting RNAV Approaches?

This one (GPS Y at KVGC) is not so hard to fly but...interesting when you break out. Then you will discover why you have to crank in a 15 degree turn at low altitude to get lined up with the runway to land, as there will be a whole hill full of windmills off your left wing, towering above you when you descend below MDA. Why the FAA let these go up less than 3 miles from the end of the runway, I'll never know...The LPV (GPS-Z) brings you down the runway centerline and closer to the mills, but at least you are relying on WAAS accuracy and don't have to crank in the last minute turn over the lake at the end of the runway...
 

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Yeah. They coulda moved NANCC up north a ways to where it would have been about a 248 track to SCCAT, staying far enough away from R2515 and have a 82 degree turn to final instead of 90. But I still don't see the 90 degree turn making that hard to fly.
When this IAP was designed, a maximum course change of 120 degrees was permitted in design. Now, it is 90 degrees. The difference in turn anticipation between 90 and 82 degrees is not much at all.
 
This one (GPS Y at KVGC) is not so hard to fly but...interesting when you break out. Then you will discover why you have to crank in a 15 degree turn at low altitude to get lined up with the runway to land, as there will be a whole hill full of windmills off your left wing, towering above you when you descend below MDA. Why the FAA let these go up less than 3 miles from the end of the runway, I'll never know...The LPV (GPS-Z) brings you down the runway centerline and closer to the mills, but at least you are relying on WAAS accuracy and don't have to crank in the last minute turn over the lake at the end of the runway...
The pilot has to be aware of those final segment offsets. They can be tricky in low visibility.
 
Yeah. They coulda moved NANCC up north a ways to where it would have been about a 248 track to SCCAT, staying far enough away from R2515 and have a 82 degree turn to final instead of 90. But I still don't see the 90 degree turn making that hard to fly.

It certainly doesn't make it easier.
 
While in Fairbanks, AK, they switched the approach to rwy 1L to an RNP .3 while I was up there training our RNP nav system. They have that approach (now rwy 2L) down to RNP .15 now and 20L is RNP .10 now!

We will need a newer EGI (integrated INS/GPS) before we can do that approach...
 
It certainly doesn't make it easier.

But the vast majority of RNAV(GPS) approaches have a 90-degree turn in them unless you're vectored onto final. And I'll take that any day over a procedure turn or HPILPT.
 
Back in the day there were several VOR and NDB approaches with oddities that were interesting to try in a sim just for the challenge. I am wondering are there any interesting RNAV approaches that can make life more interesting in a sim.

I'm sure you can get those in MS flight Sims or at least the early versions of MS Sims. Try UDD which is Bermuda Dunes airport in Palm desert, Palm springs area. I'm sure there are many more but that's where I flew in and out for couple of years.

I got my wings before internet and before GPS. I was a CFII when the unforgiving NDB approaches were part of IFR checkrides, I was teaching something I didn't understand myself very well. Bermuda Dunes (UDD) used to have a Spanish speaking radio station we used for the NDB approach. I believe they still have the RNAV RWY 10.plate but got rid of the NDB stuff. With an ADF on board when flying for real, you could tune in to a radio station and use the good old bearing challenge to find the station which is the base for NDB approaches.

It's refreshing that still some pilots like the challenge of NDB approaches. That sharpens your flying skills. That's for sure.

Happy Landings.
I'm a New member but an old aviator.
 
I'm sure you can get those in MS flight Sims or at least the early versions of MS Sims. Try UDD which is Bermuda Dunes airport in Palm desert, Palm springs area. I'm sure there are many more but that's where I flew in and out for couple of years.

I got my wings before internet and before GPS. I was a CFII when the unforgiving NDB approaches were part of IFR checkrides, I was teaching something I didn't understand myself very well. Bermuda Dunes (UDD) used to have a Spanish speaking radio station we used for the NDB approach. I believe they still have the RNAV RWY 10.plate but got rid of the NDB stuff. With an ADF on board when flying for real, you could tune in to a radio station and use the good old bearing challenge to find the station which is the base for NDB approaches.

It's refreshing that still some pilots like the challenge of NDB approaches. That sharpens your flying skills. That's for sure.

Happy Landings.
I'm a New member but an old aviator.
KUDD RNAV Runway 10 is indeed an interesting one. A pilot has to be a moron to arrive via V137 for this approach in a light piston airplane, especially when there is weather of any kind.
 

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This snippet of the Los Angeles Sectional gives a better view of the topography arriving over MORON along V-137 from the northwest:
MORON.jpg
 
KUDD RNAV Runway 10 is indeed an interesting one. A pilot has to be a moron to arrive via V137 for this approach in a light piston airplane, especially when there is weather of any kind.

I'm assuming you're making a joke about the fix name?

If not... Why? The only thing that looks challenging about this approach to me is the descent gradient, which tops out at 500 feet/nm from CIKUS to FEMAK.

Looking at alternatives, it looks like if you can maintain a constant 419'/nm descent gradient from FETAR all the way into the FAF (JANEN), you'll be above all the fixes in between but arrive at the FAF right on target, and it's 325'/nm in from there.

I'm actually not sure how my plane would do with that. You would likely be at 13,000 MSL to start with, so about 17" MP at WOT. Reducing to 14" (which is as low as I can go without setting off the gear warning) right away at MORON, a bit over a 500 fpm descent would meet the gradient to get to 12,200 at FETAR.

Going down 419'/nm from there would be nearly 1300 fpm to start with, which would probably speed me up a good bit and keep me from getting under gear speed. I'm not sure I could get below gear speed even with speed brakes out at that gradient.

That means that getting down would likely mean dropping the gear right away at MORON. I cruise at about 172 KTAS at 13000, so IAS would be 137 upon reaching MORON and I generally figure that a 500 fpm descent will add about 10 knots. My gear speed is 140 KIAS, so I'd likely plan to drop the gear immediately and keep power at 17" until FETAR, and then reduce as necessary. I might even extend speed brakes and keep power at 17" just to keep the prop from driving the engine the rest of the way in.

Certainly an interesting thought experiment, and something that might be fun to try (just going up to 13,000 locally here and messing with power and drag to see how it works out. It's very different from my normal descent profile, but worth learning before doing an approach like this for real! The RNAV (GPS) Z 19 into KJAC that I shot last summer was a challenge to get down and slow down, and that was only 306'/nm!

After doing this, I'm thinking it makes a lot of sense to calculate a single gradient beforehand and find the altitudes that gradient gives for the approach. It's also worth attempting to fly different gradients with different configurations to see what the plane is capable of. In reality, it'd be even better to find a constant descent rate even though that will curve the descent gradient downward somewhat as you slow down, but that makes the calculation a lot more difficult.

I must have a sickness, because I find this stuff really fun!
 
I'm assuming you're making a joke about the fix name?

If not... Why? The only thing that looks challenging about this approach to me is the descent gradient, which tops out at 500 feet/nm from CIKUS to FEMAK.

Looking at alternatives, it looks like if you can maintain a constant 419'/nm descent gradient from FETAR all the way into the FAF (JANEN), you'll be above all the fixes in between but arrive at the FAF right on target, and it's 325'/nm in from there.
Center probably won't let you below 15,000 southeast bound on V-137. You're flying almost directly over the highest terrain in southern California with Banning Pass just off to your right. The downdrafts could overwhelm a normally aspirated light airplane. The ride can be terrible when IMC or even CAVU when the winds are blowing, which they often do through that pass. A few years ago I spoke with a Kingair pilot who goes into KUDD on a regular basis. In crummy weather the winds often favor Runway 10. He routes over YUCCA to avoid the MORON terminal route.
 
Then you will discover why you have to crank in a 15 degree turn at low altitude to get lined up with the runway to land, as there will be a whole hill full of windmills off your left wing...
So this approach has you tilting at windmills?
 
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