Interesting perspective on Flight Instructing

Tristar said:
Well kenny I would hope they mix it on a sandwich and not on your ticket. But you're really missing the point. Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches are a national past time and a great idea for getting away with something sweet and sticky for lunch! I just took it a step further by making a lesson out of it. Although Joe took it to a whole new level!
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I was just kidding around by adding to my prior line. I've never liked peanut butter and jelly mixed.

I knew what you were getting at. I threw another example at you in chat but no PBJ involved.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I hope that one day we will live in a world where we all will be able to enjoy peanut butter and jelly sandwiches without quibbling over whether it is high fat, low fat, no fat, creamy, chunky, mixed, or freeze-dried.
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So what you're saying is that we're peanut butter racial? Although I'll eat about any of it, not so sure on the freeze dried.

I've read the FOI book already. You wont get a psychology degree after reading it but it is nice to help you understand how people work.
 
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Tristar said:
So what you're saying is that we're peanut butter racial? Although I'll eat about any of it, not so sure on the freeze dried.
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Ideally, I should have said absolutely nothing that could be positively identified as a definitive statement. :)

I've read the FOI book already. You wont get a psychology degree after reading it but it is nice to help you understand how people work.
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Yeah. A lot of it is review from when I almost got a psych minor (one class short... grr...), but the stuff on teaching is new. I'm enjoying it... when I can force myself to read it instead of talk on FlashChat.
 
Both are very funny!

Areeda said:
Ah now you can see the value in the FOI. First we need a Lesson Plan

Code: 
[B]Section 1 Preventing Starvation Lesson 3[/B] - Advanced sandwiches the PB&J
(don't forget the TLAs that will be on the written test)
 
[B]Objective[/B]:  To introduce the student pilot to the haute cuisine of aviation 
professionals, expanding on the previous lessons in vending machine operations 
and boiling water for Ramen.
 
[B]Elements[/B]:  Pre sandwich discussion.
 - Shopping at the 7/11
 - Benefits of chunky vs smooth and preserves vs. jellies
 - Kitchen preflight:  finding the tools and ingredients
 - Demo Sandwich:
 - Student Sandwich
 - Post-sandwich critique
 
[B]Schedule[/B]:  
  - Pre sandwich discussion:  :10
  - Instructor demo: :10
  - Instructor eating: :5
  - Student practice sandwich: :15
  - Instructor eating:  :05
  - Student sandwich:  :10
  - Sudent eating:  :05
Total estimated time for lesson 1:00
 
[B]Equipment:[/B]
[B]- [/B]Wonder bread or Orowheat 7 grain
 - Whole foods in store ground crunchy (if student pays)  or 7/11 Jiffy 
 - Strawberry preserve
 - Butter knife or wooden PB spreader
 - Milk (2%)
 - napkins
 
[B]Instructor Actions:[/B]
 - Demo procedure
 - Eat sandwich and drink milk
 - Talk student through 1st sandwich
 - Eat sandwich, drink milk if satisfactorily completed (otherwise this one is the
   students.
 - Observe second student sandwich
 - Critique students technique and progress paying special attention to 
   consistency of depth of PB and full coverage of bread for both PB and J
 
[B]Students Actions:[/B]
[B]- [/B]Observe procedure
 - Ask questions if anything is not completely understood
 - Make practice sandwich at safe altitude, don't forget to clear the area of 
   hungry CFIs not assigned to you
 - Make your sandwich
 - Eat your sandwich
 - participate in critique,  remember if the CFI asks you to repeat the procedure 
   she is not trying to find faults with you, she is only trying to get a complete meal.
 
[B]Completion Standards:[/B]
 - At the end of this lesson the student should be able to complete a PB&J 
  without instructor assistance
 - The student should be able to tell the difference between a well made PB&J 
   and a Reese's peanut butter cup
 - The student will understand how inappropriate and potentially bustable the 
    concept of PB&J on toast of any kind
 - The student will understand how much instructors appreciate food
   during the day.
Hmm maybe I'll go make some coffee. It's early.

Joe
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For the better quality of training don't forget to buy your instructor a lunch!

P.S. No analogy intended :cornut:
 
sdflyer said:
For the better quality of training don't forget to buy your instructor a lunch!
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Yeah, I always bought my instructor lunch when we were out and happened to be someplace at mealtimes, and found it to be a worthwhile thing to do. Then again, I had/have a good instructor. Your mileage may vary. :)
 
Everskyward said:
I can make it even simpler. All you need to do is thaw. :D

pbj.JPG
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Thou art surely a blasphemer!!!!

I love the PB&J analogy though. Simply brilliant....I never thought of that before...

--Matt
 
Tristar said:
Jesse has a great point. Many students have taken advantage of flight simulators and although you can't pass a checkride using only MSFS, its a good idea to learn how to read instruments. Students who practice/play on flight sims are ahead of the game...literally.
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Some.

Some students may be ahead of the game.

But some just manage to teach them selves some very wrong things - at least based on what I see posted on usenet...:loco:
 
The rogue said:
Thou art surely a blasphemer!!!!
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:devil:

The rogue said:
I love the PB&J analogy though. Simply brilliant....I never thought of that before...
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Neither had I. I remember trying to reassure students by telling them that learning to fly was like driving a car with a stick shift and a clutch; at first you need to think about every move you make, then it becomes second nature. Then I found out that some people had never driven a stick. :confused:
 
Tristar said:
Ok, so this is what I thought of at 3 in the morning.

As a CFI it's hard to completely grasp what it's like to be a new student. For many of us, it's been so long since we first learned what an aileron was much less its purpose. So I came up with an idea to put this into perspective for new and potential CFIs.

Making Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwiches.

Now I know most of you are thinking, "that's silly, what could be easier?" But lets take a look at this by listening in on a potential CFI with a "student/actor."

What do I do first?

Step 1. You could start out by saying, "first you take out some bread." Ok, so the student takes out a handful of bread. "no, no, only two pieces." So now he has two pieces of bread on his plate. Good so far.

Step 2. Peanut butter: "Now, take off the cap for the peanut butter and scoop some out." Okay but how do I do that? "grab the top, twist it and scoop some out" So the student grabs the top and starts turning but it only gets tighter. "no, the other way" Oh ok. So now the top is off. "now scoop some out." So the student sticks his hand in, grabs a handful of peanut butter and pulls it out. "no, you've gotta use the knife." What's a knife? "here is your knife" So the student grabs the sharp end. "no, hold it with the blunt end, you may hurt yourself!" "ok now stick it into the jar" It won't go in. "no, no it wont go in sideways, you've gotta stick the sharp end in." Oh, I knew that (This is harder than it looks!) "Now stick it in the jar, swirl it around, pick it up, and spread it on the bread."

Step 3.Jelly: By now the CFI will start to understand what he's up against and should be able to flow pretty smoothly. "We are going to do a maneuver similar to our last one but with jelly this time. I want you to pick up the jar, turn the top counterclockwise with your other hand. Pick up the knife with the blunt end and stick the sharp end into the jar, swirl it around. Then scoop it out and spread it onto the bread one piece at a time. Lastly, put the two pieces together" Tada!

Most of us would have said, "well you need some bread, and you put a scoop of peanut butter and jelly in between the slices." Something so simple as a sandwich can seem so complex to someone that has never done it before. It may be a funny and slightly exaggerated example but the very same idea applies to airplanes. Those of us which flying has become second nature must remember that when we're teaching.

None of my students will ever go hungry.... :rofl:
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IMHO, one of the most daunting tasks facing an instructor...especially one who has been at it for several years...is remembering how a student thinks. Good presentation!

Bob Gardner
 
The flight school that I attended would have used pretty much the same lesson plan with a few minor variations. Step one would be preceded with a written quiz, then followed up with a post lesson quiz. Total time two hours. Cost to student, $40.00 per hour for a total of two hours = $80.00. Flight instructor receives a total of $30.00 for the two hours.

Lesson two. Original flight instructor found a better job mowing lawns, so I need a new instructor for lesson number two. The new instructor must see for himself that I have mastered lesson number one, so that is repeated. Lesson number two will have to be done next week. Cost $80.00, flight instructor gets $30.00 of that.

Lesson two is preceded by a written quiz and followed up with another. Time two hours. $80.00, flight instructor gets $30.00.

Lesson three: Second flight instructor finds a better job sorting washers in a factory, I get a new instructor for lesson three. The new instructor must see for himself that I have mastered lessons one and two. This takes several more weeks and $160.00 more dollars. Three weeks later I can begin lesson three, however, the third flight instructor finds a better job pumping gas down at the ARCO station. Before I can start lesson three, my forth instructor must see for himself that I have mastered lessons one and two. Lesson three will be tentatively started in three weeks , assuming my new flight instructor remains with the school all that long.

This continues on and on like this for several years before I decide to buy my own equipment and hire a flight instructor privately in order to save money. By now I have made it all the way to lesson five at a cost, including equipment rental that is more than four times what I was quoted originally for the entire course.

I feel that if I stick with it, someday, I too, will be able to make a P&J sandwich.

John
 
I have laughed my way through this entire thread! It reminds me of when my racers in New Zealand used to laugh at me for eating PB+J's... Until I MADE them eat some... They all became addicted immediately!


But Tris- I have one question.... Where is the step about cutting off the crusts? lol

(My personal fave- Orowheat Whole Wheat Bread, JIF Extra Crunchy, Smuckers Strawberry Jam) but when I was younger, Apple Jelly or Apple Butter was in vogue
 
colomtnflyer said:
I have laughed my way through this entire thread! It reminds me of when my racers in New Zealand used to laugh at me for eating PB+J's... Until I MADE them eat some... They all became addicted immediately!


But Tris- I have one question.... Where is the step about cutting off the crusts? lol

(My personal fave- Orowheat Whole Wheat Bread, JIF Extra Crunchy, Smuckers Strawberry Jam) but when I was younger, Apple Jelly or Apple Butter was in vogue
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Ric I'm tempted to act like your mother, "crusts are good for you!" Either that or I'm just too eager to eat the sandwich than peal the crusts off.

My favorite is honey wheat bread(or white, I'm not too picky) with crunchy peanut butter and strawberry preserves! mmmm! My grandma actually makes homemade plum jelly. We had many jars of that in the house as a kid. Very good and really sweet, just how every kid (even big kids) like it!
 
So, should I really be trying this hard not to print out the PB&J PTS standards and lesson plan?? I laugh every time I read it.
 
Mmmm. Good thread, Tris. Good sandwich, too. Bread Barn seven grain, Skippy Super Chunk, and Trader Joe's cherry preserves. :yes:
 
Areeda said:
Ah now you can see the value in the FOI. First we need a Lesson Plan

Code: 
[B]Section 1 Preventing Starvation Lesson 3[/B] - Advanced sandwiches the PB&J
(don't forget the TLAs that will be on the written test)

[B]Objective[/B]:  To introduce the student pilot to the haute cuisine of aviation 
professionals, expanding on the previous lessons in vending machine operations 
and boiling water for Ramen.

[B]Elements[/B]:  Pre sandwich discussion.
 - Shopping at the 7/11
 - Benefits of chunky vs smooth and preserves vs. jellies
 - Kitchen preflight:  finding the tools and ingredients
 - Demo Sandwich:
 - Student Sandwich
 - Post-sandwich critique

[B]Schedule[/B]:  
  - Pre sandwich discussion:  :10
  - Instructor demo: :10
  - Instructor eating: :5
  - Student practice sandwich: :15
  - Instructor eating:  :05
  - Student sandwich:  :10
  - Sudent eating:  :05
Total estimated time for lesson 1:00

[B]Equipment:
 - [/B]Wonder bread or Orowheat 7 grain
 - Whole foods in store ground crunchy (if student pays)  or 7/11 Jiffy 
 - Strawberry preserve
 - Butter knife or wooden PB spreader
 - Milk (2%)
 - napkins

[B]Instructor Actions:
[/B] - Demo procedure
 - Eat sandwich and drink milk
 - Talk student through 1st sandwich
 - Eat sandwich, drink milk if satisfactorily completed (otherwise this one is the
   students.
 - Observe second student sandwich
 - Critique students technique and progress paying special attention to 
   consistency of depth of PB and full coverage of bread for both PB and J

[B]Students Actions:
 - [/B]Observe procedure
 - Ask questions if anything is not completely understood
 - Make practice sandwich at safe altitude, don't forget to clear the area of 
   hungry CFIs not assigned to you
 - Make your sandwich
 - Eat your sandwich
 - participate in critique,  remember if the CFI asks you to repeat the procedure 
   she is not trying to find faults with you, she is only trying to get a complete meal.

[B]Completion Standards:
[/B] - At the end of this lesson the student should be able to complete a PB&J 
  without instructor assistance
 - The student should be able to tell the difference between a well made PB&J 
   and a Reese's peanut butter cup
 - The student will understand how inappropriate and potentially bustable the 
    concept of PB&J on toast of any kind
 - The student will understand how much instructors appreciate food
   during the day.
Hmm maybe I'll go make some coffee. It's early.

Joe
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I don't know what's more pitiful, Joe:

a) that you took the time to write that all out; or
b) that I actually added up the time in the schedule elements to see if they added up the 1:00 you said they did. :)

Tristan: GREAT post.
 
Areeda said:
...Living in LA when times were better I was thinking of opening a PB & J bar with nut butters from all over the world and the finest preserves and jellies made by grandmothers in the heartland. I was hoping I could charge a good $40 for a pistachio butter on organic 7-grain bread with cloudberry preserve and a glass of 2% goat milk with a shot of Sumatra espresso on the side.

Where are the Venture Capitalists when I need them?

Joe

OK now I have to admit I'm more than a bit weird.
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:D

Do do know that some Chicago traders started a cold breakfast cereal cafe chain, right?

And there's a restaurant group called PB&J, Inc. but as I remember they serve burgers and beer.
 
Good post Tristan.

I still remember how during CFI training, my instructor had me walk him through the steps of making an approach and landing. I thought, oh this is going to be easy. He warned me he would do exactly what I told him, and the results weren't pretty. I realized how I still had some work left to do in learning to explain things better.
 
I have decided to eat as many PB & J sandwiches as I can this week. They are one of the best tasting food groups in my opinion.
 
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