Interesting icing encounter

This was from a few years ago before that problem was as well known. From posts on other boards, it seems the pilot was flying in icing conditions with the auto pilot on. When enough ice accumulated and it let go, there was quite a ride.
What do you think about the pilot continuing on after the self described 90 degree banks and what sounds like a stall?

Best,

Dave
 
Gotta give her credit for recovering...not so sure about carrying on to the original destination afterwards, though. I think I'd want to find the nearest runway so I could change my pants...
 
I'm gonna go with trapper on this one. at least she got it under control! she sure sounded rattled, not the kinda condition one needs when flying another 2.5 hours into icing conditions.
 
ntbjounin said:
I'm gonna go with trapper on this one. at least she got it under control! she sure sounded rattled, not the kinda condition one needs when flying another 2.5 hours into icing conditions.
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I was kinda surprised at how quickly her voice returned to "normal" after what sounded like a panic attack. Chances are there was some euphoria from the major adrenaline rush she must have experienced once things were working again and that could easily have clouded her judgment. Remember the admonition to avoid making big decisions immediately after a traumatic event? That probably would apply here I think.

She never mentioned pitot heat beyond the cryptic "I turned on boots and I turned on heat" but it sure sounds like she was cruising along on autopilot with the pitot heat off and built up enough ice to stall and dove in a vain attempt to get the ASI to read something above 80 Kt when it was plugged up with ice. Hopefully she's learned that paying more attention to ice and hand flying when ice is building is a good way to live longer.
 
I think the decision to continue would be a complex one. Having a bit more flight time, if it was through easier conditions, might provide time to recover some vs. being very shaken after something like that happening. There could be reason to believe that the icing is isolated. My guess, though, is that the weather checks these people performed were not in-depth enough to give a clear picture of where to expect ice vs. not. If the assumption is the ice will continue and there's an airport you know you can get into relatively nearby, that seems like the option to me. But I would want to know I could get in, preferably on an ILS, not have to do a low non-precision approach that I'd have to go missed on. As with everything, it depends.

The other night flying home from Rhode Island in the Aztec, some ice started accumulating aft of the boots in the clouds, which I was not happy about. Fortunately the freezing level was about 7000 ft (we were at 8000) and it was time to descend anyway, so we got out of it quickly. We also could have climbed, as we were pretty close to the cloud tops. Keeping your head about you is always important - doubly so when you have untested changes in airfoil design with unknown consequences. I agree that when you get into ice it's best to turn off the autopilot so you can keep aware of how the controls feel.

The Caravan is probably especially susceptible to these sorts of icing. 8750 lbs takeoff weight with 675 SHP is a bit on the low side (figure for comparison the Aztec has 500 hp and the 310 has 600 hp for less than 2/3 the weight). You add to it the fact that its biggest use is as a freight dog for FedEx/UPS/etc. at lower altitudes and, well, I'd be surprised if it didn't have more icing encounters than many other planes out there.

Edit: I also wonder how many people get to Caravans without having much experience in other aircraft first, since insurance seems more willing to insure lower time pilots in turbine singles than twins. Reading through the NTSB reports, it seems a lot of it had to do with lack of experience.
 
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gismo said:
She never mentioned pitot heat beyond the cryptic "I turned on boots and I turned on heat" but it sure sounds like she was cruising along on autopilot with the pitot heat off and built up enough ice to stall and dove in a vain attempt to get the ASI to read something above 80 Kt when it was plugged up with ice. Hopefully she's learned that paying more attention to ice and hand flying when ice is building is a good way to live longer.
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Goes back to why it's important to keep your wits about you and keeping an eye on everything. I had the pitot heat fail on me in the Aztec in ice (worked in preflight, failed in the sky). I watched the airspeed start going down, saw the GS staying the same on the GPS. Controls felt the same. By the time it got down very low with no change in control feel or GS, it was pretty obvious what happened.
 
Ice stall, then also pitot ice. As you descend, indicated airspeed diminishes. So you pitch forward evermore. 160 knots over ground, 80 indicated in the dive.

Sounds like she needs dry underwear.
 
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I don't think I would have continued on to my destination without a stop somewhere en route even if it was just long enough to clear my head.

It's odd that some feel the need to scream may-day repeatedly even after the may-day has been acknowledged but this pilot isn't the first and definitely not the last.
 
I got from listening to the first part that perhaps she and ATC couldn't hear each other that well, as someone was relaying parts of the calls ... so, on her end, it sounded like she didn't hear ATC for some time?
 
Seems like you would notice the ice building up or after that whole ordeal and you saw the OAT was O c you would request a descent immediately to a lower altitude.
 
mhockey21 said:
Seems like you would notice the ice building up or after that whole ordeal and you saw the OAT was O c you would request a descent immediately to a lower altitude.
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Not exactly.

You won't always get ice in a cloud that has potential icing conditions. Furthermore, whether to request a descent, climb, or other action is highly variable dependent on the specifics of where you are. I can tell you a lot of times it's best to stay the course depending on the specifics of the weather you're flying through. Frequently a lower altitude is a bad idea, especially since the worst ice is in the tops typically.

Additionally, flying along at night, you may or may not notice the ice buildup. You should have an ice light on your plane, but do you know what happens when you turn the high beams on in fog on your car? The same thing happens in a cloud if it's a thick one at night. So you turn your ice light on, and it really doesn't always give you a good view of the ice building. Of course, if it's bad enough you should definitely see it, but that's assuming you're looking. Yes, you should be, but especially in a high workload situation, you may not. Additionally, depending on the system design, one may choose to just leave the de-ice equipment on (some boots will automatically cycle) and may be complacent and not look at everything else.

Lots of weather factors and human factors involved.
 
Rebecca Lynn Shaw syndrome, except this pilot managed to transfer the experience into the experience bag and will never allow that again.

Ms. Shaw was not for fortuante :(
 
A little less panic - and a little more analyzing the situation will always help. But that's way easier to say then do. Better to have done this analyzing way before there is a need to panic avoiding this all together.

A lesson learned for her I'm sure. It's a bad deal to have the auto pilot kick off, airplane stalling, with a frozen pitot tube. The more you dive the more the airspeed decreases. Good thing she turned pitot heat and the anti-ice on before she hit the ground.
 
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bbchien said:
except this pilot managed to transfer the experience into the experience bag and will never allow that again.
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I think every honest pilot will admit that they have at least one lesson learned that could have had other results if it wasn't for having a bit of luck on their side.

As for those pilots that claim they have never made a mistake, I don't want to ever fly with their egos.
 
flav8r said:
I think every honest pilot will admit that they have at least one lesson learned that could have had other results if it wasn't for having a bit of luck on their side.
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If it's only one, then the pilot probably hasn't been flying long, or hasn't been paying attention.

As for those pilots that claim they have never made a mistake, I don't want to ever fly with their egos.
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+1
 
BTDT. Once. Truly an underwear-changing experience. I flew (barely) to the closest ILS at MKC and remember telling ATC that there would be no miss and that I would be landing out of the approach, I was just hoping it would be on the airport. And that landing on the runway would be even better, if I happened to be so fortunate.

Hello FIKI T-210.

Ted DuPuis said:
But I would want to know I could get in, preferably on an ILS, not have to do a low non-precision approach that I'd have to go missed on. As with everything, it depends.
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jesse said:
Or they don't have the t-shirt...
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There can only be one...

wabower said:
BTDT. Once. Truly an underwear-changing experience. I flew (barely) to the closest ILS at MKC and remember telling ATC that there would be no miss and that I would be landing out of the approach, I was just hoping it would be on the airport. And that landing on the runway would be even better, if I happened to be so fortunate.

Hello FIKI T-210.
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Do you think you would have been better off going someplace with a non-precision approach? Certainly one of those "It depends..." things.
 
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