inter-plane communcation

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

May the force be with you
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Flying home yesterday, we did our due diligence.
Looked up the weather, called FSS, etc

VFR departing and VFR arriving. Small IFR patch in the middle.

We left 15 min apart Dad in front and me trailing.
He has all the gadgets so 3/4 way home, He sees ceilings at our destination are dropping and becoming overcast. He descends from 7500 to 2500 to remain clear.

I have no way of knowing this so his pax sends me and both of my pax a txt saying descend< 3000, ceilings, ovc

I do, we lived, it was a great flight.


We landed and we had a discussion about how he could have communicated this to me while we were both on the same ctr freq.
Is that allowed?

My plane had 1 narco radio and as God is my witness, it picked up the spanish radio station for about 10 minutes while we were inbound. That was the strangest thing.

Back to the point. How besides text, could he relay that information to me?
When he sent the text, I was in severe clear so I would have kept going. I would have gotten over the layer, back tracked, and got under it otherwise.

Is there anyway for him to tell center "Hey Junior is 10 min behind and I want to let him know about the changing conditions?"

Thanks in advance.
 
Ask the controller if you can speak to the aircraft,on their freq for a minute. Or ask the controller to relay the message.
 
Do you both a a comm 2 which you can keep on the air to air BS channel?
 
I don't think your scenario would play out often in the real world for most people's flights, but why not use a high end normal handheld thingy if you plan to fly like this? Surely you have audio in capability in your headset? or if you are both on with center, maybe have a method of how the leader will make something known, like "blah blah center. Cessna 123BA, decending to 3000 due to overcast ceilings at 3500." and make sure you are listening. ?? I feel like you are not doing as much planning as you should be based on some of your threads.
 
Never flown xc with 2 planes before.
My bird only had 1 comm. Very basic.
 
Some Comm's have a monitor button where you can listen to both the primary and secondary freq at the same time. Its a bit more of a hastle than a second comm, but if it works with what you have. its the M button on the one i fly
 
Did this just recently where I was flying back from Montana to the bay area and heard our company plane on the frequency. I asked the controller to send along a "hello" from "company traffic" :) and the other guy let the controller know that they were monitoring air-to-air which I correctly guessed as 123.45 (I know, I know the companies flying test flights don't like this). If I had one radio I could have requested to go off frequency. But I had two so just monitored ATC while I said a quick hello on 123.45 and was on my way.
 
JasonM said:
I feel like you are not doing as much planning as you should be based on some of your threads.
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I didn't really do any more or less planning than normal. same routine I always do. We were essentially treating this as two completely separate flights just after we landed dad said I wish there was a convenient way for me to communicate to you about the ceiling.

and as you said, this isn't something that will come up often this is the first time we have ever done this. We will probably do something like this once every year or two.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I didn't really do any more or less planning than normal. same routine I always do. We were essentially treating this as two completely separate flights just after we landed dad said I wish there was a convenient way for me to communicate to you about the ceiling.

and as you said, this isn't something that will come up often this is the first time we have ever done this. We will probably do something like this once every year or two.
Click to expand...


I know that comment came across rude the second I posted it and that wasn't my goal. Rather being direct about what you have been creating threads about. ie. having an ipad not showing the airplane icon and not being able to get home, then here departing knowing it is IFR mid route while only being VFR rated. Maybe I read into it wrong. :dunno:
 
JasonM said:
I know that comment came across rude the second I posted it and that wasn't my goal. Rather being direct about what you have been creating threads about. ie. having an ipad not showing the airplane icon and not being able to get home, then here departing knowing it is IFR mid route while only being VFR rated. Maybe I read into it wrong. :dunno:
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Haha. My sarcasm is biting be in the butt
The ipad issue was just a tech question. Not being able to get home w/o it was complete sarcasm.

I actually flew home using VORs yesterday (admittedly for the 1st time in about 8 months). I had foreflight but I felt it was going to do more harm than good given that I didn't have a proper mount for it and it was losing GPS so easily.

As far as flying over an ovc layer?
maybe not a good idea but it is in my bag of questionable habits I guess.
I took off with 4 hours of fuel on 1.5 hour flight so to some extent gambling that I can find a hole within 2.5 hours of my destination.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Hmmm. Pirep...
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

PIREPs are supposed to go to FSS or Flight Watch, but I've definitely heard them on Center and Approach. They do care so they don't vector VFR traffic into clouds and so on.

I presume you and your dad know each others' tail numbers.
 
Have your dad monitor air-to-air 122.75. Then you could ask center to switch freqs for a moment. "Nxxx freq change approved, report back up" they might say. Checking off freq temporarily is ndb... people do it all the time.

Then you call your dad on 122.75 and chat.

Thing is tho.. you're PIC. So why not just call FSS instead of your dad?
 
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6Pc Sr: so-and-so center, 6pc Sr with request
CTR: 6pc Sr say request
6Pc Sr: request descent to 2500 due to forecasted OVC layer
CTR: descend n maintain 2500
6Pc Jr: ooh oohh me too!!
 
eman1200 said:
6Pc Sr: so-and-so center, 6pc Sr with request
CTR: 6pc Sr say request
6Pc Sr: request descent to 2500 due to forecasted OVC layer
CTR: descend n maintain 2500
6Pc Jr: ooh oohh me too!!
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Umm, you don't need to request altitude changes VFR unless you've been restricted or the new altitude is in Class B. You'll get a "WTF" in Class E.
 
MAKG1 said:
Umm, you don't need to request altitude changes VFR unless you've been restricted or the new altitude is in Class B. You'll get a "WTF" in Class E.
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That brings up another point. I always let them know I am going to descend or ascend. even if I'm out in the middle of nowhere am i bothering them with that?

They have never sounded annoyed but when I have said it they have just said maintain VFR altitude is your discretion.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That brings up another point. I always let them know I am going to descend or ascend. even if I'm out in the middle of nowhere am i bothering them with that?

They have never sounded annoyed but when I have said it they have just said maintain VFR altitude is your discretion.
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It's a nice thing to do in Class E. In B/C/D or in high traffic areas, you "can" climb or descend at will unless you're restricted, but it's real nice to let them known.

If they respond with "altitude your discretion," they are reminding you that you don't have to tell them. In that case, they don't care.

You never have to request a change unless you're restricted or you want to enter Class B and you aren't cleared yet.

They will ask if they want to know. Possibly quickly if they really were expecting it. Yesterday, I had a NorCal controller ask me my intentions because I was doing air work near a sector boundary. So, we made a turn to stay in his sector.

The one time I've had controllers get ****y when I didn't announce a change in Class E was when I resumed a climb underneath the extended centerline for Oakland. I guess Wonder Woman was flying her invisible jet through there less than 1000 feet above me.
 
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you can "relay" the message through center, knowing that your compatriot will be listening to the initial transmission

the last one I did was "Center, when you say goodbye to baron 4PF would you give them a message, that they left their lunch behind and it was very tasty"
 
JHW said:
you can "relay" the message through center, knowing that your compatriot will be listening to the initial transmission

the last one I did was "Center, when you say goodbye to baron 4PF would you give them a message, that they left their lunch behind and it was very tasty"
Click to expand...

Now That's funny
 
MAKG1 said:
Umm, you don't need to request altitude changes VFR unless you've been restricted or the new altitude is in Class B. You'll get a "WTF" in Class E.
Click to expand...


umm, if you're on flight following and you want to relay a message other than a txt msg to someone in another plane following you that you're descending to a certain altitude, this is my suggestion.

I've been on ff several times where I requested a diff altitude and never got even close to a 'wtf'. either got 'approved' or 'at my discretion'.
 
eman1200 said:
I've been on ff several times where I requested a diff altitude and never got even close to a 'wtf'. either got 'approved' or 'at my discretion'.
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The "at your discretion" is ATC-speak for "WTF." They are reminding you that you don't need to request it.

You can TELL them you're descending due to clouds. They may or may not care that you're descending, but they probably will care about the clouds.
 
MAKG1 said:
The "at your discretion" is ATC-speak for "WTF." They are reminding you that you don't need to request it.
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I understand mak. my point here is, atc's response is irrelevant. they can tell me (or 6PC SR) to go screw if they want. but SR will have 'gotten the message' to JR, assuming they were both on the same freq. das all I's sayin'.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That brings up another point. I always let them know I am going to descend or ascend. even if I'm out in the middle of nowhere am i bothering them with that?

They have never sounded annoyed but when I have said it they have just said maintain VFR altitude is your discretion.
Click to expand...

I do this as well and they say the same to me. I've never sensed that it annoys them but they always say "maintain VFR" to make sure it is clear that my eyeballs are primary for traffic separation.
 
I try to advise ATC of my altitude changes VFR when on FF because it is a nice thing to do. Besides, it is a good habit to build for when communicating is more critical. As long as I am brief, they usually thank me, especially when I phrase it as advice instead of as a request.
 
Every time I've used flight following, which is a lot, ATC has always specifically requested I notify of them of any planned changes in altitude. So I would never make a routine non emergency change in altitude without saying something.
 
Sam D said:
Did this just recently where I was flying back from Montana to the bay area and heard our company plane on the frequency. I asked the controller to send along a "hello" from "company traffic" :) and the other guy let the controller know that they were monitoring air-to-air which I correctly guessed as 123.45 (I know, I know the companies flying test flights don't like this). If I had one radio I could have requested to go off frequency. But I had two so just monitored ATC while I said a quick hello on 123.45 and was on my way.
Click to expand...

Is there a problem with using the approved air-to-air frequency?

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
Is there a problem with using the approved air-to-air frequency?

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

:D I guess not except that when he said he was monitoring air-to-air we both ended up on 123.45. To "fix" this issue, it might be better to make 123.45 the correct air to air frequency and switch the test pilots to the other one! :D
 
JasonM said:
I know that comment came across rude the second I posted it and that wasn't my goal. Rather being direct about what you have been creating threads about. ie. having an ipad not showing the airplane icon and not being able to get home, then here departing knowing it is IFR mid route while only being VFR rated. Maybe I read into it wrong. :dunno:
Click to expand...

Wow, judgmental much?

When I was flying for my business, I flew all over the east 1/2 of the U.S. as a VFR pilot when it was VFR at both ends and IFR betwixt. If I hadn't done this, then I'd have taken maybe a third of the trips I did and taken a lot more 8 to 10 hour drives to/from work.

I always made sure I had an out and talked to FSS as necessary. Was it a bit more risky than having VFR across the entire route? Sure, but it was a managed risk just like many others in life.
 
New GPS and COMMS will probably have live texts etc.. We need a new age comm already
 
timwinters said:
Wow, judgmental much?

When I was flying for my business, I flew all over the east 1/2 of the U.S. as a VFR pilot when it was VFR at both ends and IFR betwixt. If I hadn't done this, then I'd have taken maybe a third of the trips I did and taken a lot more 8 to 10 hour drives to/from work.

I always made sure I had an out and talked to FSS as necessary. Was it a bit more risky than having VFR across the entire route? Sure, but it was a managed risk just like many others in life.
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Maybe he missed the sarcasm. I over do it at times.
I made a remark last week about how i was having an iPad issue and stated:
"I have no idea how I am going to get home now" trying to be clever.

If I had read that and didn't realize the poster typing it was just being a jackass, I might be concerned as well.
 
I'm not sure why most pilots feel they have to use flight follow? When I'm with other planes I would rather have ship to ship. I guess traveling to Osh has gotten me use to it. (You have no choice they wont give you flight follow in bound to Osh).
When by myself I always use FF just to keep from falling a sleep, but with other planes we don't.
 
tecprotb said:
I'm not sure why most pilots feel they have to use flight follow? When I'm with other planes I would rather have ship to ship. I guess traveling to Osh has gotten me use to it. (You have no choice they wont give you flight follow in bound to Osh).
When by myself I always use FF just to keep from falling a sleep, but with other planes we don't.
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Because it's another set of eyes. One with radar that can see a whole lot better than you can.

Ever try to see a faster plane on your six in a Warrior?
 
MAKG1 said:
Because it's another set of eyes. One with radar that can see a whole lot better than you can.

Ever try to see a faster plane on your six in a Warrior?
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Exactly. And you know what makes you value that extra set of eyes with radar more? The first time you look to you're right and the window is filled with airplane that isn't yours. Given that I am here replying, clearly we didn't collide. But if I was 50ft to the right, it would have been a bad day over Meriden, CT. Me and whoever was in that plane that climbed right over my starboard bow like I was standing still would be statistics.

Seeing and avoiding is great except for when you don't. Flight following and soon to be ADS-B traffic are pretty special to me after that day.
 
Sam D said:
:D I guess not except that when he said he was monitoring air-to-air we both ended up on 123.45. To "fix" this issue, it might be better to make 123.45 the correct air to air frequency and switch the test pilots to the other one! :D
Click to expand...

Try to sell that to the FCC. They have no sense of humor whatsoever.

Bob
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That brings up another point. I always let them know I am going to descend or ascend. even if I'm out in the middle of nowhere am i bothering them with that?
Click to expand...
This question is answered in AIM 4-1-15 b. 2. I'd recommend reading 4-1-15 in its entirety but here is the relevant portion.

4-1-15. Radar Traffic Information Service
b. Provisions of the Service
2. When receiving VFR radar advisory service, pilots should monitor the assigned frequency at all times. This is to preclude controllers' concern for radio failure or emergency assistance to aircraft under the controller's jurisdiction. VFR radar advisory service does not include vectors away from conflicting traffic unless requested by the pilot. When advisory service is no longer desired, advise the controller before changing frequencies and then change your transponder code to 1200, if applicable. Pilots should also inform the controller when changing VFR cruising altitude. Except in programs where radar service is automatically terminated, the controller will advise the aircraft when radar is terminated.​

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0401.html#aim0401.html.8
 
bobmrg said:
Try to sell that to the FCC. They have no sense of humor whatsoever.

Bob
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Hmmm..

I am betting the major aircraft builders have NOT used 123.45 in years... It is ACARS all the time..

Next reason to not use that freq??:confused:
 
My plane had 1 narco radio and as God is my witness, it picked up the spanish radio station for about 10 minutes while we were inbound. That was the strangest thing.
Click to expand...

Where did this occur? We have had intermittent FM bleed over on the Bo's GTN 750 at various spots near DTO's traffic pattern. Never at altitude, but close to TPA, there is enough power for it to break squelch and we hear it.
 
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