Insurance Questions

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JB1842

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Josh
So I decided to file an insurance claim for my bad landing. I am expecting a rise in premiums, but my question(s) is what is taken into account for this. I was a student on a night training flight with a CFI aboard. The FAA is only classifying this as an incident. I have Falcon Insurance. Will being a student be to my benefit, as not being PIC, therefore not held to as much responsibility? Will getting more night training and passing my check ride in the next few weeks help mitigate the rise in premiums? Will the WINGS courses I have taken help? If my insurance company goes after my CFI's insurance will my premiums still rise? I know this is a lot of questions, and I wasn't sure I wanted to file a claim, but I think it would be in my best interest (and the plane) to go this route.
 
I always ask my broker what I can do to help lower my rates. She gives me useful answers, although sometimes the answer is "Nothing."
 
How much are we talking? My gut feeling is if it's an AMU or so, they might not hassle the CFI MUCH.

You weren't the first person to "stick" the landing in a Cessna 150, I haven't been following your previous thread that close by my feeling was that it was 10% pilot technique and 90% "something not right" with the plane.

If they see it as a "failure of the axle" then it might not be anything but "here's a check, thanks for your business"

Im just guessing :)
 
If you are turning it in I really really really suggest pulling the mount to be jigged by a mount shop.
 
bartmc said:
How much are we talking? My gut feeling is if it's an AMU or so, they might not hassle the CFI MUCH.

You weren't the first person to "stick" the landing in a Cessna 150, I haven't been following your previous thread that close by my feeling was that it was 10% pilot technique and 90% "something not right" with the plane.

If they see it as a "failure of the axle" then it might not be anything but "here's a check, thanks for your business"

Im just guessing :)
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When the whole tire rim is bent from hitting the runway edge, I'm not sure failure of the axle will fly.
 
JB1842 said:
When the whole tire rim is bent from hitting the runway edge, I'm not sure failure of the axle will fly.
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Failure of the axle would likely be viewed as a mechanical defect and not an accident as well
 
Skylane81E said:
If you are turning it in I really really really suggest pulling the mount to be jigged by a mount shop.
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My concern, too. Being a new owner, I'm being very cautious. I found all the parts I need off eBay for $400 that I can afford , but do I really want to trust them? Or do I want the tagged, inspected parts that are a bit out of my price range, and have a more thorough inspection done? The mechanic also wants to pull the main gear and look for cracks, which sounds reasonable. I have insurance for a reason. And any increase of premium hopefully won't be too bad.
 
JB1842 said:
My concern, too. Being a new owner, I'm being very cautious. I found all the parts I need off eBay for $400 that I can afford , but do I really want to trust them? Or do I want the tagged, inspected parts that are a bit out of my price range, and have a more thorough inspection done? The mechanic also wants to pull the main gear and look for cracks, which sounds reasonable. I have insurance for a reason. And any increase of premium hopefully won't be too bad.
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Used fork and wheel wouldn't scare me, easy for your mechanic to verify they are in serviceable condition prior to install.

A good hard look at the main gear saddles would be wise, I'm not sure the legs need to come out for it though. Does yours have spring or tubular gear? I would expect the mains didn't hit the runway edge very hard, as the plane likely pivoted forward when it took that hard hit on the nose, but now is the time to find out!
 
Skylane81E said:
Used fork and wheel wouldn't scare me, easy for your mechanic to verify they are in serviceable condition prior to install.

A good hard look at the main gear saddles would be wise, I'm not sure the legs need to come out for it though. Does yours have spring or tubular gear? I would expect the mains didn't hit the runway edge very hard, as the plane likely pivoted forward when it took that hard hit on the nose, but now is the time to find out!
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Not sure what the mains are. The fork and wheel were taken of for a tail wheel convert, and the seller guaranteed full refund if I didn't like them. So I could hold off on the claim until I get the nose gear and see if it will work.
 
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I there an aluminum fairing around the main gear legs or are they just a flat chunk of steel?
 
Based on what you have found parts for, I'm surprised about the claim. It sounds like it could all come in below your deductible. If its not more than $300-$400 above the deductible, why claim it?
 
I'm curious how this works, too. If the CFI is PIC, shouldn't the insurance claim go against the CFI? I realize it goes through the OP's insurance, but I didn't think the claim would go against him since he wasn't PIC.
 
BillTIZ said:
Based on what you have found parts for, I'm surprised about the claim. It sounds like it could all come in below your deductible. If its not more than $300-$400 above the deductible, why claim it?
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I have no deductible. I bought the parts last night, so i'll tell my insurance to cancel the claim.
 
When I renewed my insurance I distinctly remember being asked if I had any accidents or incidents in the last year. So would not filing even make a difference.
 
Crash it probably won't affect your rate. You're rated as high as it gets, anyway as it is.

Esp. won't affect the rate after the insurance company sees the CFI has insurance and recovers from that source, as he was the real PIC.
 
bbchien said:
Crash it probably won't affect your rate. You're rated as high as it gets, anyway as it is.

Esp. won't affect the rate after the insurance company sees the CFI has insurance and recovers from that source, as he was the real PIC.
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+1....:yes:
 
bbchien said:
Crash it probably won't affect your rate. You're rated as high as it gets, anyway as it is.

Esp. won't affect the rate after the insurance company sees the CFI has insurance and recovers from that source, as he was the real PIC.
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I do not know about aviation insurance, but my experience with car insurance, home insurance, and boating insurance is that they will use any reason, real or imagined, appropriate or inappropriate, logical or illogical, to increase you rate. So whereas the crash should not increase his rates, depending on the mood of the underwriter and the health and greediness of the insurance company, it still may increase his rates.
 
My wife works for state farm. She wants to avoid a claim, because as stated, any reason,to raise premiums is good enough for insurance companies.
 
Are they going to fix it where it is or perform a temp fix and ferry it back to your home field?
 
Fix it there. That field is actually closer to my house than it is to my home field.
 
JB1842 said:
My wife works for state farm. She wants to avoid a claim, because as stated, any reason,to raise premiums is good enough for insurance companies.
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You will likely find that aircraft insurance is different in that regard
 
I talked to the agent this morning. They are going to keep the file open, but wont do anything with it yet. Unless the parts i bought are unairworthy, i'll just pay out of pocket.
 
JB1842 said:
I have Falcon Insurance.
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Are you sure? I suspect that they are your insurance agent, not the insurance carrier.

These questions depend on the underwriting guidelines by the carrier. Ask your agent, as that is likely your only real source for this information. But I doubt he/she really knows for sure exactly what all goes into the price rating for any particular risk. The exact formula is generally proprietary. They pay actuaries a ton of money to prepare the guidelines for the underwriters to use, so they don't want competitors getting a pricing advantage. As to what credits or discounts you might get for various actions, again, your agent is going to be your best source.
 
PPC1052 said:
Are you sure? I suspect that they are your insurance agent, not the insurance carrier.

These questions depend on the underwriting guidelines by the carrier. Ask your agent, as that is likely your only real source for this information. But I doubt he/she really knows for sure exactly what all goes into the price rating for any particular risk. The exact formula is generally proprietary. They pay actuaries a ton of money to prepare the guidelines for the underwriters to use, so they don't want competitors getting a pricing advantage. As to what credits or discounts you might get for various actions, again, your agent is going to be your best source.
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They are my agent, carrier is someone different.
 
JB1842 said:
My wife works for state farm. She wants to avoid a claim, because as stated, any reason,to raise premiums is good enough for insurance companies.
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I have that thought also. I and others I know and love had had their rates raised or insurance cancelled because of making too many claims. These days I try to go with high deductibles and make as few claims as possible. I do like to have insurance to cover major losses.
 
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