Instrument Training

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spcalan1

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SpcAlan1
I completed the private through a Cessna training center.
I would say 70% knowledge from instructor, 30% FAR-AIM/Gleim...

Fast forward 2 years...
I would like to start my instrument training now, but the instructor wants me to take the written first before flying....

He says' just memorize' for written and get it done...
But I think the knowledge is probably 85% -15% flying...

I'm not a big fan of rote memorization, but rather OTJ training and the 'real world' knowledge.

I just assumed I would be 'taught' the written/oral during the flying portion... Or is he wanting to 'pass' me through?

Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.
I'm thinking 1 hr of ground school for 1 hour of flying... Maybe 2:1...
 
With all the flying,if you use equal amount of hours ,fling and ground,going to cost a good deal of money. Do the ground work on your own. And ask the instructor the parts you have difficulty with.
 
There's a lot of vocabulary and procedure to learn. I think an Instrument student could easily get lost without some rudeliments of the book knowledge. Read some of the threads in this section and see if you agree.

It was told to me that academic vs real-world differ enough that much of what you learn may be useless but it is the foundation for real world.
 
I do instrument training for a living with Professional Instrument Courses, and we agree that your instructor is giving you good advice. There is so little material in the IR written test that has any significant relevance to actual IFR flying that you might as well memorize the material and bang it out before you start the IR flight training.
 
I did it the way you are thinking about doing it. I read through both the Instrument Flying Handbook & Instrument Procedures Handbook cover to cover and did the King Course to take the written before I even started the flight/ground training. Some reasons I thought I benefitted from this approach:

  • I felt MUCH more prepared for flights than during the private
  • I felt I would have required more hours doing it the way I did the private
  • I felt I flew more training flights with a safety pilot as opposed to a CFII than I would have going with a more spoon-fed approach, thereby cutting out the cost of a CFII on over a 1/4 of the flights.

I could have probably done an even faster method of the written(Sheppard Air) and been in the same boat. But the Instrument rating was one in which I did most of the learning on my own BEFORE I started the training.

You know the fundamentals of how to fly the airplane. Now you are gonna learn how to be smooth and more precise with the airplane and a ton of rules and regulations. Most of the book learning can be knocked out beforehand by yourself.
 
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spcalan1 said:
I would say 70% knowledge from instructor, 30% FAR-AIM/Gleim...
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FAR and Gleim, ouch! That sucks

I'd get the King video program and work through the videos.

Then get dauntless written prep, download and update it, select show correct answer after question, average over 80% and you'll be good to go on the written.

Pick up "From the Ground Up" and "Everything explained for the professional pilot" books, they are great references.
 
I was never a fan of rote learning until I went through ASA's instrument test prep and read some of the questions about RNAV/GPS. Now, my advice to applicants is to just memorize those answers, because the real world has moved on.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
I was never a fan of rote learning until I went through ASA's instrument test prep and read some of the questions about RNAV/GPS. Now, my advice to applicants is to just memorize those answers, because the real world has moved on.



Bob Gardner
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Unfortunately many of the written exams are still pretty far removed..
I recommend rote for the advanced writtens, and then good materials for the real learning.
 
James331 said:
FAR and Gleim, ouch! That sucks

I'd get the King video program and work through the videos.

Then get dauntless written prep, download and update it, select show correct answer after question, average over 80% and you'll be good to go on the written.

Pick up "From the Ground Up" and "Everything explained for the professional pilot" books, they are great references.
Click to expand...

I've done all of my writtens past Private using the Gliem CD. I'm looking at it for my CFI Airplane, but they appear to be web based now.
 
BillTIZ said:
I've done all of my writtens past Private using the Gliem CD. I'm looking at it for my CFI Airplane, but they appear to be web based now.
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Sheppard Air is the way to go
 
Memorize the answers. The rest will come to you while you do your training and you'll actually learn the stuff.
 
Do the written first. I waited to start my training in earnest until I had my written done. I tried learning the info using King and Bob Gardners book to gain an understanding. If I has to do it over, I would have used Sheppard, memorized the answers to get it done then learned it. Probably would have been less stress, and I would have started my training earlier.
 
Did the written three times before the rating. It didn't teach me squat about Instrument flying.

It did attempt to teach me stupid crap like which way to turn an RMI, which in the real world is done by turning it, oh look it went the wrong way, and turning it the other way... If you can even find an aircraft equipped with one. LOL

Just knock out the written so you can get on with actually learning something. :)
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Sheppard Air is the way to go
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+1

Passed the written in a few weeks with almost a 90 if I recall from no real prior knowledge. Great system if you follow it. I too did my written before ever starting my ir training.
 
simtech said:
+1

Passed the written in a few weeks with almost a 90 if I recall from no real prior knowledge. Great system if you follow it. I too did my written before ever starting my ir training.
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+2

Did written before starting formal training, got my test endorsement from them, got a 88 score. And because I fed back 4 of the new sample questions that I saw, they refunded my purchase cost under their "No Surprises" policy.

Anything super important you need to know to operate in the system will come out from flying with your CFII and preparing for the check ride.
 
asgcpa said:
Do the written first. I waited to start my training in earnest until I had my written done. I tried learning the info using King and Bob Gardners book to gain an understanding. If I has to do it over, I would have used Sheppard, memorized the answers to get it done then learned it. Probably would have been less stress, and I would have started my training earlier.
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Since I have a little time on my hands before I start my training, I though I would spend the time on understanding before I take the written and about 30days prior, just do rote. Are you suggesting that even learning via Gardner/ King may be a waste of time?
 
denverpilot said:
Did the written three times before the rating. It didn't teach me squat about Instrument flying.

It did attempt to teach me stupid crap like which way to turn an RMI, which in the real world is done by turning it, oh look it went the wrong way, and turning it the other way... If you can even find an aircraft equipped with one. LOL

Just knock out the written so you can get on with actually learning something. :)
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Denver is correct in a lot of respects. There is so much antiquated material still remaining in the test bank, such as Microwave Landing Systems and LORAN. Although they are being decommissioned at a pretty good clip, there are plenty of ADF questions as well.

I took my test earlier this year (scored a 95) and tend to agree with others here that it has little to do with actual flying. A lot of it is theory and regulations and trip calculations. I read the Gleim book several times as well as the Instrument Procedures Handbook. I also subscribed to the King online course, which turned out to be pretty hokey with Martha in her jumpsuit and John with hair.

There are at least a dozen sites which have online practice tests and I would suggest going through a few. The last thing you want to do is get a low score as that will cause your examiner to dig deep and make for a very long and uncomfortable oral session.
 
ja_user said:
Unfortunately many of the written exams are still pretty far removed..
I recommend rote for the advanced writtens, and then good materials for the real learning.
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Jackie Spanitz, ASA's curriculum director, will be meeting with question writers later this month and is looking for ways to make the writtens more meaningful. I suggested that they do away with TSO numbers in question stems and just say WAAS or non-WAAS, and I expressed my displeasure with a question that related only to the G1000. Any other ideas would be welcome at jackie@asa2fly.com.

Bob Gardner
 
Jaybird180 said:
Since I have a little time on my hands before I start my training, I though I would spend the time on understanding before I take the written and about 30days prior, just do rote. Are you suggesting that even learning via Gardner/ King may be a waste of time?
Click to expand...

Do not fail to go to www.asa2fly.com, click on Resources, then, over on the left, on Knowledge Test Updates. It is a fact of publishing life that new editions are printed only when current editions sell out, so many changes can and will be made between editions. I write new text to cover each new area of inquiry, but that new text doesn't make it into a book right away.

Bob Gardner
 
Ron Levy said:
I do instrument training for a living with Professional Instrument Courses, and we agree that your instructor is giving you good advice. There is so little material in the IR written test that has any significant relevance to actual IFR flying that you might as well memorize the material and bang it out before you start the IR flight training.
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I agree. I just finished my IR in May 2014 but I finished the test long before starting flying.

Couple things about the IR:

  • The FAA knowledge test is waaaaay outdated and not very geared toward the way people actually fly IFR. It is so obtuse that it becomes more difficult than the private written, especially if you try to apply real world experience to it.
  • Get the King vids. They do a great job of explaining the dumber parts of the test material. Also Gleim, ASA, etc., take some practice tests and then go bang out the test. No pilot should be able to get the rating without having an image of Martha King's face permanently etched into his cerebral cortex. :D
  • When you start the flying part, you will need to focus just on the flying and not be wasting time worrying about the finer points of RMIs (unless you have one... but the point is that there is stuff on the test you can forget when you start flying).
  • If you don't have the test done by the time you finish flying, you'll have to wait to take your check ride and instrument skills degrade quickly. Best to get through the test and then save your pennies and do the flying portion in as short a time span as you can manage.
And good luck! Being instrument rated and actually flying IFR opens up so many options and removes a lot of worries from what would otherwise be no-go or sketchy MVFR flights.
 
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spcalan1 said:
... the instructor wants me to take the written first before flying ... Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.
I'm thinking 1 hr of ground school for 1 hour of flying... Maybe 2:1...
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I think the other posters are missing the point. You have an issue with this instructor. If you can't talk to him enough to discuss and resolve this issue, then you need a different instructor.

This is regardless of whether the other posters here have convinced you that his idea is sound. That is not the point. There will be many things in the future where you will want to learn something a certain way and, if this instructor thinks differently and you cannot discuss and resolve it, you will be an unhappy camper. Don't sign up for this.
 
the400kid said:
Denver is correct in a lot of respects. There is so much antiquated material still remaining in the test bank, such as Microwave Landing Systems and LORAN. Although they are being decommissioned at a pretty good clip, there are plenty of ADF questions as well.
Click to expand...

Not as of the most recent test update earlier this year (Thank God).
 
bobmrg said:
Jackie Spanitz, ASA's curriculum director, will be meeting with question writers later this month and is looking for ways to make the writtens more meaningful. I suggested that they do away with TSO numbers in question stems and just say WAAS or non-WAAS, and I expressed my displeasure with a question that related only to the G1000. Any other ideas would be welcome at jackie@asa2fly.com.

Bob Gardner
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Here's one idea... Tie the IFR question bank into the areas that the PTS covers.

All of the various areas, tasks, special emphasis items in the PTS provide plenty of question fodder for the examiner. Makes a lot of sense to have the question on the written be more in line with the examiner might ask.

And make them a bit more scenario based, like the examiner would ask. One I got today from my CFII during an oral prep session was "If you did engage your alternate static source, would you now be in a situation was was more safe or less safe than before it clogged up?"

Many questions in the current bank are current and the five experimental questions I got on my exam are more scenario based, but there are many that are very outdated.

Plus as frequently discussed, the current exam is too far tilted to rote learning (memorize and regurgitate) than practical learning and application. The exam needs to get pushed to the application and correlation levels.
 
The American Flyer streaming videos are pretty good and you get the book that goes with it and an MS flight simulator X add-in which is also pretty well done. I like Rod Machado's book to fill in where the other stuff falls short.
 
bobmrg said:
Jackie Spanitz, ASA's curriculum director, will be meeting with question writers later this month and is looking for ways to make the writtens more meaningful. I suggested that they do away with TSO numbers in question stems and just say WAAS or non-WAAS, and I expressed my displeasure with a question that related only to the G1000. Any other ideas would be welcome at jackie@asa2fly.com.

Bob Gardner
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That is interesting, as a G1000 question is only one software update away from being incorrect....

I have yet to actually fly anything with a G1000, as there are still very few options around here.. Somehow i doubt the questions are that precise anyway....
 
Jaybird180 said:
Since I have a little time on my hands before I start my training, I though I would spend the time on understanding before I take the written and about 30days prior, just do rote. Are you suggesting that even learning via Gardner/ King may be a waste of time?
Click to expand...

Not suggesting that at all. Gardner's book and the king course was very helpful and helped me learn for the practical end of things. The knowledge test is another beast with poorly worded question. I would have memorized the questions, taken the test, and then after passing really diced into the material before covering it in flight via a syllabus. Another guy I know spent months going through Jepp, he really knows his stuff when you talk to him, yet he got a 74 on the test. I really think the questions are poorly written on the knowledge test.
 
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I'm in the same boat as the OP. This thread is an eye opener. I have a followup question, if I may. To take the written one must have the endorsement, correct? If I go with Sheppard Air prep, who/how will endorse me for the written?
 
Phillip said:
I'm in the same boat as the OP. This thread is an eye opener. I have a followup question, if I may. To take the written one must have the endorsement, correct? If I go with Sheppard Air prep, who/how will endorse me for the written?
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Sheppard will provide the endorsement. I posed the same question to them. My instructions were to email screen shots of two simulated exams with scores of at least 90% or better to them.

When I did that, I was emailed a properly worded endorsement and signature within 3 hours.

Sheppard Air are good folks and have excellent service.
 
One tip for the written exam when using SheppardAir.

Part of their package is a Memory Aid Sheet.

After I worked through their entire product and was getting good results on the quizzes and practice exams, I took the next large block of study time and worked to memorize the sheet and recreate on a blank piece of paper.

When the proctor said "Begin your test" my first 10 minutes was doing a a memory dump of this sheet onto on of the blank sheets the test center provided.

About 12-15 questions I got for my exam were ones that this memory aid covers. So by "bringing in" the memory sheet the way I did, I was able to verify what I chose as the write answer with the sheet.
 
I took the written first as your instructor (and many knowledgeable people here) suggest. The written about to expire was what spurred me on to finish up :).
 
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