Instrument training

[redtail]

Hi, I'm just shy of 200 hrs Private Pilot and would like to start my IFR training but due to my rotating work schedule (i work around the clock and many weekends), wife(who also works around the clock and many weekends) and 6 yr old son, I have very little time to fly (about once a month). Sometimes I manage to squeeze in two flights a month. For this reason I've been putting off starting my training

Is it worth the effort to start if I can only manage one or two lessons a month or should I just wait until I can devote more time to it? Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[weilke]

At that rate, it'll take forever and become frustrating in a hurry.

Do you think you will fly more after the rating ? If not, maintaining proficiency (even if you maintain currency) will be a challenge.

Is there a way for you to take two blocks of one week each that you can clear off all other responsibilities ?

 

[redtail]

unfortunately the answer to both questions is no. I Don't think time would allow me to fly more after the rating and there's no way I could take a block of time as you suggest for the training. Damn, I really want to start though. I know the training would improve my VFR flying and make me a safer pilot even if I have no real desire to fly in clouds(which I don't)

 

[redtail]

my only possible chance of two weeks of time free is next summer when my wife and I both take vacation time. I ran the thought of it past her just now and she said it's ok with her if i wanted to use the time for flight training. She said they would just find something else to do without me. She sounds very supportive of me doing this...right now:wink2: What do you think?

 

[Ted]

The problem with getting the instrument rating and not practicing it is that you will get rusty fast. Combine this with the fact that you're starting out as a newbie with no experience, that's a bad combination.

There's no reason not to do the training if you're interested in it, but just keep in mind that it will be very slow, and therefore might be frustrating.

 

[N801BH]

unfortunately the answer to both questions is no. I Don't think time would allow me to fly more after the rating and there's no way I could take a block of time as you suggest for the training. Damn, I really want to start though. I know the training would improve my VFR flying and make me a safer pilot even if I have no real desire to fly in clouds(which I don't)

Just try to fly VFR as often as you can.... A safe VFR pilot is staying current and using all the tools you learned in the PP course. As the others have said,, starting IFR training with very little practice time will get frustrating fast and possibly a waste of money as you will be repeated stuff.... IMHO
I am guessing you are in the medical field ?

Good luck whatever you decide though.

Ben

 

[brcase]

My opinion is there is little down side to starting the Instrument training. Just realize that twice a month progress will be very slow and it won't be the least expensive way to get an instrument rating. On the other hand getting a CFII to start showing you some of the basics will only cost you the CFII's time as you would be flying anyway. And perhaps you can study and practice on MS Flight simulator or something simlar in between lessons.

One thing to consider is Instrument training can easily be done at night which might make some more time available to you.

At some point you are going to decide to get it done and will have devote more time to it, such as your vaction to finish it.

You probably won't maintain currency, few pilots do, after you get your Instrument rating but you will fly better and understand the airspace system better.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[NoHeat]

If you do the written part first, you could take an intensive instrument rating course, one where you fly several times a day and almost completely occupy your instructor's time. Two weeks might be long enough - somebody else here would know for sure.

 

[weilke]

my only possible chance of two weeks of time free is next summer when my wife and I both take vacation time. I ran the thought of it past her just now and she said it's ok with her if i wanted to use the time for flight training. She said they would just find something else to do without me. She sounds very supportive of me doing this...right now:wink2: What do you think?

What I think? Does she have a sister ?

Find a place that offers something for her to do and have her join you for the second week.

(Btw 'do whatever the #### you want' is not an endorsement of any male activity plans, same for 'it's ok' and 'I'm fine')

 

[somorris]

Go for it Redtail. Who cares how long it takes. It is training. The thing that made me finish up the IR was that my written was about to run out (two years in training). I think flying over a longer period of time in all kinds of weather conditions will make you a better IR pilot.

 

[poadeleted20]

Trying to learn instrument flying when you're taking one or two lessons a month and doing no flying in between is only going to be frustrating. Essentially, you'll do the same thing each time because you'll need to knock the rust off what you learned before you learn more, and you'll never get past square one in any reasonable time. Doing an intensive course like PIC offers during a two-week period would be the way to go, but you'll have to make time to fly more than once or twice a month for a few weeks after the training so you don't lose what you learned.

 

[redtail]

thanks guys for all of the great advice. I guess the hardest part is taking the first step. Going to think over it a little more and get to studying in the mean time. I really have this burning desire to get it under way. It's a goal thing I guess. Not for a career or anything like that, just an achievement. Same as my childhood desire to become a pilot which I finally was able to do at age 33. Now I'm 46

 

[Jaybird180]

On average, how much time does it take to "cement" the training?

 

[poadeleted20]

On average, how much time does it take to "cement" the training?

I've not done any formal study on the matter, but I'd say 4-6 IFR flights including at least two approaches each (SIAP's, not visuals) within a month after the practical test should do well.

 

[redtail]

Just try to fly VFR as often as you can.... A safe VFR pilot is staying current and using all the tools you learned in the PP course. As the others have said,, starting IFR training with very little practice time will get frustrating fast and possibly a waste of money as you will be repeated stuff.... IMHO
I am guessing you are in the medical field ?

Good luck whatever you decide though.

Ben

thanks. No I'm actually in the electrical field.

 

[DrMack]

If your problem is time, then you need to find an instructor who can do two or three lessons per week at your convenience, not theirs. For most folks the problem is money, not time. Under the hood it doesn't matter if it's day or night and MVFR and even a few in IMC is not a problem in the latter stages. If you don't get through the program at least get a good dose of BAI so that you can master the life saving 180 in the slag if you inadvertently ever fly into it.

It frightens me now to think about how I flew before instrument training. I still believe that I was a pretty good VFR pilot but now that I know what I didn't know, to borrow a theme from Secretary Rumsfeld, it's pretty scary to reflect on some of my trips before instrument training. In this game it's what you don't know that is certain to kill you and any instrument training will better your odds of not getting smitten by the weather gods.

 

[weilke]

If you don't get through the program at least get a good dose of BAI so that you can master the life saving 180 in the slag if you inadvertently ever fly into it.

I actually believe that being 1/2 way through an instrument rating is one of the more dangerous spots in a flying career. It is rare that a 180 is what gets you out of trouble but there is seemingly a strong temptation to embark on flights that would have been scrubbed prior to learning a little bit about instrument flying.

 

[redtail]

which is exactly why I want to do this. I've had a couple of "lower than forecast" visibility flights this year and to be honest, I didn't feel very comfortable in the situation especially one with family on board! It was haze and I had good ground contact but forward visibility was a lot lower than predicted. It was a short flight to another airport and I never felt like I needed to make that 180 but I kept that thought at the top of my brain during the entire 20min flight. Knowing that if I had any doubt or sign that it would get worst, I'd get on instruments and make the 180 turn back to home plate! I try to always be cautious and safety minded.

 

[weilke]

which is exactly why I want to do this. I've had a couple of "lower than forecast" visibility flights this year and to be honest, I didn't feel very comfortable in the situation especially one with family on board! It was haze and I had good ground contact but forward visibility was a lot lower than predicted. It was a short flight to another airport and I never felt like I needed to make that 180 but I kept that thought at the top of my brain during the entire 20min flight. Knowing that if I had any doubt or sign that it would get worst, I'd get on instruments and make the 180 turn back to home plate! I try to always be cautious and safety minded.

Instrument rated pilots who engage in 'scud running' (or more generically 'VFR flight in marginal weather') die the same as pure VFR flyers. Instrument flight is safer than visual flight IF performed in the instrument system with adherence to MEAs, use of navigational facilities etc. Just poking around in the murk with the rating is still dangerous.

 

[redtail]

the other flight I was alone, forecast said 7sm vis. Took off for short hop to another field and once airborne, the damn visibility was more like 3 or 4! I called tower on crosswind leg and told them I'd like to amend my flightplan and just remain in the pattern

 

[Ghery]

The problem with getting the instrument rating and not practicing it is that you will get rusty fast. Combine this with the fact that you're starting out as a newbie with no experience, that's a bad combination.

Amen to that.

One thing to consider is Instrument training can easily be done at night which might make some more time available to you.

Much of my training last winter was at night. It gets dark early around here and flying after work was nigh flying. Maintained night currency without even trying.

I've not done any formal study on the matter, but I'd say 4-6 IFR flights including at least two approaches each (SIAP's, not visuals) within a month after the practical test should do well.

I'm in trouble. Passed the IR ride on September 8, and September 11 was the last time I've touched the countrols of a powered aircraft. Too much travel this fall. Plan is to go fly the week after Christmas and drag my CFII along to see just how much I've forgotten. Less travel after the 1st of the year, so I should have a better shot at staying current.

 

[SteveinNC]

I can only speak for myself, but I'm just not sure that only 2x per month would really work for me. I don't think I have the retention capacity for it. I spread it out over 60 days and that was about right for me.

Is there a chance of using a sim at home maybe? I think that would be huge...chair flying really does help.

 

[redtail]

I can only speak for myself, but I'm just not sure that only 2x per month would really work for me. I don't think I have the retention capacity for it. I spread it out over 60 days and that was about right for me.

Is there a chance of using a sim at home maybe? I think that would be huge...chair flying really does help.

i do have a sim, well actually a few. X-plane 9 & FSX. Don't actually use them much but I know they're great tools for home practice

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm in trouble. Passed the IR ride on September 8, and September 11 was the last time I've touched the countrols of a powered aircraft. Too much travel this fall. Plan is to go fly the week after Christmas and drag my CFII along to see just how much I've forgotten.

Good plan.

 

[poadeleted20]

Is there a chance of using a sim at home maybe? I think that would be huge...chair flying really does help.

If you're talking about using a sim at home between training sessions to practice what you learned in the last training session, that's a good idea. Your instructor should be able to help you identify what to practice and how to practice it.

 

[flyingtexas]

Redtail, have you started ground school or are you going to do it yourself? I just started, bought a book and reading on my own.

 

[redtail]

No, I'm doing the same as you. I bought a used copy of the Jeppensen Intrument/Commercial book. Reading that for now

 

[MBDiagMan]

One of my instructors told me that all I need is a copy of the Instrument Flying Handbook and a copy of the FAR/AIM. I already have the FAR/AIM so I started reading. LOTS of information in there. I ordered a copy of the handbook and expect to have it in a few days.

While I was ordering the handbook, I ordered the ASA book for learning the written test information.

I was told in another thread, that the main thing was to learn to fly on instruments with precision. I am having fun right now building cross country time. I've logged a little over 20 hours solo cross country time. I am planning on starting my reading while logging more cross country time. I get another 10 hours in my log book, and I'll back off the fun part a little bit and start flying under the hood with the instructor.

 

[Jaybird180]

One of my instructors told me that all I need is a copy of the Instrument Flying Handbook and a copy of the FAR/AIM. I already have the FAR/AIM so I started reading. LOTS of information in there. I ordered a copy of the handbook and expect to have it in a few days.

While I was ordering the handbook, I ordered the ASA book for learning the written test information.

Both the Instrument Flying Handbook and the Instrument Procedures Guide are free to download from the FAA's website.

I was told in another thread, that the main thing was to learn to fly on instruments with precision. I am having fun right now building cross country time. I've logged a little over 20 hours solo cross country time. I am planning on starting my reading while logging more cross country time. I get another 10 hours in my log book, and I'll back off the fun part a little bit and start flying under the hood with the instructor.

Now that's what I call hands-off flying

 

[poadeleted20]

One of my instructors told me that all I need is a copy of the Instrument Flying Handbook and a copy of the FAR/AIM.

Bad advice. As a minimum, if you go the FAA pubs route, you want:

• FAR/AIM
• Instrument Flying Handbook
• Instrument Procedures Handbook
• Aviation Weather
• Aviation Weather Services

All five are available free in electronic form from the FAA web site.

I get another 10 hours in my log book, and I'll back off the fun part a little bit and start flying under the hood with the instructor.

I hope it's not the one who said you only need the FAR/AIM and IFH -- find someone who knows more about preparing people for the IR written and practical tests.

 

[VT172C]

Wait on the intsrument until you have the time to do the training on a better schedule and stay current. Satisfy your need to fly better by taking some upset recovery training, beginner aerobatics, some glider flights, seaplane...so many things to fly, so little time !

 

[bobmrg]

unfortunately the answer to both questions is no. I Don't think time would allow me to fly more after the rating and there's no way I could take a block of time as you suggest for the training. Damn, I really want to start though. I know the training would improve my VFR flying and make me a safer pilot even if I have no real desire to fly in clouds(which I don't)

I don't think that anyone gets an instrument rating so that they can fly in clouds. My first question to a briefer is "What are the tops?" for that very reason. An instrument rating allows you to punch through a cloud layer(s) to clear skies above.

Having said that, I think that you should save your money and be the best VFR pilot around. If you don't have the time to stay proficient, the instrument rating can be a killer...leading you into situations beyond your capabilities and experience.

Bob Gardner

 

[MBDiagMan]

Great information in this thread! Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge.

BTW: I guess I will back off of reading and flying at the same time.

 

[olasek]

All five are available free in electronic form from the FAA web site.

I can vouch for that, I have been having them on my Ipad for some time! I only had to pay $4.00 for an app to let me handle/store PDF documents.

 

[TMetzinger]

Understanding weather is critical to safe IFR decision-making.

If, like me, weather is something you find hard to grasp, I highly recommend "Aviation Weather" by Peter Lester, published by Jeppesen.

 

[Jaybird180]

I can vouch for that, I have been having them on my Ipad for some time! I only had to pay $4.00 for an app to let me handle/store PDF documents.

Why not the built in app? iBooks.

 

[denverpilot]

Goodreader works nicely and has great Dropbox integration. Easier to organize stuff than in iBooks.

 

[olasek]

Why not the built in app? iBooks.

You know, one can be quite ignorant of the stuff around, I am new to the Mac world, had no clue about iBooks, thanks for the tip.

 

[Ghery]

I don't think that anyone gets an instrument rating so that they can fly in clouds. My first question to a briefer is "What are the tops?" for that very reason. An instrument rating allows you to punch through a cloud layer(s) to clear skies above.


Bob Gardner

Amen to that! Flogging off across the state in the clag isn't my idea of fun. Punching through a layer over OLM so I can fly in the clear across the state, now that's why I got the IR.

 

[BrianNC]

As one who took their first flying lesson on Feb. 17, 1979, and finally passed my private pilot checkride on Dec. 31, 2001 (yes, it only took me 23 years), I made the decision that any rating after that would be an accelerated course. So for my IR I did a 2 week accelerated course and had that just 7 months later after taking 23 years to get my private.

So I vote for doing it on your vacation with an accelerated course.