Instrument training…

[StraightnLevel]

Yesterday I went up with a CFI doing IR training. Focus was partial panel work, fun stuff.

Partway through the flight, CFI covered the attitude indicator - fine, no problem. As I’m flying along, though, the G5 HI started to flash the heading number in yellow, then slowly started to rotate left, ending at about a 20 degree offset. From that point forward, the G5 and G650 (?) were giving bogus headings, both VOR and GPS. No backup in the plane.

So, we had a real partial panel situation to deal with. IPad took over for nav, as there was no other option. I found it really difficult to ignore the G5, and finally ended up turning the brightness down so it wouldn’t distract me.

I’m starting to see how a pilot can get into trouble really quickly if they get in over their head and have an equipment problem…

 

[midlifeflyer]

and finally ended up turning the brightness down so it wouldn’t distract me.

It has long been the practice of pilots with analog gauges to carry stickies to cover a failed AI or DG in order to avoid that distraction. At least the backlight in modern systems can be turned down.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Yesterday I went up with a CFI doing IR training. Focus was partial panel work, fun stuff.

Partway through the flight, CFI covered the attitude indicator - fine, no problem. As I’m flying along, though, the G5 HI started to flash the heading number in yellow, then slowly started to rotate left, ending at about a 20 degree offset. From that point forward, the G5 and G650 (?) were giving bogus headings, both VOR and GPS. No backup in the plane.

So, we had a real partial panel situation to deal with. IPad took over for nav, as there was no other option. I found it really difficult to ignore the G5, and finally ended up turning the brightness down so it wouldn’t distract me.

I’m starting to see how a pilot can get into trouble really quickly if they get in over their head and have an equipment problem…

I can see how having a faulty G5 with so much data packed into it would be hard to have go TU and ignore.
During one of my IFR training flights last year my steam gauge turn coordinator failed. It was permanently stuck wings level.
Every time I rolled into a turn it felt weird seeing wings level on the TC and caused me to second guess everything. IDK why but it took me longer than it should have to adjust, despite having a redundant TC built into the G5 AI.
Now I have stickies like midlifeflyer mentioned. Easier to not see the gauge at all than to see it and have to mentally discard it.

 

[StraightnLevel]

It has long been the practice of pilots with analog gauges to carry stickies to cover a failed AI or DG in order to avoid that distraction. At least the backlight in modern systems can be turned down.

Now I have stickies like midlifeflyer mentioned. Easier to not see the gauge at all than to see it and have to mentally discard it.

It's really surprising to learn just how difficult it is to ignore a known bad indicator.

 

[mandm]

Failed Instrument Cover

Made with heat resistant silicon Sporty's® developed this simple silicon disc with a suction cup on the back to allow you to practice instrument flying with a "failed instrument" (partial panel) and also to cover an instrument that actually fails in flight.

www.sportys.com

I have two of these in the airplane, come to think about it, I should double check they are in the side pocket. Also good to practice using them from time to time.

Do you have a compass in your aircraft? I think you are supposed to use that and the turn coordinator when your vacuum system or G5’s fails. But G5 is not supposed to fail, but I have plenty of times when Garmin stuff fails. Foreflight never failed for me once.

 

[StraightnLevel]

.

Do you have a compass in your aircraft? I think you are supposed to use that and the turn coordinator when your vacuum system or G5’s fails. But G5 is not supposed to fail, but I have plenty of times when Garmin stuff fails. Foreflight never failed for me once.

Yes, a compass and a standard DG. Coupled with FF on the iPad it's a workable backup. Not fun, though.

 

[MauleSkinner]

IPad took over for nav, as there was no other option.

Without heading info, navigation doesn’t work? Seems like a not so goodly system.

 

[Mikey52]

But you have a track and a magenta line.

 

[mandm]

But you have a track and a magenta line.

It’s a lot happening but I will try that next time.

 

[mandm]

Yes, a compass and a standard DG. Coupled with FF on the iPad it's a workable backup. Not fun, though.

I totally agree with you and I’m just wondering if my mind will make the right decisions. I’m already on high workload while in IMC and especially if you are flying in a crazy airspace like let’s say Chicago where you are cleared one route, get another route, and then get vectors. It becomes a nightmare to keep reprogramming while hand flying in IMC (happened the other day). Now add a failure, I would be in trouble.

I emailed Garmin about returning some equipment for repair and I told them exactly this. It’s not fun when your equipment craps out when you are in IMC. Hopefully they will fix it. They were terrible about email responses during Covid but at least now I got an acknowledgement email and response. I also need to send in my GDL50 too. Don’t rely on that if it’s the midst of summer or the sun is beating on your aircraft.

 

[StraightnLevel]

But you have a track and a magenta line.

Not trustworthy. When the plane’s GPS is giving bad readings, I’m not going to rely on anything it displays.

 

[ateamer]

One of the coolest things that happened during instrument training was a failed AI. It didn’t go quickly. Over a 10 or 15 minute period, it was gradually contradicting the rest of the panel. It really reinforced a proper scan, a lesson never forgotten.

It had failed internally, a bearing if I recall correctly.

 

[Mikey52]

Not trustworthy. When the plane’s GPS is giving bad readings, I’m not going to rely on anything it displays.

If you have an iPad with cellular, you have an independent gps source. Now if you are also in a raim outage are, you might have to use the cellular signal and hit your own location in the maps app. Only works in slow planes though.

 

[Banjo33]

I had a DG go bad once. As I completed a turn, it just started spinning quickly in one direction. Consistent rate and direction. I’ve probably had hundreds of various instrument failures in military simulators and was very surprised at how distracting and disorienting this was, even with two stable attitude (and all other instruments) indicators. I covered it and was immediately relieved, but admit it would have been very difficult to fly a stable instrument approach if that was in my vision. My DG sits to the right of the primary AI instead of above, so a little more difficult to ignore it.

 

[Clip4]

Yes, a compass and a standard DG. Coupled with FF on the iPad it's a workable backup. Not fun, though.

Navigation and approaches with a mag compass, turn coordinator, stop watch and VOR is a lost art with IR pilots today.

 

[mandm]

Navigation and approaches with a mag compass, turn coordinator, stop watch and VOR is a lost art with IR pilots today.

Google search
Def:VOR
Result: No results found

What’s a VOR?

 

[StraightnLevel]

Navigation and approaches with a mag compass, turn coordinator, stop watch and VOR is a lost art with IR pilots today.

A mag compass is no longer required for IR, so yes.

That said, they certainly still teach standard rate turns and VOR. I took my checkride in a plane that was VOR only.

 

[Jim Carpenter]

It has long been the practice of pilots with analog gauges to carry stickies to cover a failed AI or DG in order to avoid that distraction. At least the backlight in modern systems can be turned down.

Or use a few of the $100 bills from the stack that all of us pilots carry.

 

[Tools]

Partial panel nowadays is a whole new thing… not sure the ACS and training systems have really kept up.

Had 8 round things in the past, limited number of failures. The vast array of stuff now, and the vast array of ways they can fail/deceive/confuse, not to mention self induced problems… it’s daunting.

THEN finding a reason to train to what you may experience when it’s not necessary for a check ride, takes ADM to a new level.

Even coming up with scenarios for what you might likely experience is challenging. I don’t do a lot of instrument training, but do try weird but plausible scenarios once in a while. Always met with wide eyes!!

Honestly, I experience a lot of this with the weird equipment I fly these days, old cargo converted MD-80s, some with varying levels of Universal flight management systems cobbled into them. It’s CHALLENGING.

Bottom line is you gotta find SOME WAY to survive just long enough to get to where you can be comfortable. IE get vmc, stay vmc AND LAND. Or some derivative thereof. To do that, you gotta know where the less challenging conditions lie relative to your present position ALL THE TIME.

 

[StraightnLevel]

What’s a VOR?

VOR: A large cake-shaped building dating from the mid 20th century. They are often filled with obsolete, inoperative electronics. Theories abound that these are ancient burial grounds for deceased ded-reconing skills.