Instrument Flying Handbook Updated

tonycondon

tonycondon

Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
15,465
Location
Wichita, KS
Display Name
Display name:
Tony
Im looking through the shiny new Instrument Flying Handbook on the FAA's website. I can't find anything at all in there about Back Course approaches. Am I blind or something???
 
the Instrument Procedures Handbook has one paragraph of about 3 sentences. Wow, Stand Back.
 
The best you will get is the brief discussions in the ILS section in Charter 7 (7-39 to 7-42...briefly).
 
really jeff? i didnt see anything about back course in those pages. must be really brief.

the procedures handbook has its 5 lines dedicated to the back course related to a half a page to the MLS. wtf!? the difference is that someone may actually fly a back course approach some day.
 
Yeah, it's definitely in the section Jeff referenced, about 5 or 6 times. But it's scattered in, like...
The localizer (LOC) ground antenna array is located on the
extended centerline of the instrument runway of an airport,
located at the departure end of the runway to prevent it from
being a collision hazard. This unit radiates a field pattern,
which develops a course down the centerline of the runway
toward the middle markers (MMs) and outer markers
(OMs), and a similar course along the runway centerline in
the opposite direction. These are called the front and back
courses, respectively.
Click to expand...
on page 7-39.
 
MLS = Missed-the-boat Landing System

Is there even one installed in a civilian aircraft anymore?
 
tonycondon said:
im trying to teach electrical engineers how to fly a back course. god help me.
Click to expand...
Here ya go:

Flip the switch (EE's like that) and drag the needle with you.

OR

Flip the switch and chase the HSI.
 
nice jeff. well it was easier to convince them of their wrongs than i feared. sometimes they get so stuck in the requirements that are written that they fail to realize what the thing SHOULD be doing.
 
If your obs has the needle hinged at the top, just fly the top of the needle. Of course you're hosed if you have that fancy obs where the two needles are always at a right angle. In the Skylane I flew the BC RWY 18 at osh on nav 2 exacly because of that:D

Pete
 
The FAA has been quietly eliminating back course approaches either by putting in a localizer the other way (often on the same frequency, with a one-way-or-the-other switch in the tower cab) or by replacing the back course with a GPS approach. I think it is their objective to get rid of them all (just like they want NDB approaches gone, and are slowly making it happen). Anyone tried looking for a BC approach lately (I have done so during instrument training sessions)? I know there's one at New Bedford MA (EWB ), but I don't think there are any in the Mid-Atlantic region. Therefore, I'm not surprised that the discussion on the subject in the new IFH is limited.
 
Last edited:
there is one in mason city ia and i think dubuque ia has one too
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA has been quietly eliminating back course approaches either by putting in a localizer the other way (often on the same frequency, with a one-way-or-the-other switch in the tower cab) or by replacing the back course with a GPS approach. I think it is their objective to get rid of them all (just like they want NDB approaches gone, and are slowly making it happen). Anyone tried looking for a BC approach lately (I have done so during instrument training sessions)? I know there's one at New Bedford MA (EWB ), but I don't think there are any in the Mid-Atlantic region. Therefore, I'm not surprised that the discussion on the subject in the new IFH is limited.
Click to expand...
There is definitely one, that is used more than 50% of the time, at KPTK. I'd love it if they would provide an RNAV (LPV) approach.
 
Last edited:
Tuscon Intl in Tuscon, Az has one. It's the only place within about 100 miles of Phoenix that I could find/can remember having one. They're definitely sparse these days.
 
I know I have done a LOC-BC for real within the last six months at Waterloo, IA. http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0709/00945LBC30.PDF

I also noticed the other day they still have one in Boise, ID. They're still around but not as numerous as they once were. It's always kind of a shock when they assign a BC.
 
Everskyward said:
I know I have done a LOC-BC for real within the last six months at Waterloo, IA. http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0709/00945LBC30.PDF

I also noticed the other day they still have one in Boise, ID. They're still around but not as numerous as they once were. It's always kind of a shock when they assign a BC.
Click to expand...
I got slapped with one at Lunken (KLUK), and I know that Rockford (KRFD) has one too. They're still around.
 
Ron Levy said:
Anyone tried looking for a BC approach lately (I have done so during instrument training sessions)? I know there's one at New Bedford MA (EWB ), but I don't think there are any in the Mid-Atlantic region.
Click to expand...

Martinsburg (MRB ) has one.......that is, if they ever get the rwy construction complete so the LOC is back up and running again. Had fun doing BC's there.
 
Tony, there is a half a page and an example of a back course approach into KSLE on page 10-24 of ASA's Complete Advanced Pilot. I'd type it up but I wasn't sure if you were looking more for an explanation to help describe it or for pictures with examples. I am not finding any ILS back course demonstrations online. I'd be nice if someone made a flash version or some sort of short video.

Here's their example approach plate. http://map.aeroplanner.com/plates/FaaPlates_pdfs/00361LBC13.PDF
 
Tony,

When you get around to testing your student's knowlege of how a BC works, show them either the missed approach procedure or the Lindz departure at Aspen (ASE) and ask them what they'd see (either CDI or HSI, depending upon your training program) if they were left of course headed northwestbound on the BC.

Of course, don't do this in a pilot's lounge full of corporate pilots...you'll start one heck of an argument! ;)

Fly safe!

David
 
haha thanks david.

tristan, thanks. it turned out it didnt take nearly as much convincing at work as i was fearing so me teaching them to fly a back course was unnecessary.
 
I had to look and make sure we still had ours at Ottumwa; sure enough, its still here. Within the last six months we got an LPV approach into the same runway, so I'm guessing that our backcourse could be disappearing soon.
 
There's a LOC-BC 6 at KPNE, unless it was notam-ed away. It's still published, at least. It's a lot closer to you than Iowa!
 
If you don't have an HSI, the best technique I've found for dealing with the reverse sensing on a back course is repeating the mantra "I am the needle." That works well for me. I don't even think about the reverse sensing, just which way I need to adjust my heading to move the needle back to center.

If you're taking an instrument checkride in the neighborhood of Boise, ID the chances are pretty high you'll be flying the backcourse 28L as one of your approaches. It's pretty challenging, especially when you get close to the MAP since you're much closer to the localizer transmitter than you would be on the front course.

Phil
www.pfactor.com
 
Phil Verghese said:
If you don't have an HSI, the best technique I've found for dealing with the reverse sensing on a back course is repeating the mantra "I am the needle."
Click to expand...

I tried that at first, and I know it works for many people, but it wasn't working so well for me.

What I do now is to think of "dragging the needle" back to the center. Works like a charm. :yes:

Or, at least it did a couple of years ago when I last flew a backcourse... :redface: Time to head to DBQ...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I tried that at first, and I know it works for many people, but it wasn't working so well for me.

What I do now is to think of "dragging the needle" back to the center. Works like a charm. :yes:

Or, at least it did a couple of years ago when I last flew a backcourse... :redface: Time to head to DBQ...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think of it as "dragging the needle" too.

And I don't think you have to go to DBQ. Doesn't RFD have one a lot closer to you?

My first experience with an HSI was shooting an ILS in the 310. Man, that was a quick introduction!
 
If you have an OBS with the needle hinged at the top, you just fly the top of the needle. Simple as pie.

Pete
 
MauleSkinner said:
Tony,

When you get around to testing your student's knowlege of how a BC works, show them either the missed approach procedure or the Lindz departure at Aspen (ASE) and ask them what they'd see (either CDI or HSI, depending upon your training program) if they were left of course headed northwestbound on the BC.

Of course, don't do this in a pilot's lounge full of corporate pilots...you'll start one heck of an argument! ;)

Fly safe!

David
Click to expand...
In fact for this one, I flew it in VFR intentionally. There can be no room for doubt on this one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top