Incorrect log book tally

[AdamZ]

Is it permissible to white out an incorrect log book total and write in the correct number over the white out? Error is at the bottom of the page where all hours have been totaled not for a specific flight.

 

[Henning]

Is it permissible to white out an incorrect log book total and write in the correct number over the white out? Error is at the bottom of the page where all hours have been totaled not for a specific flight.

No, log book corrections should get a single strike through only.

 

[timwinters]

Hmmmm...I think:

It's your logbook, you can do what you want...as long as it doesn't change anything that's required for currency no one should care.

Also, since it was just the totals it'd be pretty easy to explain/justify since none of the the individual page entries have changed.

But all of that makes too much sense for it to be true. :wink2:

 

[Henning]

Hmmmm...I think:

It's your logbook, you can do what you want...as long as it doesn't change anything that's required for currency no one should care.

Also, since it was just the totals it'd be pretty easy to explain/justify since none of the the individual page entries have changed.

But all of that makes too much sense for it to be true. :wink2:

Yes, because as well as your record, it's an "Official Record" and you should use general official record keeping protocols on it. Would it ever cause a problem? No, and impermissible is probably too strong of a term, but you would not be following the preferred protocol by using white out. General accepted protocol is a single line and initials.

 

[frfly172]

I was told you should just strike out the entry with a single line so that you can see what the correction is for.

 

[Henning]

I was told you should just strike out the entry with a single line so that you can see what the correction is for.

Exactly, it's so whomever is reviewing it doesn't have to ask you questions if you aren't available, everything is in plain view.

 

[James331]

One line through it, corrected time, initial, done.

 

[Lindberg]

I write the totals in pencil, since that's where I'm most likely to screw up. Corrections are made with an eraser. I'm sure that's not "permissible," but no one's called me on it yet.

 

[Henning]

I write the totals in pencil, since that's where I'm most likely to screw up. Corrections are made with an eraser. I'm sure that's not "permissible," but no one's called me on it yet.

It's fine, although when you finish a page and confirm the totals on it, you should ink over the finals.

 

[MAKG1]

Is it permissible to white out an incorrect log book total and write in the correct number over the white out? Error is at the bottom of the page where all hours have been totaled not for a specific flight.

Permissible, yes. Advisible, no. I know of at least one guy who blew a private pilot check ride because his logbook was illegible.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

I just put it as a logbook entry on the next time and in the remarks put "logbook correction". Different strokes for different folks.

 

[woodchucker]

Before my PPL checkride I found an error in my logbook. Forgot to enter day vfr hours for one flight, and had to adjust that column total. Added the hours in, highlighted in yellow so the omission stood out, one-lined out the incorrect column totals and put in the correction. DPE didn't even pause when going over it.

 

[acrophile]

Another good reason to use an electronic logbook rather than an archaic paper one.

 

[MAKG1]

Another good reason to use an electronic logbook rather than an archaic paper one.

Actually, it is exactly the opposite. Keeping a record of changes is required in other contexts, and it's a good idea here. Never seen an electronic aviation logbook do that. None of them have audit trails.

God help you if your electronic logbook suffers an "upgrade" that makes it useless on your device, or if the company goes TU. you have way too much faith in modern software practices.

 

[James331]

Yeah, digital logs do help eliminate the math errors.

But for a student pilot, or someone working on IFR or something where a CFI is constantly writing in your log, paper is still preferred.

 

[DFH65]

Hmmm, Never really thought about it I have made several corrections in whiteout in my logbook. I figure I sign the bottom of each page verifying that all of the above entries on that page are correct. Not really planning on any other ratings that require certain times so not overly worried about it. I also have every receipt from paying for rentals since I began flying originally I wanted to track the total cost of getting my private but just have always kept them so could certainly prove the hours that way if I had to.

I know guys who just have a small notebook and they keep them all in pencil.

I do keep an excel spreadsheet to track time when I am not officially logging it for example flying with other people in airplanes I might not have the ratings for like about 10 or 15 minutes right seat in a DC3, or a half an hour in a friends twin....

 

[acrophile]

Actually, it is exactly the opposite. Keeping a record of changes is required in other contexts, and it's a good idea here. Never seen an electronic aviation logbook do that. None of them have audit trails.

God help you if your electronic logbook suffers an "upgrade" that makes it useless on your device, or if the company goes TU. you have way too much faith in modern software practices.

Just use your own spreadsheet or database. And keep backups of old copies. (I don't bother with full-fledged audit trails, but paper logbooks don't have those either.)

 

[timwinters]

I write the totals in pencil, since that's where I'm most likely to screw up. Corrections are made with an eraser. I'm sure that's not "permissible," but no one's called me on it yet.

I do exactly the same. Individual entries are in ink, calculated totals at the bottom of each page are in pencil.

 

[acrophile]

Yeah, digital logs do help eliminate the math errors.

But for a student pilot, or someone working on IFR or something where a CFI is constantly writing in your log, paper is still preferred.

I ask CFIs (and DPEs) to write out an entry on paper, which I then type into my logbook, scanning any signatures. It's never been a problem.

 

[James331]

I ask CFIs (and DPEs) to write out an entry on paper, which I then type into my logbook, scanning any signatures. It's never been a problem.

Yeah, that's what I do in my log, which is cool for a BFR or a glider add on or something, but if you're doing primary training or IFR, it's just a pain in the butt, I also like to flip through and see my past comments, also for a student who NEEDS their logbook on them, I feel better when it's ink and paper.

 

[flyingron]

The totals aren't an official record.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It's fine, although when you finish a page and confirm the totals on it, you should ink over the finals.

Why not leave them in pencil?

I haven't run totals in my paper logbook at all for almost 10 years, except when specifically requested - that happened once when I was getting checked out for a rental away from home. I ran the totals through the last flight on the last full page and wrote them in pencil.

Did I do something wrong?

 

[Henning]

Why not leave them in pencil?

I haven't run totals in my paper logbook at all for almost 10 years, except when specifically requested - that happened once when I was getting checked out for a rental away from home. I ran the totals through the last flight on the last full page and wrote them in pencil.

Did I do something wrong?

More for permanence of legibility than anything else. 99.95% of the time, none of this stuff makes any difference at all, and the other .049% it'll cause you a slight hassle, .001% of the time it might cost you a job. That's all, you'll never lose your ticket or take a rip for it.

 

[Van Johnston]

That's exactly what my CFI did before my PPL checkride. Was not an issue w/ the DPE. That was 1987, FWIW.

 

[poadeleted20]

No, log book corrections should get a single strike through only.

Agreed. Write the new number above the lined-out one, initial, and date. Not specifically stated in any regulation, but it's the generally accepted practice for correcting legal documents like a pilot logbook.

 

[poadeleted20]

Actually, it is exactly the opposite. Keeping a record of changes is required in other contexts, and it's a good idea here. Never seen an electronic aviation logbook do that. None of them have audit trails.

ZuluLog is the only one of which I am aware which is certified to meet FAA standards for keeping track of alterations after an entry is made and preventing alterations to entries e-signed by an instructor or other third party.

 

[Henning]

ZuluLog is the only one of which I am aware which is certified to meet FAA standards for keeping track of alterations after an entry is made and preventing alterations to entries e-signed by an instructor or other third party.

Huh, good to know. I wish one of them would come out with an OCR/scan app function that would automatically scan paper pages into a workable database.

 

[jesse]

Yeah, that's what I do in my log, which is cool for a BFR or a glider add on or something, but if you're doing primary training or IFR, it's just a pain in the butt, I also like to flip through and see my past comments, also for a student who NEEDS their logbook on them, I feel better when it's ink and paper.

I do all my logbook entries digitally then print out stickers that have the same column format and look of my paper logbook and stick them in the paper logbook one page at a time.

In the rare even that I need someone to sign something in my logbook, then I stick a sticker in the logbook that is blank but has all the columns and whatnot. That page is then done in pen and the next is back to laser printed stickers.

It actually looks pretty nice.

 

[Zeldman]

I not only use pencil, but I use a spiral notebook for a logbook. And since I am left handed, I use a left handed spiral notebook.

Never had a problem except once. During an interview process (121 operation no less) a person told me that the FAA would not accept a spiral notebook for a logbook. I reminded that person that the FAA doesn't require a logbook except for time needed to advance ratings or currency. And those times can be recorded on a paper poke. That person told me he would check with the FAA. Whoever he talked to told him I had an excellent logbook. Then suggested that I should sign each page in ink, which is what I do now.

I did discover a mistake in my addition once. I just went to the next line, wrote logbook time correction in the comments section and put down the new total and went on from there.

 

[Henning]

I not only use pencil, but I use a spiral notebook for a logbook. And since I am left handed, I use a left handed spiral notebook.

Never had a problem except once. During an interview process (121 operation no less) a person told me that the FAA would not accept a spiral notebook for a logbook. I reminded that person that the FAA doesn't require a logbook except for time needed to advance ratings or currency. And those times can be recorded on a paper poke. That person told me he would check with the FAA. Whoever he talked to told him I had an excellent logbook. Then suggested that I should sign each page in ink, which is what I do now.

I did discover a mistake in my addition once. I just went to the next line, wrote logbook time correction in the comments section and put down the new total and went on from there.

Yep, so long as the required information is duly recorded, the requirements are met. Everything else is about getting work.

 

[tinerj]

I am now at the point of being all I am ever going to be so it doesn't matter.

But marking through neatly is quicker and easier than white out.

 

[midlifeflyer]

ZuluLog is the only one of which I am aware which is certified to meet FAA standards for keeping track of alterations after an entry is made and preventing alterations to entries e-signed by an instructor or other third party.

I wasn't even aware the FAA "certified" logbooks! Got the FAA Order or AC that describes the logbook certification process? Do they actually have a certificate signed by the Administrator or their POI in charge of logbook certification? I've looked at the site and didn't see anything about its formal certification - not even in their Wiki. You'd think they'd be broadcasting that in large moving font!

 

[Henning]

I wasn't even aware the FAA "certified" logbooks! Got the FAA Order or AC that describes the logbook certification process? Do they actually have a certificate signed by the Administrator or their POI in charge of logbook certification? I've looked at the site and didn't see anything about its formal certification - not even in their Wiki. You'd think they'd be broadcasting that in large moving font!

I think he's talking about software certified to standards of accounting and recording integrity that produces a government defined forensic standard of recording changes from conception. I know that standard exists because we had to swap some vessel logging software once to comply with USCG requirements.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I think he's talking about software certified to standards of accounting and recording integrity that produces a government defined forensic standard of recording changes from conception. I know that standard exists because we had to swap some vessel logging software once to comply with USCG requirements.

In which case I'd still be looking for some certification by a recognized authority. I didn't see anything on that on the ZuluLog site either.

 

[Cykoguy]

Day before my VFR check ride we realized there was an addition mistake early on that messed up all of the totals for several pages. CFI and I used white out and re-wrote. Examiner had no issue and I passed.

 

[Henning]

In which case I'd still be looking for some certification by a recognized authority. I didn't see anything on that on the ZuluLog site either.

IIRC it's also listed as an ISO 900x substandard or something like that because it was during that compliance I ran into the whole issue, there was some logging software that met the ISO standard but not the Govt standard, and a subset that met both standards. Luckily I didn't have to deal with that whole mess since.

As far as pilot logs go, I doubt there is a required standard to meet, however when it comes to air carrier maintenance records, I would bet they are more critical in what software the carrier uses.

 

[mkosmo]

ZuluLog is the only one of which I am aware which is certified to meet FAA standards for keeping track of alterations after an entry is made and preventing alterations to entries e-signed by an instructor or other third party.

Myflightbook also keeps track of signed entries by means of checksum and invalidates signatures if they're modified after being signed. There is no FAA certification for e-logbooks, just AC 120-78.

 

[midlifeflyer]

IIRC it's also listed as an ISO 900x substandard or something like that because it was during that compliance I ran into the whole issue, there was some logging software that met the ISO standard but not the Govt standard, and a subset that met both standards. Luckily I didn't have to deal with that whole mess since.

As far as pilot logs go, I doubt there is a required standard to meet, however when it comes to air carrier maintenance records, I would bet they are more critical in what software the carrier uses.

Agreed. In the pilot log situation, I don't see too many issues coming up (other than the general "what is a signature?") unless an entry is questioned for some reason. Just as it would with paper records.

 

[poadeleted20]

I wasn't even aware the FAA "certified" logbooks!

They do not certify logbooks, but they do have a process for accepting the use of electronic signatures and recordkeeping. Note that 14 CFR 61.51 requires that your pilot logbook be kept "in a manner acceptable to the Administrator".

Got the FAA Order or AC that describes the logbook certification process?

No such animal, but AC 120-78 covers "Acceptance and Use of Electronic Signatures, Electronic Recordkeeping Systems, and Electronic Manuals", which provides the means to get the Administrator to accept the manner in which you use electronic signatures and recordkeeping.

Do they actually have a certificate signed by the Administrator or their POI in charge of logbook certification? I've looked at the site and didn't see anything about its formal certification - not even in their Wiki. You'd think they'd be broadcasting that in large moving font!

I believe their web site discusses their compliance with AC 120-78.

 

[poadeleted20]

Myflightbook also keeps track of signed entries by means of checksum and invalidates signatures if they're modified after being signed. There is no FAA certification for e-logbooks, just AC 120-78.

I was not aware that there was another AC 120-78-compliant pilot logbook system -- thanks.