Inadvertent ice encounter

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Oppsice

Guest
Was flying along 3000 above the clouds today on a long cross country. Clouds were low for the first half of the trip but they began to creep up on me and it became clear I was not going to be able to stay on top any longer. It was getting bumpy so I asked for a decent. During the decent I started to pick up ice pretty fast so I noticed the controller and pushed a fast decent to get out of it as quickly as possible. The ice stopped as quick as it came and soon i was flying along…. Gave the pirep and that was that… my question is. Will this come back to bite me with the faa? What are the chances I hear from some FASO inspector about this? There was no icing airmet and I didn’t see any reason to think there would be ice in my preflight planing but I also didn’t get an official weather brief…
 
Were you VFR? Otherwise I dunno why you’d hear from an inspector.
 
No IFR. I’m worried about hearing from the FSDO because the icing was accumulating pretty fast so I got the decent going it about 2000 ft per minute. Nothing dangerous speed wise just made a quick decent and let the controller know I was going to go down to the new altitude rapidly. Just worried some inspector is going to try and say it was known and you should have done a better preflight etc…
 
Nah I’ve picked up inadvertent ice a few years back in a 172. Was not forecasted at all and as I was picking it up it got sketch. ATC asked why I stopped climbing at a good rate. I said well I’m picking up ice. Tops weren’t far off they said so I limped it up. Nothing more was ever said and flight obviously continued and finished fine. You’re okay.
 
I've had similar under ifr many times and not had any issues with the FAA.
 
I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Good job by the way.
 
Did you fly into known icing conditions, then they may want to take to you, otherwise why would they want to?
"Known icing conditions" involve instead circumstances where a reasonable pilot would expect a substantial likelihood of ice formation on the aircraft based upon all information available to that pilot
 
I’m not sure how that stuff works but I think someone needs to make a complaint for anyone to check, whether that’s ATC or a fellow airmen or a noisy Karen down below.

You got into icing, obviously you aren’t trying to do that on purpose, you aren’t flying part 121 or part 135, so the risk is yourself and not the flying public (per say). If someone complained, screw them, you did a good job by identifying a situation, communicating it, and successfully getting out of it. You did your job. Congrats!
 
Did you violate a rule of some kind? Not that I can see from your description...I've encountered ice a few times, and I one time couldn't get a word in because ATC was busy, so I started a descent and let them know why when THEY noticed...didn't hear from the FAA that time either. As said above, someone would have to notify the FAA first....in your case, who would make the complaint?
 
File a nasa, but atc is probably just glad you are safe. They ain’t out there trying to get ya. Maybe next time don’t fly above visible moisture in freezing temperatures to err on the safe side.
 
If it makes you more comfortable file a NASA report. I wouldn’t worry about it,you didn’t plan to fly into known icing conditions.
 
NASA report was defiantly filed. The only person who might report would be the controller but sounds like that’s not likely. My main concern is that an inspector could say I violated 91.103 because I didn’t make myself aware of all information as I did not get a preflight brief. I incorrectly thought I could stay above it. I was really sure that would be the case when I took off. I was wrong lesson learned. Another lesson learned is that ice, building fast, when it’s getting dark outside…. Is scary as f***. I have a whole new respect for ice. Not that i didn’t before but now even more. One more lesson to add to my stack of lessons learned. I’m just going to make sure this makes me a better pilot. I’ve said it before that stick and rudder is the easy part of flying. It’s the decisions we make that are hard and the only reason those are hard is because of our own biases and motivations.
 
Oppsice said:
Another lesson learned is that ice, building fast, when it’s getting dark outside…. Is scary as
Click to expand...

I have also learned that when ice starts accumulating, the heater starts working so much better. I mean it must be the heater because I start sweating...

There were a few times in Alaska flying the 207 when I was able to hold airspeed or I was able to hold altitude, but not both at the same time. This was due to ice. The 207 will carry a scary amount of ice.

One trick that I was taught is to take pair of gloves and interlock the fingers and place over the defrost directing the heat to one small part of the wind screen. This will keep a very small spot warm and ice free in case the wind screen ices over. Yes, I have landed a number of times with only that small spot to look through.

All due to inadvertent and unforecast icing, of course... ;)
 
Oppsice said:
Was flying along 3000 above the clouds today on a long cross country. Clouds were low for the first half of the trip but they began to creep up on me and it became clear I was not going to be able to stay on top any longer. It was getting bumpy so I asked for a decent. During the decent I started to pick up ice pretty fast so I noticed the controller and pushed a fast decent to get out of it as quickly as possible. The ice stopped as quick as it came and soon i was flying along…. Gave the pirep and that was that… my question is. Will this come back to bite me with the faa? What are the chances I hear from some FASO inspector about this? There was no icing airmet and I didn’t see any reason to think there would be ice in my preflight planing but I also didn’t get an official weather brief…
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I've been in that situation and it was far more harrowing than yours was. Icing was not expected at my destination. I asked for and was cleared to fly at an (IFR) altitude wrong for my direction but that was between cloud layers to the ice could dissipate. I then did a dive bomb on final descent to punch through a potential ice layer, leading to an unusual attitude recovery in IMC, terminating in an obviously successful approach and landing (I'm here to write about it, right?) Never heard from anyone.

Planning wise, I did everything right. Dive bombing was a bad move but I doubt ATC even noticed. After that, if I had to address icing even on a planning level, it was an automatic flight scrub.
 
Oppsice said:
NASA report was defiantly filed. The only person who might report would be the controller but sounds like that’s not likely. My main concern is that an inspector could say I violated 91.103 because I didn’t make myself aware of all information as I did not get a preflight brief. I incorrectly thought I could stay above it. I was really sure that would be the case when I took off. I was wrong lesson learned. Another lesson learned is that ice, building fast, when it’s getting dark outside…. Is scary as f***. I have a whole new respect for ice. Not that i didn’t before but now even more. One more lesson to add to my stack of lessons learned. I’m just going to make sure this makes me a better pilot. I’ve said it before that stick and rudder is the easy part of flying. It’s the decisions we make that are hard and the only reason those are hard is because of our own biases and motivations.
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Not to be a dick, but if you didn’t get a weather briefing, how’d you know it was not known? An AIRMET or .signet for icing is a forecasted situation. A pilot report is known. Did you check pilot reports prior to flight? Based upon your admission of not getting a preflight briefing, probably not. Hhhmmm?

All that said, good job of recognizing the situation and taking effective counter measures!
 
I said I didn’t get a weather brief not that I didn’t look at the weather at all. There was not much to make me think there was an ice, no airmets, sigmets, or pireps (until just before then there was a pirep but by then I was already stuck with flying into it). but lacking an official briefing would make that impossible for me to prove right…. If anyone came looking into it.
 
This is branching off into a tangent topic.
I haven't called for a weather briefing in years. There isn't a definition of legal weather briefing is there? Isn't it just mandatory the pilot obtain all available relevant information pertinent for the flight?
 
FORANE said:
This is branching off into a tangent topic.
I haven't called for a weather briefing in years. There isn't a definition of legal weather briefing is there? Isn't it just mandatory the pilot obtain all available relevant information pertinent for the flight?
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91.103 says for a flight under IFR or not in the vicinity of an airport, "weather reports and forecasts...." I have always believed it is best to get a briefing or self-brief where there is a record of your tail number. There are a lot of ways to do that without actually calling for a briefing.

I think if there is a weather-related incident or accident, the first thing the FAA and the insurance company will ask is whether the pilot got a briefing, so it's better if there is a record of it.
 
.....maybe the best in adavance tool- the SkewT-logP National Weather service tool, for "vertical briefing". rucsoundings.noaa.gov
Good bet that from 2100 to 4400 msl there's ice in that cloud....and that's an hour and a half from now.....
1702394670916.png
 
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Key word in the Skew T
bbchien said:
.....maybe the best in adavance tool- the SkewT-logP National Weather service tool, for "vertical briefing". rucsoundings.noaa.gov
Good bet that from 2100 to 4400 msl there's ice in that cloud....and that's an hour and a half from now.....
View attachment 123207
Click to expand...
Key word in the above is FORECAST. This does not constitute KNOWN. But you are correct, probably ice in them their clouds. I would then check for Pireps. If there are then it is KNOWN. IF there are no PIREPS, and then once airborne and you encountered, it is KNOWN. GET OUT. Only time this will matter is if there is an incident. FAA will check to see if you got an official weather briefing. I self brief via Foreflight, but also go to 1800WXBrief on line and down load an official brief to cover myself as well.
 
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