In the very early process of picking a plane....

GBSoren

GBSoren

Pre-takeoff checklist
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GBSoren
I've been lurking on this site a while and have enjoyed reading post from people with far more knowledge than me. So, I'm ealy in my PPL training, I have ~6 hrs of flight time in a C172. I check out a couple sites looking at used planes and have a few that I like, some affordable and some not as much, especially for a low hr pilot!

My mission 90% of the time will be; Flying VFR ~200nm, we have a cabin in northern MN and we live in southern MN (5.5 hr driving), there are 3 airports within 30 miles of our cabin, the closest being about 15 miles, all with paved runways of at least 3500'. Payload will be myself 240#, wife 120#, 16yr old son 150# and golden retriever 80#. We seldom bring any luggage, everything we need is already there. We'd leave a vehicle at the airport, we have more vehicles than drivers anyway.

Because this would be my first plane and I'll be low hrs I'd like to keep it simple; fixed gear, under 200hp, but would like it to be something I can build time in to eventually get to IFR.

Budget is flexible, I could probably do up to $150k, but would rather start at something much less and eventually upgrade to the $150k range.

The contenders, mostly planes I like or I can get into cheap (I'm usually not cheap!).

60's something Piper Commanche 180, I can get 50% share for ~$11k, free hanger at grass strip. Higher hrs, motor about timed out and outdated electronics. I hate the single door!

Socata TB-10, can find for under $50k
Socata TB-200, ~$85k
Diamond DA-40 (personal favorite but maybe more the eventual upgrade)
Cirrus SR20 (also high end and higher ins cost)
Gumman Tiger

Open to other suggestions.


p.s. because I'd usually be spending 3-5 days gone it makes renting very difficult, besides I hate spending money on something I don't own.
 
Welcome and good luck with you training and Plane search.
 
GBSoren said:
I've been lurking on this site a while and have enjoyed reading post from people with far more knowledge than me. So, I'm ealy in my PPL training, I have ~6 hrs of flight time in a C172. I check out a couple sites looking at used planes and have a few that I like, some affordable and some not as much, especially for a low hr pilot!

My mission 90% of the time will be; Flying VFR ~200nm, we have a cabin in northern MN and we live in southern MN (5.5 hr driving), there are 3 airports within 30 miles of our cabin, the closest being about 15 miles, all with paved runways of at least 3500'. Payload will be myself 240#, wife 120#, 16yr old son 150# and golden retriever 80#. We seldom bring any luggage, everything we need is already there. We'd leave a vehicle at the airport, we have more vehicles than drivers anyway.

Because this would be my first plane and I'll be low hrs I'd like to keep it simple; fixed gear, under 200hp, but would like it to be something I can build time in to eventually get to IFR.

Budget is flexible, I could probably do up to $150k, but would rather start at something much less and eventually upgrade to the $150k range.

The contenders, mostly planes I like or I can get into cheap (I'm usually not cheap!).

60's something Piper Commanche 180, I can get 50% share for ~$11k, free hanger at grass strip. Higher hrs, motor about timed out and outdated electronics. I hate the single door!

Socata TB-10, can find for under $50k
Socata TB-200, ~$85k
Diamond DA-40 (personal favorite but maybe more the eventual upgrade)
Cirrus SR20 (also high end and higher ins cost)
Gumman Tiger

Open to other suggestions.


p.s. because I'd usually be spending 3-5 days gone it makes renting very difficult, besides I hate spending money on something I don't own.
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Cessna 182 would be a great option for your mission. Tons available below 100K.
 
Haven't flown one, but before I ended up buying my PA28-180C I looked hard at Grumman's as well. The canopy is a nice feature and they have some definite pros.

I'm sure the Mooney folks will be around shortly to steer you that way :)
 
Depending on the area around your cabin and how far out there it is, and any clearings might be able to land door front in a C180 or C185, great cruise speed, hauls a major load and backcountry capable. Maule would also do much of the same.



Out of your list, I've had great luck with Grummans.
 
Welcome,the c182 would meet your current mission. An older diamond would work ,but are still pricey.
 
National forest pretty much all around our cabin, no chance for even a short landing strip. Float plane wouold be an option, but because the airports are so close and we'd probably run into town for groceries and such anyway so more practical to just land at the airport.
 
evapilotaz said:
Have you factor in the cost of ownership? Its not like handing the FBO the Keys when something breaks.
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Yes I have...kind of, insurance worries me. I know I don't want to buy something that I have to do a bunch of upgrades on, I know that electronics are crazy expensive! Hanger space here is REALLY cheap...as in free if I don't mind using a grass strip. Even at the local airports it's cheap.

Like I said renting is not easy when you aren't coming home for 5 days, plus rental options are limited.
 
GBSoren said:
Yes I have...kind of, insurance worries me. I know I don't want to buy something that I have to do a bunch of upgrades on, I know that electronics are crazy expensive! Hanger space here is REALLY cheap...as in free if I don't mind using a grass strip. Even at the local airports it's cheap.

Like I said renting is not easy when you aren't coming home for 5 days, plus rental options are limited.
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Insurance is the EASY part of airplane ownership. It is a fixed rate - you can easily budget for it. Relatively low percentage of the annual budget and it typically goes down a little the more you fly.

Where insurance can be a pain is when you start looking at high end airplanes $200k and up hull value.
 
Fearless Tower said:
How well do Cirrus or Diamonds do on grass?
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I don't know, but if/when I go higher $ plane I'd probably keep it at an airport with a hard strip anyway. Like I said, here hanger rents are very cheap compared to other parts of the country.
 
seems like there are a lot of options in your price range. dang, if 150 was my range I'd have a plane already, most likely a sweet J.
 
GBSoren said:
p.s. because I'd usually be spending 3-5 days gone it makes renting very difficult, besides I hate spending money on something I don't own.
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Ha! Think how much [more] you're going to hate spending money on something you do own! :lol:

You should budget (or be able to write a check) for a new engine or large 4-figure repair item the day you sign the registration paperwork.

The days away make owning a good option. I couldn't stand the scheduling (waiting for someone to bring the plane back, usually late) and then having to watch the clock on returning it. Less than favorable weather during the "slot" meant cancelling since the plane was booked afterwards.
 
Echo the C182. You are already are training in its little brother.
 
+1 for the C182P or Q for your needs/missions. For the distance, loading, speed needs, and budget, it is a good fit.

As stated, there are many on the market for $100k or less.

Transition training from the 172 will be minimal. Just a few hours to obtain your HP endorsement and get used to the handling/landing characteristics.

It's a good first airplane for you. And later, if you want something "more", it keeps its resale value well.
 
You're already pushing the W&B envelope on the DA-40 (its useful load is between 850 and 910 lbs depending on model and configuration). If your family gains a few pounds you may have to leave one of them at home (or take less than full fuel)...
 
Another vote for C-182. I total up 590# before fuel and any luggage (I read your post, but sometimes you'll want to bring something.) That's close on a C-172.

John
 
I would second a C-182 for your mission and budget. For the planes you listed, I would vote for the Grumann.
 
I agree with others. Cessna 182, however I would be looking at an RG model personally. Wish I had gone that route to get through my commercial rating. "Dang retractable gear requirements"

BTW.. Good luck with your training! Stick with it!!
 
Even if you don't use it for floats or backcountry, a C180 will out preform and outrun a 182, just a thought.
 
JasonM said:
I agree with others. Cessna 182, however I would be looking at an RG model personally. !
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Landing on grass? those legs look mighty spindly, but no personal experience.
 
I would vote for the 182 as well. I trained in a 172 and bought an older model 182 a year ago and love it. The transition from the 172 was cake, and I think the 182 is easier to fly. it's also a great platform fro IFR training. And with your budget you could get a nice 182. I opted out of the partnership route, because I want 100% decision making authority with my airplane as to when and where I fly and for how long. Best of luck
 
I fly a 78 Piper Archer II. I could carry your load with full fuel tanks and still be 125# below my max weight. That said, if you're putting the dog in a crate you may be hard pressed to find enough space for everything. 200nm flight is no problem, I frequently go over 300.

A lot of these guys are steering you into slightly larger 6cyl aircraft and they're not wrong. I'm frequently thinking of upgrades just to get a little more room, a little more speed, etc. Sometimes I think, boy if I had a little bit bigger airplane I'd invite all the guys to come along and go to _______. Then again, for the extra $20-50k of airplane, 20-50% more fuel burn, etc I could just buy them all airline tickets every year and be way ahead. The sky isn't the limit in aviation, your wallet is.

Mid-late 70s Archer IIs are IMO in the sweet spot on value. You can find cheaper, you can find faster, you can find better useful loads, lower fuel burns, etc.. but you'll be hard pressed to find all of that at once and in something so easy to fly.

Whatever you go with, make sure to get the actual weight of the airplane before committing to buy. It's amazing how much weight difference there is between some aircraft.
 
Caramon13 said:
I'm sure the Mooney folks will be around shortly to steer you that way :)
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too much meat on board for my mooney.
182 or a 210 would get my vote. Comanche, archer, lance/toga, I mean almost anything will do the mission just fine.
 
I would think a Bonanza...... or a King Air would work for you.









....





Actually, the suggestions on a 182 are pretty good. You can find lots of nice versions for under $50k for a nice machine with mid-time engine, good radios, and a reasonable interior and paint..

Between $50k and $75k, you should be able to get one with every upgrade you might consider already installed.
 
paflyer said:
Landing on grass? those legs look mighty spindly, but no personal experience.
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I know a few guys with them. that is no problem, however.. When did the OP say he was landing on grass? His initial post says "there are 3 airports within 30 miles of our cabin, the closest being about 15 miles, all with paved runways of at least 3500'."
 
He said he had a free hanger on a grass strip at home.
 
Is the cabin on a lake, in the land of 10,000 lakes?

If so look for an amphibious aircraft either a Lake LA-4-200, or a 180/182/185 on anphib's. and skis.

Ski's in the winter, land on the lake at the cabin and on the snowy grass at home .Summers in the lake, and on wheels at the home field.
 
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Tom-D said:
Is the cabin on a lake, in the land of 10,000 lakes?

If so look for an amphibious aircraft either a Lake LA-4-200, or a 180/182/185 on anphib's. and skis.

Ski's in the winter, land on the lake at the cabin and on the snowy grass at home .Summers in the lake, and on wheels at the home field.
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Here's a question.....has anyone priced seaplane insurance for someone with a wet ASES rating? How affordable is it?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Here's a question.....has anyone priced seaplane insurance for someone with a wet ASES rating? How affordable is it?
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I hear it isn't affordable. That's one of the reasons I want to keep it simple for now.

I appreciate all the advise, and I know the 182 is a very capable and well thought of aircraft. Why is it that you can find an early 2000's SR22 for around $155k but the same age 182's go for closer to $200?
 
The reason I don't recommend a Cirrus as within weeks of getting my PPL I bought my first plane - Cirrus SR20. Awesome plane. I flew about 350 hours on it. Then the local Cirrus rep let me fly a SR22... I was sold. I had the 20 up for sale and the 22 about 4 months later..

The SR20 I got was about 100K - well within your price range. The SR22 was significantly higher... it's an addiction. Now I want to move up to turbine. It never ends....

Whatever you do - budget more money for flying. It never ends, but I'm sure I speak for most that we love every minute of it!
 
172andyou said:
Cessna 182 would be a great option for your mission. Tons available below 100K.
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Concur with this. So many options with a 182 and simplest and arguably the most cost-effective airplane to own in its 'class' (here defined as 200 to 250 hp 4-place, constant speed prop). Many are equipped with realistic IFR gear too. I'm imagining your son wanting to bring a friend once in a while or you wanting to bring two other grown-ups along. The 182 can do that easily as a 200 nm trip wouldn't require anything close to full fuel.

The 182 (or T182) is also backcountry capable if you ever get into that or find someone to let you use their private strip that's closer to your cabin, etc. Heck you could even put floats under a 182.

Airplane shopping is fun work.

Best of luck with training! :D
 
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The DA-40 is great, but weight-limited. You're on the ragged edge for my airplane (740lb useful); should anyone gain weight you're hosed. It will do fine on well-kept grass, but you need to be careful.

I'd vote for a 182 as well.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Here's a question.....has anyone priced seaplane insurance for someone with a wet ASES rating? How affordable is it?
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It's WAAAY worse than a straight float plane, it's a amphib, put the gear down for landing by habit, touch water and the insurance co is going to take it hard.


Wet SES, low time, I'd wager north of $6,000 a year if he really looks hard, presuming they are even willing to issue.


That said there is a reason folks pay it, fly a amphib and it will make you look differently at lowly straight SEL and even SES planes.
 
I would also agree that a Cessna 182 with fixed gear would be a good choice for your first airplane given your circumstances. It is a very good instrument platform as far as stability goes. Avionics is another matter as there are a lot of choices. I'm sure you could find one with a nice avionics package considering your budget.

What ever you decide to buy make sure you get a good pre purchase inspection performed by some one with a high degree of knowledge on the particular airplane you are planning to buy. Make sure this person has no affiliation with the seller so their loyalty is to you only. Unfortunately I learned this lesson the hard way on my first airplane.

Best wishes on your quest to find the right airplane.

Jean
 
I'm a big cirrus fan, but in your situation a 182 would probably fit the bill.
 
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