In-flight cellphone use

[denverpilot]

That is incorrect. The proposed airborne phone use is not using the ground-based cellular network. It is using a picocell installed in the airplane and a non-cellular air-ground link from the airplane to the ground and/or satellite. The airborne picocell prevents phones in the airplane, which still must be in airplane mode when below 10,000', from attempting to connect to ground-based cells which would cause the interference already discussed.

No it's not incorrect. FCC is well down the path of not giving a flying (ahem) about what people do with cell phones in flight.

All the rest of that you posted is what OTHER people are thinking about and planning. Not FCC. They don't care.

They do, unlike older analog systems, once the phone is at a high enough altitude. That is why service drops off at a much lower altitude than it did on the analog systems. The problem continues to exist when a call is made at lower altitudes.

Exactly. The network takes care of itself now. The variables that trigger a phone to shut down are not public, but if you're high enough you're causing a problem, your phone is simply told to stop transmitting.

My post had absolutely no commentary on what people are planning to do once the law is removed. Nor do I care. My point was that the OWT of cell phones "blocking" the network hasn't been true for at least two decades on properly engineered networks. The carriers have been able to shut down individual phones for a long time.

 

[Wheels]

That is incorrect. The proposed airborne phone use is not using the ground-based cellular network. It is using a picocell installed in the airplane and a non-cellular air-ground link from the airplane to the ground and/or satellite. The airborne picocell prevents phones in the airplane, which still must be in airplane mode when below 10,000', from attempting to connect to ground-based cells which would cause the interference already discussed.

No it's not incorrect. FCC is well down the path of not giving a flying (ahem) about what people do with cell phones in flight.

All the rest of that you posted is what OTHER people are thinking about and planning. Not FCC. They don't care.

Have you read the FCC's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking? They are proposing exactly what Larry said, cellphones will be allowed on airliners above 10,000' using a picocell. The FCC is not proposing to remove all rules against using cellphones in flight.
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...-to-mobile-wireless-services-onboard-aircraft

 

[JHW]

I've posted this before, but sometimes they work pretty high up. In this case I noticed I'd accidentally left cell turned on (usually off to avoid draining my battery) because foreflight was updating the weather.

 

[TheTraveler]

iPhone5, iPhone6, and my iPad all work fine up to about 10,000'. Higher than that usually means faster also, and they do work, but it's hard to hold onto a signal.

Was up today...Foreflight on the iPad running off wireless, 2 phone calls, a few texts, and one Facetime. Everything worked fine all across Northern Indiana and Southern Michigan.

I should probably note there were two of us in the cockpit. If I was solo, Foreflight would probably be the only thing I'd be running unless it was really important.

If I leave my phone on riding commercial, it usually just drains the battery because the signal goes away eventually and doesn't come back until we land. Except for Greenland. If I leave my phone on, every time I'm coming or going from Europe, I get a signal for about 30 minutes over Greenland. Odd.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I have been through this several times.....

I live 2 miles from the Grand Tetons,, they are 13,700 msl.... People stand on top of them and make calls hundreds of times a day....

My plane in based at Jackson Hole Airport, 2.5 miles away and I fly right next to the Tetons daily.. Usually 3-4000 feet lower then the peaks of the mountains....

Why would the FCC allow people at 13,700msl to make calls and a guy in a plane at 9000 msl can't ???.....[/QUOTE]

Uh... Maybe because they are in an airplane?

 

[Clark1961]

I have been through this several times.....

I live 2 miles from the Grand Tetons,, they are 13,700 msl.... People stand on top of them and make calls hundreds of times a day....

My plane in based at Jackson Hole Airport, 2.5 miles away and I fly right next to the Tetons daily.. Usually 3-4000 feet lower then the peaks of the mountains....

Why would the FCC allow people at 13,700msl to make calls and a guy in a plane at 9000 msl can't ???.....[/QUOTE]

Uh... Maybe because they are in an airplane?

You sir, are perfectly equipped to be a civil servant.

 

[denverpilot]

Have you read the FCC's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking? They are proposing exactly what Larry said, cellphones will be allowed on airliners above 10,000' using a picocell. The FCC is not proposing to remove all rules against using cellphones in flight.

https://www.federalregister.gov/art...-to-mobile-wireless-services-onboard-aircraft

I have.

The "expansion" rule making doesn't cover the cancellation of the now-outdated 800 MHz rule. That WILL happen.

They have no plans to keep that rule, and it doesn't cover anything that can't transmit on 800 MHz.

As written, the law TODAY from FCC doesn't ban anything but 800 MHz operation. If you can guarantee your device won't use that band, you can legally turn it on anywhere in the sky that FAA rules don't cover.

The problem in the past has been, the end user couldn't control the band used.

Numerous public safety agencies have already legally, and with complete blessing from FCC, had carriers lock out the restricted band, on data sticks. Then they got similar blessing from said carrier, Many have/are using them while airborne. Technically they didn't even need to ask FCC. Just the carrier.

Similar requests from non-government businesses have largely been ignored or denied by carriers, but it has nothing to do with existing regulations from FCC. The carriers just don't feel like it. They want a much more profitable solution.

They're making good money on in-flight wifi, and they don't want the problems associated with loud idiots holding phone conversations in cattle car class. Fights are already breaking out over reclining seats two inches.

They'll likely never do in flight calling. They'd have full beat-downs going on the first time a teenage girl boards and doesn't stop talking the whole flight.

FCC did the NPRM mostly as a publicity stunt for the public, under Congressional pressure. From a purely technical and engineering standpoint, they really don't care, other than near International borders where they're tasked with maintaining band utilization treaties.

Unless air carriers decide to implement a section of the aircraft as "noisy" class, the picocell idea is DoA no matter what FCC or FAA says.

 

[ifly4fun]

I've posted this before, but sometimes they work pretty high up. In this case I noticed I'd accidentally left cell turned on (usually off to avoid draining my battery) because foreflight was updating the weather.

Signal != Working, Your phone may be able to "hear" the tower, doesn't mean the tower can hear you.

 

[rocketflyer84]

The FCC rules about airborne use are mostly in relation to the fact that it messes with the way the cell network works. It's based in reasonable radio engineering issues.

On the ground your phone can see only a limited number of cells at one time and only a few will have strong signal. In the air your phone is sending out signal that can be picked up by many cells across a broad range. The transmission of those cells sites is not focused up into the sky, but they can still pick up signal from your phone looking for cells to connect to. This is why it tends to drain your battery, since the phone starts sending out lots of high intensity signals looking for cells to connect to. Put tons of phones up in the air sending signals out to tons of cell sites and it really starts to mess with the system. That's the logic anyways.

Reality is if you ask GA pilots most will say they either don't bother turning off their phone or just forget to. Using it on the ground though is quite common, especially for picking up clearance at some tiny airport.

 

[X3 Skier]

I think the FCC Rule is to prevent fist fights between passengers in flight.:wink2:

I hope they keep it since most times I sleep while in the metal tube and having some jerk on a phone keeping me awake might result in my eventual arrest.

Cheers

 

[Sundancer]

Used a cell phone fairly routinely at 1,000' AGL; just gave it a try once, to reach State Highway guys about an accident, it worked, so I continued to use it, usually a short duration call. Didn't bother researching FCC regs, one way or the other.

Someone in the business mentioned the network could deal with it, and absent a great deal of noise in the GA community or aviation press about it really being a problem, I didn't worry about it.

 

[petrolero]

necrothread

 

[Scotty78]

iPhone5, iPhone6, and my iPad all work fine up to about 10,000'. Higher than that usually means faster also, and they do work, but it's hard to hold onto a signal.

Was up today...Foreflight on the iPad running off wireless, 2 phone calls, a few texts, and one Facetime. Everything worked fine all across Northern Indiana and Southern Michigan.

I should probably note there were two of us in the cockpit. If I was solo, Foreflight would probably be the only thing I'd be running unless it was really important.

If I leave my phone on riding commercial, it usually just drains the battery because the signal goes away eventually and doesn't come back until we land. Except for Greenland. If I leave my phone on, every time I'm coming or going from Europe, I get a signal for about 30 minutes over Greenland. Odd.

Believe it or not, Greenland has cell service. When I went up there to do some work at Thule Air Base, I took my iPhone so I would have my music. Imagine my surprise when I was in processing to get a text message proclaiming I was on whatever carrier it was, and that international data charges applied and calls were $2.99 a minute
But, there IS coverage there.

 

[ahkahn]

I know a guy who routinely uses his cell phone in flight. Has been able to get decent "talkable" signal up to around 7000'. It's great if there is an expressway underneath, but when you're over the middle of nowhere, not so good.

He says it's a nice way to pass the time away...

Perhaps in an emergency you can dial 911 and call the EMS right to your "put down" spot.

 

[denverpilot]

The FCC rules about airborne use are mostly in relation to the fact that it messes with the way the cell network works. It's based in reasonable radio engineering issues.



On the ground your phone can see only a limited number of cells at one time and only a few will have strong signal. In the air your phone is sending out signal that can be picked up by many cells across a broad range. The transmission of those cells sites is not focused up into the sky, but they can still pick up signal from your phone looking for cells to connect to. This is why it tends to drain your battery, since the phone starts sending out lots of high intensity signals looking for cells to connect to. Put tons of phones up in the air sending signals out to tons of cell sites and it really starts to mess with the system. That's the logic anyways.



Reality is if you ask GA pilots most will say they either don't bother turning off their phone or just forget to. Using it on the ground though is quite common, especially for picking up clearance at some tiny airport.

Ancient outdated information. Really only truly affected AMPS and to a lesser extent, AMPS-D/TDMA. Both long dead.

Any modern cell network simply tells the offending phone to shut up.

There's some very good but very very basic descriptions of where the tech is now and where it's going, here:

http://www.radio-electronics.com/in...olution/3gpp-4g-imt-lte-advanced-tutorial.php

Phones in modern networks are completely controlled by the network or it wouldn't work.

 

[ahypnoz]

When is the best time to use your cellular phone in flight?

The best time to use your phone in flight is when your primary (airplane) radio is malfunctioning.
Remember that you can always call ATC in an emergency with your cell phone, just make sure the controller has answered you with your call sign or registration number before entering their airspace.

 

[ahkahn]

When is the best time to use your cellular phone in flight?

The best time to use your phone in flight is when your primary (airplane) radio is malfunctioning.
Remember that you can always call ATC in an emergency with your cell phone, just make sure the controller has answered you with your call sign or registration number before entering their airspace.

I answered that on my instrument checkride with the old "what do you do if you lose comms" question... Very smart move!! After all, it's another comm radio!