importing an airplane from Canada to U.S.

DKirkpatrick

DKirkpatrick

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DKirkpatrick
Anybody got any experience with this? My mechanic got in my face when I suggested it... like all kinds of nightmares with getting it certified in the U.S... Looking for a Cessna 182 or Cessna 170B. What is involved, and does the process take a long time? Is there a brokerage service that handles this?
Coaching appreciated.
THANKS
dan
 
You will need to;
  • Move it
Ferry or fly it to the US. A C registered plane in Canada has to be flown by a Canadian pilot, or you can ask Transport Canada to recognize your US license, which would take a month or two.

You also need to find an import broker to handle the import paperwork, it is a simple form to complete but most will charge to use their bond. Transport Canada typically charges $400 for light aircraft to be deregistered, and corresponding paperwork sent to the FAA.

If it is not in annual, you will need to ferry it, and apply through Transport Canada for permission and a Certificate of Airworthiness.

  • Deregister It

Once it is here, you need to deregister it in Canada, which involves sending a notification to Transport Canada that it has been exported, remove Canadian registration markings, update the ELT, change transponder codes if applicable.

Make damn sure there are no liens in either country, and that the bill of sale clearly states the owner and past owners names in ink with signatures. You do not want to be stuck with a plane with no registration, that is unable to be registered due to paperwork issues.

The FAA and Transport Canada are both bureaucracies. You do not want to get stuck in a back and forth with them while your plane sits.

  • Register It - IA Portion
Probably the most time consuming part. Apply with the FAA for registration like any other plane purchase. Here is where it gets different, it hasn't had a FAA annual/registration recently. First, an IA will need to go over the books with a fine tooth comb, file 337 paperwork etc on modifications that have been done while the aircraft was in Canada. He will need to verify that all AD's have been complied with. This is basically an Annual plus a paperwork exercise.

This should be done with whoever will continue to maintain the plane, because they will get to know the plane and its history intimately well.

  • Register It - DAR Portion
The next step once the IA has a chance to look through the books and make necessary filings, is to have a DAR go over the paperwork. This is a Designated Airworthiness Representative.

He will go through the paperwork your IA has done, as well as make sure the plane has all the documentation, supplements, STC paperwork etc in order. His job is mainly on the paperwork side, don't expect him to tear the plane to pieces if its in good condition, but if you have a rust bucket plan on him being more thorough.

  • Wait
The FAA in their documentation says you can place Import on the initial registration application. This is not a quick process, expect at least two months if you are an optimist, and six months if you are a realist.

Ballpark figures on a $100k plane that is in Canadian Annual, and don't quote me;

  • Ferry it home $1500-$2500
  • Import/Export Broker- Paperwork/Escrow & Bond $1000-1500
  • 20 Hours IA inspection- $115 @ $2300
  • 20 Hours DAR inspection $115 @ 2300
 
I didn't mention any broker or import companies, but if you google USA Aircraft Import or USA Aircraft Import Broker you will get some results, dig through them, make some calls and figure it out. Ballpark you are looking at $7500 easily to move it in, and have all the paperwork done.

Upside is you can find some really good deals right now with the exchange rate, and you will have a plane that is 100% airworthy according to the documentation when you are finally done with it. From the aircraft I have looked at in the past few months, Canada takes their aviation side seriously, and all of the logs I have looked at are much more thorough then even some commercial operators I have seen.

It is harder to send a plane north to Canada with the extra regulations they have, then it is to send it south across the border. Mandatory prop overhauls etc.

Downside is the wait time, and the potential for some hidden gotcha to come to light and be on the hook for replacing stuff that you normally wouldn't need to.
 
DKirkpatrick said:
Anybody got any experience with this?
Click to expand...
Have done mostly helicopters. Best to find shop/DAR that regularly handles imports. Where are you located? The main things to look out for is that the aircraft has not been on the TCCA Owner-Maintained category and that the aircraft modifications documentation falls under the FAA guidelines. The rest is pretty straight forward. Prices may vary a lot due to a number items so better to do your due diligence up front.
 
You DO NOT need a broker. Contact the local CBP Port of Entry that you will be using and ask for what THEY want you to do. If it’s for personal consumption then DO NOT mention anything implying it is a commercial transaction or they will be idiots and demand you go thru a broker. All you need is a CBP Form 7501 and a bill of sale. Again, call the local PoE. Why? Because no two Ports operate the same. If you importing those Cessnas then they are theoretically “US Goods Returned” (separate import form and zero duty; made in the USA). You don’t need any stupid letter of conformity or EPA crap either.

-Source: I am a recently retired employee of said agency.
 
YooperMooney said:
I am a recently retired employee of said agency.
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As you know... that only takes care of the duties/customs part. Not the FAA part. Some people may need the full service of a broker to import their aircraft, especially in certain locations. Source: my previous DARs.:)
 
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Logs will probably be key. I’ve banged in plenty of salvaged aircraft recoveries too. I didn’t ask too many questions. The goal is to get it back into the USA. Dealing with the FAA is a totally separate matter. I know a gentleman who has imported a ton of birds. Ive never heard him comment on the FAA part of the game.
I still wouldn’t bother with a broker unless it’s quite cheap and they guarantee that it will be registered. Otherwise just import it on your own and coordinate with a local DER if it’s going to turn into a sh*t show.
 
YooperMooney said:
I know a gentleman who has imported a ton of birds. Ive never heard him comment on the FAA part of the game.
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FWIW: Probably so as the FAA part is usually done after the aircraft physically crosses the border which is the easy part. However, if the owner decides to bring the aircraft to the US on his own before coordinating with a DAR he runs the risk of having issues surface that may prevent the DAR from completing the required airworthiness certificates in a timely/cost-efficient manner. Plus not all local DARs perform imports/exports. Having worked with several DARs to correct these types of situations, I've found it's best to plan ahead. And as an FYI, when I mentioned "broker" above it was in reference to an aircraft broker not a customs broker.
 
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alaskan9974 said:
tion side seriously, and all of the logs I have looked at are much more thorough then even some commercial operators I have seen.

It is harder to send a plane north to Canada with the extra regulations they have, then it
Click to expand...
 
Wow. THANKS for the great responses. Really helpful.
 
In the process now. CBP Bellingham, WA is telling me I must have a broker since the item is worth more than $2k. Since my aircraft is US made, it has no duty, but modifications may be subject to duty depending on where the parts were made.
 
That is ridiculous. As a “retired” veteran employee of that agency I find it preposterous that they blew you off like that. I’d consider finding a different POE that isn’t under the control of that port office OR calling back and asking the same question during a different shift.
 
I've considered moving it through Alberta then head to Cut Bank. Asking them to cite chapter and verse for the $2k limit did not get me anywhere.
 
Bell206 said:
Are you personally handling the FAA/TCCA requirements as well?
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The FAA is a known quantity, relatively speaking. I got on the phone with the FSDO and went over the process, contacted a DAR and have started priming the paperwork. This will be a first for me and the IA I work with, but the process seems to be well outlined. CBP is opaque by comparison. It may be that I simply have less practice with that branch of government.
 
The thought of having to repaint the tail number was enough of a discouragement to me.
 
2NinerRomeo said:
This will be a first for me and the IA I work with
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Out of curiosity, have you previously reviewed the aircraft to make sure it will meet its TCDS conformity and that any/all modifications are properly documented and acceptable as well? What model aircraft?
2NinerRomeo said:
CBP is opaque by comparison.
Click to expand...
That's interesting. In the imports I've been involved with never really had an issue with a US produced aircraft. Had some additional hoops to jump through with non-US produced but it sounds out of the norm as mentioned by yooper above.
 
So you have to balance
Less Cost of Purchase against
Cost of Transferring Registration
+ Cost of Tie Down/Hanger and Insurance for a Year (whatever insurance you need for a non flying airplane)
+ A year of interest payments and/or a year of ROI on what you would have gotten from the cash you paid
+ Essentially paying for something and having a year of use taken off of its lifetime value to you

2NinerRomeo, how much are you saving vs buying in the US if I might ask?
 
Coming out.

I bought an EAB in Canada the last week of October 2021.

Ferry to the US was easy, I flew it myself after getting a six month equivalency certificate from Transport Canada (TC) for "aircraft ferry and personal use." I accomplished that in one week via phone and email, I did not have to visit an office as stated in the regulations (doing things via email seems to be the Covid era administrative MO for TC). I also have an insurance policy on another plane that allows equal coverage on newly purchased airplanes, and I confirmed with my underwriter that coverage extended to C- registered aircraft flying from Canada to the U.S.

This also allowed me to fly my new plane a few times in the US before returning the TC registration to the prior owner for de-registration. That was very nice.

The prior owner sent the appropriate de-registration documentation to the designated address via registered post and then left Canada for the winter.

After weeks of no action, both the prior owner and I sent email follow ups. All we got was an automated reply "We will respond to you in order, Covid Covid Covid." Not happy with that, two weeks ago I dug up a local phone number for TC appropriate to the location of the sale. A very pleasant gentleman listened to my plight, checked some of his internal databases for any action on our file, found none, so he sent an 'internal' email of inquiry. The prior owner got an email reply the very next day, and was told to simply reply with a scanned copy of the bill of sale and a request to deregister. We then had a notice of deregistration within 48 hours. Lesson learned: get proactive with TC early in the game.

I forwarded that deregistration notice to my expeditor service in Oklahoma City, whom I had already given all the appropriate FAA aircraft sale forms they requested back in October. They walked all the forms into the FAA, and were handed my new registration. I had an email copy of that registration 24 hours later, and was sent the physical registration via USPS 36 hours later. That was a few hundred dollars well spent.

So now I can coordinate with my DAR to get the inspection done to obtain my AWC and OpLims. He says that will only be three to four weeks to coordinate.

As to how much did I save? I believe I got exactly the plane I wanted at a fair price to both parties. For my part, the price paid reflected a discount even above and beyond the pain of bringing it across the border. I have been working on preparing the aircraft for the DAR inspection as I waited for the administrative cogs to turn, so not that much time lost, so to speak. I used a vinyl that matched the base color of the airplane to cover the TC registration marks, and then put vinyl N- numbers on top of that. Looks perfect from twenty feet away, and darn good up close. There will certainly not be a year of sunk costs, lost ROI, etc.

Hope that helps.
 
One question I have that hasn't been discussed is one of timing for the funds to the Canadian owner. I was looking at a US manufactured plane in Kentucky that had come down from being registered in Ontario for a few years. I've mostly come to an agreement with the owner on price, but he is insisting on being paid as soon as the plane is deregistered in Canada, not after the registration and airworthiness is passed here. Is this the normal procedure? It seemed to me like money would be passing hands halfway through the process. A Canadian title search still has to be completed as well.
 
binesman said:
I've mostly come to an agreement with the owner on price, but he is insisting on being paid as soon as the plane is deregistered in Canada, not after the registration and airworthiness is passed here. Is this the normal procedure?
Click to expand...
Perhaps use an escrow agent/company to hold funds until the paperwork is completed?
FYI: once the owner deregisters his aircraft he loses significant leverage if the sale doesn't go through.
 
Bell206 said:
Perhaps use an escrow agent/company to hold funds until the paperwork is completed?
FYI: once the owner deregisters his aircraft he loses significant leverage if the sale doesn't go through.
Click to expand...
Yes, I thought that would be a good idea, too. Apparently, that still leave him open to too much risk (in his opinion). I am willing to put the full amount into escrow. To me, it seems like all the risk shifts to me if, for whatever reason, the paperwork gets gummed up in the US. I would be stuck with a plane sized paperweight while being notably shorter on cash.
 
binesman said:
Apparently, that still leave him open to too much risk (in his opinion).
Click to expand...
Well thats the whole point of escrow to cut the monetary risk. Sounds like he knows something more than you do. What I find interesting he let his C-reg aircraft fly to Kentucky and stay. Any idea why he allowed that?
 
Honestly, if I was to sell a C-registered plane to someone in the U.S. I would make it a condition to pay upfront as well. Once it's deregistered in Canada, getting it registered in the U.S. is no longer of my concern. The buyer would have to do his/her due diligence to make sure the plane will be able to get registered in the U.S. If the buyer fails or takes his/her sweet time doing the U.S. paperwork, why would I agree to wait for my money with no control over how fast the new owner completes registration formalities? It's no different than selling a Canadian plane in Canada. I once sold a plane to a guy over two years ago now, who still hasn't registered the plane under his name. Doesn't matter to me, I got my money and I informed Transport Canada that the plane is no longer mine. I sure would be mad if my money was stuck in escrow for the past two years because the new owner takes this long to register the plane.

Having said all that, the aircraft market in the U.S. so much bigger than in Canada. I see why some Canadians would want to import a U.S. registered plane, but an American importing a Canadian registered plane? I'm sure somewhere in the U.S. there is or shortly will be another plane with the same specs somewhere on the market without the hassle of importing it. If the price is MUCH lower than market rate of comparable planes in the U.S., chances are something is wrong. Generally speaking, planes in Canada are more expensive than in the U.S.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I sure would be mad if my money was stuck in escrow for the past two years because the new owner takes this long to register the plane.
Click to expand...
FYI: That's not how the escrow process works, at least in my experience. The main purpose of using escrow services is to ensure the aircraft can finish the entire registration and certification requirements and in the shortest time possible. While aircraft brought in from Canada are usually on the bottom of the risk list there have been issues once the dereg/re-reg process has been completed its discovered the aircraft is not eligible for an AWC during the certification process. That is where escrow protects the buyer.
 
Bell206 said:
there have been issues once the dereg/re-reg process has been completed its discovered the aircraft is not eligible for an AWC during the certification process.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that can be confirmed to a VERY high certainty prior to signing the purchasing agreement. The main reason I would never take a plane off the register prior to getting full payment is the fact that, in order to be able to de-register the plane in Canada, one has to send in the bill of sale of the plane with the new owner being a foreign individual or entity to Transport Canada. Additionally, you have to take off the registration marks and remove the transponder code. The bill of sale officially transfers the ownership of the plane. If the buyer ends up not releasing the money for whatever reason, technically speaking, the plane no longer belongs to the seller and he/she is at the mercy of the buyer to cancel the bill of sale. If you sell a plane domestically, you also only issue the bill of sale after full payment. Money is in escrow while the plane undergoes inspections, etc. but once the buyer is happy with everything, the funds are released and the bill of sale is issued. Again, this is just my opinion. I don't really care how others are doing this. I never sold a plane across borders and never bought a plane across borders. Looking at the process (both from a buying and selling perspective), I doubt I'll ever do this to begin with.
 
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Chrisgoesflying said:
I'm sure that can be confirmed to a VERY high certainty prior to signing the purchasing agreement. The main reason I would never take a plane off the register prior to getting full payment is the fact that, in order to be able to de-register the plane in Canada, one has to send in the bill of sale of the plane with the new owner being a foreign individual or entity to Transport Canada. Additionally, you have to take off the registration marks and remove the transponder code. The bill of sale officially transfers the ownership of the plane. If the buyer ends up not releasing the money for whatever reason, technically speaking, the plane no longer belongs to the buyer and he/she is at the mercy of the buyer to cancel the bill of sale. If you sell a plane domestically, you also only issue the bill of sale after full payment. Money is in escrow while the plane undergoes inspections, etc. but once the buyer is happy with everything, the funds are released and the bill of sale is issued. Again, this is just my opinion. I don't really care how others are doing this. I never sold a plane across borders and never bought a plane across borders. Looking at the process (both from a buying and selling perspective), I doubt I'll ever do this to begin with.
Click to expand...
I imported a plane December from Canada in December of 22. If you get a Canadian Cetificate of Airworthiness for Export the chances of not getting a CofA in the US in negligible. This is what I was advised to do by the FAA DAR and I had no issues getting thenUS CofA
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I'm sure that can be confirmed to a VERY high certainty prior to signing the purchasing agreement.
Click to expand...
And thats quite probable with a Canadian aircraft. But you still have the unknown of what the DAR will determine and he can’t officially start the AWC process until the aircraft has a current and valid US registration record. It that unknown that catches people.

However, as mentioned above, obtaining a TCCA Export C of A is really the way to go as it makes the DAR AWC basically a paperwork exercise vs an in depth inspection and check. Regardless, I’ve found some people do not want to be bothered with ECoA at the Part 91 levels. Unfortunately, for this Kentucky aircraft it is a bit late to consider a ECoA.
 
First time posting, thanks in advance for your help. I am in the process of importing a recreational, personal use airplane from Canada to the US. This thread has been very helpful in framing the process and guiding my steps.

Pretty basic purchase, no financing, and I've gotten the escrow company helping expedite the FAA paperwork. This will be my third aircraft purchase so the FAA part is pretty well understood other than the DAR components, etc. Fortunately I have a great A&P helping shepherd me through that.

The primary issue I am encountering is the widely varied opinions on the customs situation. Proposing to bring the aircraft into the States at Sanderson - KANJ. The CBP office there gave me two stories - option one is to fly it in myself, show up at their door, complete "the paperwork" and carry on; option two was if a Canadian pilot brings it in I will need a customs broker, forms pre-completed, fees, duties paid, etc.

I called the broker recommended by the escrow folks and the quoted cost was over $2K to do the option two scenario This is for a Cessna, sales price less than $60K USD.

Reading and re-reading this thread and some others it seems that I don't need the broker, however can anyone shed light on what forms, details and fees I should be prepared to pay if I fly in myself. I can either get the Canadian license reciprocity, or simply tag along with my Canadian pilot friend and get it where it needs to be.

Appreciate any insights this group can offer.
 
motorrad1973 said:
First time posting, thanks in advance for your help. I am in the process of importing a recreational, personal use airplane from Canada to the US. This thread has been very helpful in framing the process and guiding my steps.

Pretty basic purchase, no financing, and I've gotten the escrow company helping expedite the FAA paperwork. This will be my third aircraft purchase so the FAA part is pretty well understood other than the DAR components, etc. Fortunately I have a great A&P helping shepherd me through that.

The primary issue I am encountering is the widely varied opinions on the customs situation. Proposing to bring the aircraft into the States at Sanderson - KANJ. The CBP office there gave me two stories - option one is to fly it in myself, show up at their door, complete "the paperwork" and carry on; option two was if a Canadian pilot brings it in I will need a customs broker, forms pre-completed, fees, duties paid, etc.

I called the broker recommended by the escrow folks and the quoted cost was over $2K to do the option two scenario This is for a Cessna, sales price less than $60K USD.

Reading and re-reading this thread and some others it seems that I don't need the broker, however can anyone shed light on what forms, details and fees I should be prepared to pay if I fly in myself. I can either get the Canadian license reciprocity, or simply tag along with my Canadian pilot friend and get it where it needs to be.

Appreciate any insights this group can offer.
Click to expand...
I used World Class Shipping as my customs broker. cost $944 all in. Was for a Cherokee 235 purchase price 125k USD. Canadian Pilot flew it in as it was still Canadian registered.
 
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Nick Geber said:
I used World Class Shipping as my customs broker. cost $944 all in. Was for a Cherokee 235 purchase price 125k USD. Canadian Pilot flew it in as it was still Canadian registered.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the World Class Shipping referral. Excellent response and price. Kyle in their NY office is a pilot and has been great to deal with so far.
 
Kyle is great, glad it worked out.
 
Nick Geber said:
I imported a plane December from Canada in December of 22. If you get a Canadian Cetificate of Airworthiness for Export the chances of not getting a CofA in the US in negligible. This is what I was advised to do by the FAA DAR and I had no issues getting thenUS CofA
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Nick I am importing a plane from Canada now and would like to speak to you if possible. Not sure how to send pm in this forum. Please contact me if possible Thank you
 
Is it important for me as buyer imported from Canada for seller in Canada to get export certificate of airworthiness? What does that do for me to require that from the seller?
 
drbob said:
Is it important for me as buyer imported from Canada for seller in Canada to get export certificate of airworthiness? What does that do for me to require that from the seller?
Click to expand...
It depends on several things. However, I would defer to the DAR you are using to complete the FAA airworthiness import requirements whether or not to request an Export C of A. While it does streamline the airworthiness portion it can have some negative impacts on the logistics side especially if the aircraft is in Canada when the CofA is issued as it is not an authorization to operate the aircraft.
 
I don't see it mentioned but check FAA records using a serial number search to see if there was a previous N-number.. then look for any accident reports etc......
 
On a CA to US deal, does the escrow company hold the funds to the seller until the notice of decertification from Canada to the FAA has been filed?

I’m the buyer. He’s flying the plane to me. If all goes well with inspection we agree on the deal. At that time he decertifies the plane which I see is a snail mail form to filed by him. I can’t register the plane until the FAA is notified of the decent. Does he get his money right away or after the FAA is notified?
 
Transport Canada should be able to decertify same day. They did when I imported my plane
 
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