Important News about the Future of POA

My opinion, which is just that, my opinion....

If you want to give money to help PoA with this transition go ahead. If you don't want to give money--don't. It really is that simple. Come on folks, we're talking about a measly $450.

Both myself and the management council put a lot of time into this board. It is rare that money is asked for and I don't go asking for money to cover the operation of this board. I believe in what PoA provides and donate my time and resources without expectations. It isn't always about what you get for each dollar--it is about helping a community in which you believe in.

If you don't want to donate, don't. If you can't afford to donate, don't. You can continue to use this forum throughout the future for free. Not a bad deal if you ask me.
 
jesse said:
My opinion, which is just that, my opinion....

If you want to give money to help PoA with this transition go ahead. If you don't want to give money--don't. It really is that simple. Come on folks, we're talking about a measly $450.

Both myself and the management council put a lot of time into this board. It is rare that money is asked for and I don't go asking for money to cover the operation of this board. I believe in what PoA provides and donate my time and resources without expectations. It isn't always about what you get for each dollar--it is about helping a community in which you believe in.

If you don't want to donate, don't. If you can't afford to donate, don't. You can continue to use this forum throughout the future for free. Not a bad deal if you ask me.
Click to expand...

It has absolutely nothing to do with what I get for my dollar that causes me hesitation, Jesse, but everything to do with the fact that Chuck is talking about stepping down, and with already one possibly problematic member of the management council, I certainly don't want to see another one added to the mix without community input.

And that's why the questions are coming from me on this. I'd be willing to donate money if I knew that it was going to support a site that won't be run by 2 MCers that don't have the best interests of the site in mind, because that'll only lead to more and more cancer for the site until it stops being the great resource that it is today.
 
Re: Imortant News about the Future of POA

Trapper John said:
Not to sound too contrarian, but setting up a bunch of formal stuff is probably more likely to cause problems than prevent them. Sometimes it's best to just go on faith. If it gets screwed up, and enough people get P.O.'d, someone can start an new board and the P.O.'d people can go there.


Trapper John
Click to expand...

Greebo said:
Very astute. It's happened before, and it'll likely happen again.
Click to expand...

From what I am seeing is that the lassiez fare board is getting a bit tight on rules and regulations. Take a look at some of their recent headset threads

It was their lack of rules and policy that led to that mess. The MC at PoA prevents that problem form happening here.

I am just saying I hope they take as much care with the PoA, Inc. decisions.
 
jesse said:
If you don't want to donate, don't. If you can't afford to donate, don't.
Click to expand...
Thank's Jesse, I was sweating that one. :rolleyes:

jesse said:
You can continue to use this forum throughout the future for free. Not a bad deal if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Yes but...how many times has that fact been used as a club to brow beat people with?

Sorry, the reasons I'm hesitant to contribute have nothing to do with legalities.
 
Re: Imortant News about the Future of POA

smigaldi said:
Well that is a new reason. Your earlier reason was so that it would remain as you had envisioned it. It sounds as though you are not quit sure what incorporation is getting you. Are you sure you thought this out?
Click to expand...
What I said, Scott, was "the main reason" (well technically, I said 'there main reason' - stupid typo).

The fact that there is a main reason for me does not mean that those other reasons do not exist or that we're unaware of the benefits therein. I'm not going to get into another quibbling argument over semantics here, either. There are multiple reasons to incorporate, and multiple benefits. I only stated the one that is most important *to me*

Some MC members may very well see the corporate veil as their own personal main reason. I don't know. I didn't ask why each of them voted in agreement with the plan we've discussed at great length, and I'm not asking them to explain themselves either, because *I* won't be in PoA, Inc., once this is done.
 
Jeeeeeeez. I'm supposed to be the tin-foil hat nutcase. Some of you guys must never sleep.

this is a very discrete(logic, not emotion) issue:

If

Send a donation.

or

Do not send a donation.

else

Continue to use POA without interruption.

Get it?
 
SkyHog said:
...and with already one possibly problematic member of the management council, I certainly don't want to see another one added to the mix without community input.
Click to expand...

Frank Browne said:
Sorry, the reasons I'm hesitant to contribute have nothing to do with legalities.
Click to expand...


I am so glad I'm not a member of the MC. Not worth it, even if I had a free membership in Cheese-of-the-Month to go with all the whine...


Trapper John
 
SkyHog said:
It has absolutely nothing to do with what I get for my dollar that causes me hesitation, Jesse, but everything to do with the fact that Chuck is talking about stepping down, and with already one possibly problematic member of the management council, I certainly don't want to see another one added to the mix without community input.

And that's why the questions are coming from me on this. I'd be willing to donate money if I knew that it was going to support a site that won't be run by 2 MCers that don't have the best interests of the site in mind, because that'll only lead to more and more cancer for the site until it stops being the great resource that it is today.
Click to expand...
I'm not aware of a single MC member who hasn't got the best interests of PoA at heart. We have different (VERY) opinions on what is best, to be certain, but that's why we have had many long, intense discussions about those differences.

As for input: the original MC arose out of a simple course of events. The people who initially discussed making this happen formed the Original MC. As the idea developed, we discussed adding others to the MC, and over time, others departed, for various reasons. When necessary, MC members were replaced through group discussion among the remaining MC members. The MC has never sought out the input of the forum at large. Instead, we examined potential candidates based on contributions (NOT of the fiscal variety) and areas of expertise.

Personally, I oppose any such "soliciting of input of the public", because popularity contests are, in my 25 year experience, the singularly worst possible way to choose moderators of an online forum.

I personally see no need for that to change. However, that decision will remain up to the MC that remains when I depart.
 
SkyHog said:
It has absolutely nothing to do with what I get for my dollar that causes me hesitation, Jesse, but everything to do with the fact that Chuck is talking about stepping down, and with already one possibly problematic member of the management council, I certainly don't want to see another one added to the mix without community input.

And that's why the questions are coming from me on this. I'd be willing to donate money if I knew that it was going to support a site that won't be run by 2 MCers that don't have the best interests of the site in mind, because that'll only lead to more and more cancer for the site until it stops being the great resource that it is today.
Click to expand...

That is exactly my concern as well. Thanks Nick.
 
Greebo said:
Personally, I oppose any such "soliciting of input of the public", because popularity contests are, in my 25 year experience, the singularly worst possible way to choose moderators of an online forum.
Click to expand...

I look at NAFI, and see how it can go wrong the other way too. But of course, as others have pointed out, if it DOES go wrong, folks can vote with their feet (or their URLs).
 
Trapper John said:
I am so glad I'm not a member of the MC. Not worth it, even if I had a free membership in Cheese-of-the-Month to go with all the whine...


Trapper John
Click to expand...

All I can say John is that there have events here to which you are not privy, but if you knew the details of these events, you probably wouldn't make such snide comments as that.
 
smigaldi said:
Apparently you don't.

This is not about just giving money. It is about preserving a resource that we all enjoy and seeing change without understanding the underlying reason nor seeing guarantees of how PoA will be run in the future.
Click to expand...

You have never had a guarantee of how PoA would run in the future. Why do you seem to feel as if you are entitled to one now?
 
Frank Browne said:
All I can say John is that there have events here to which you are not privy, but if you knew the details of these events, you probably wouldn't make such snide comments as that.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I'm out, this one's jumped the shark.

JumpTheShark.jpg


Trapper John
 
Greebo said:
You have never had a guarantee of how PoA would run in the future. Why do you seem to feel as if you are entitled to one now?
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you're getting so irritated here, Chuck. No one's calling you out at all, if anything, people are praising the job you've done to date. I've disagreed with some of the decisions you've made, but hell, I respect the way they were done (well...except one, but blegh, 1 out of like 500 ain't bad).

Its not entitlement, Chuck, its a desire to see things continue to run well. You wouldn't have done something to ruin the site, we all know that. That's guarantee enough, right there.
 
jesse said:
My opinion, which is just that, my opinion....

If you want to give money to help PoA with this transition go ahead. If you don't want to give money--don't. It really is that simple. Come on folks, we're talking about a measly $450.

Both myself and the management council put a lot of time into this board. It is rare that money is asked for and I don't go asking for money to cover the operation of this board. I believe in what PoA provides and donate my time and resources without expectations. It isn't always about what you get for each dollar--it is about helping a community in which you believe in.

If you don't want to donate, don't. If you can't afford to donate, don't. You can continue to use this forum throughout the future for free. Not a bad deal if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Very well stated, Jesse.
 
Re: Imortant News about the Future of POA

smigaldi said:
It was their lack of rules and policy that led to that mess. The MC at PoA prevents that problem form happening here.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that vote of confidence.
I am just saying I hope they take as much care with the PoA, Inc. decisions.
Click to expand...
Since it's the same people doing it, you should have nothing to worry about. And even if changes in the MC are made, it will be done the same we it's been done since PoA started, and since you seem to think we're doing a good job so far, that, too, should be cause for confidence, not concern.
 
Trapper John said:
I am so glad I'm not a member of the MC. Not worth it, even if I had a free membership in Cheese-of-the-Month to go with all the whine...


Trapper John
Click to expand...

FWIW, so am I, I've done the job before, and its not easy having people criticize your actions repeatedly.

Even if I were offered an MC position (which I should add is a laughable suggestion), I wouldn't take it for that exact reason.
 
Also please send me an address and I'll have my company make a contribution. Thank you for your continued support.
 
I may have to contribute again, just to make a point... :p
 
Greebo said:
You have never had a guarantee of how PoA would run in the future. Why do you seem to feel as if you are entitled to one now?
Click to expand...

Oh - because money's involved of course.... Now I'll grant you that this is a one-time donation, not a membership "fee", but it stirs up the same sort of issues.
 
Thanks for posting the URL for contributions. I'll make a contribution. If the board continues to work for me, I'll keep coming back and make my occasional post. If not, I'll do something else. You aren't asking for a lot of money form any of us...
 
I'd like to express my appreciation to those that got this board up and running and that keep the wheels greased. I've served on several non-profits and know what it takes in time and energy to do a good job. I'll send in another contribution.

Best,

Dave
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Thanks for posting the URL for contributions. I'll make a contribution. If the board continues to work for me, I'll keep coming back and make my occasional post. If not, I'll do something else. You aren't asking for a lot of money form any of us...
Click to expand...

+1

jesse said:
My opinion, which is just that, my opinion....

If you want to give money to help PoA with this transition go ahead. If you don't want to give money--don't. It really is that simple. Come on folks, we're talking about a measly $450.

Both myself and the management council put a lot of time into this board. It is rare that money is asked for and I don't go asking for money to cover the operation of this board. I believe in what PoA provides and donate my time and resources without expectations. It isn't always about what you get for each dollar--it is about helping a community in which you believe in.

If you don't want to donate, don't. If you can't afford to donate, don't. You can continue to use this forum throughout the future for free. Not a bad deal if you ask me.
Click to expand...

+100
 
smigaldi said:
Apparently you don't.

This is not about just giving money. It is about preserving a resource that we all enjoy and seeing change without understanding the underlying reason nor seeing guarantees of how PoA will be run in the future.
Click to expand...

You don't, won't, and never have had that guarantee before. The money issue isn't related. If it's the control of the board you're interested in, then you need to talk to the MC and offer your services and/or infrastructure. You may, or may not get taken up, but it has nothing to do with a request for money.
 
Done. Thank you for the very informative board!

Chris
 
docmirror said:
You don't, won't, and never have had that guarantee before. The money issue isn't related. If it's the control of the board you're interested in, then you need to talk to the MC and offer your services and/or infrastructure. You may, or may not get taken up, but it has nothing to do with a request for money.
Click to expand...
I am not at all interested in running the board. Where did I saw I was? All I asked was where will I be able to find out the details of how the board is being run. I also raised the issue to make the MC aware that people enjoy a resource and want to see it continued in the fine manner it is being run now. I think when you give money to organization you are entitled to ensure that the money is being used wisely. All reputable transparent organization have that sort of information available to people who donate. All that I asked for is what I ask any group that I have given money to. Frankly I am a little surprised that this information is not already available considering that a lot of it is required for the incorporation and will be also required for any potential tax filings that the corporation will have to deal with.
 
He's just scared of your Santa!
 
Folks pick the oddest places to worry about how money is being spent. That's certainly a huge concern where their grand total of receipts are what... maybe a two or three grand a year from members? Yep, I'm worried about the MC buying themselves Cadillacs on that one!

If they only knew how it was wasted at so many so-called charitable organizations!
 
KennyFlys said:
Folks pick the oddest places to worry about how money is being spent. That's certainly a huge concern where their grand total of receipts are what... maybe a two or three grand a year from members? Yep, I'm worried about the MC buying themselves Cadillacs on that one!

If they only knew how it was wasted at so many so-called charitable organizations!
Click to expand...
2 or 3 grand! Hahahaha Thats funny!

Try maybe a tenth of that! :D
 
SkyHog said:
I don't understand why you're getting so irritated here, Chuck. No one's calling you out at all, if anything, people are praising the job you've done to date. I've disagreed with some of the decisions you've made, but hell, I respect the way they were done (well...except one, but blegh, 1 out of like 500 ain't bad).

Its not entitlement, Chuck, its a desire to see things continue to run well. You wouldn't have done something to ruin the site, we all know that. That's guarantee enough, right there.
Click to expand...
i have to admit I am baffled as well by Chuck's and a few other responses. All that was asked were a few questions, couple of compliments were paid, and some obvious anxiety over what this change means to a place we enjoy being at. Then all of a sudden a temper tantrum occurred. Beats me what is up!
 
Re: Imortant News about the Future of POA

AdamZ said:
Scott and Nick the way I read your posts I sense doubt that Chuck or the MC have the best of intentions with regard to this change. Once the MC raises the funds and has our inital Board retreat at the Palm Desert Resort. ( I assure you we got a good deal apparently AIG had to cancel out a few rooms for their stay and we have taken advantage of a very good last minute deal) we can craft appropriate bylaws with golden BRS systems put inplace to properly protect the MC.
Click to expand...

See, right there brings into question the viability of this whole thing. If the people in charge are going to choose to go to the Palm Desert where they need a last minute deal to get the same price as a convention held in a much nicer setting in the Bahamas, I'm not sure I can trust their ability to make good decisions....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top