I'm OK, but plane is broke.

J

JB1842

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Huron, OH
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Josh
As a companion thread to, "On the ground, did not die", who here has had top make this call or text? It happened to me last night :sad:. Night flight with instructor. Second landing at KETB. Came in low and short. Nose wheel hit leading edge of runway, nose wheel broke off, and we went skidding down the runway for 200 yards. We were able to move it off the runway and to a tie down spot. No prop strike :rockon:!!! Mechanic came out this morning. First look appears only the wheel and the fork were damaged. Got lucky on this one. Talked to the FAA inspector this morning. He said it will probably be written up as in incident, but is going to check out the plane tomorrow morning.
 
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You broke the wheel off the nose and the fork stayed in place???

Dang....Would not have though that possible.

'bout the closest I've had was landing with a flat nose wheel in a Duchess.
 
Got real lucky on this one.
 

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...and suddenly "soft field" landing technique becomes a WHOLE lot clearer why to practice!
 
Make sure you check the firewall real thoroughly. A hit that hard has the potential to wrinkle the firewall.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Make sure you check the firewall real thoroughly. A hit that hard has the potential to wrinkle the firewall.
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At first looks, everything appears to be good. My mechanic didn't want to dig too deep at the FBO it was at (not my home field), but I've heard good things about the guy there. I'll know more tomorrow.
 
Wouldn't want to see an "A" model RV that hit that hard.
 
Bet that woke your instructor up. Write the check and get back on that horse.
 
Bet the instructor isn't happy.

Doesn't look like a big deal to fix if no metal was bent.

You don't fly 777s for a living do you?
 
Clean the brown stain off the seats yet?
 
No one's asked yet...

If the nosewheel hit the runway edge, where was the tail?

A whole lot short, were ya? :)
 
Interesting picture. Cannot imagine the wheel popping off and the fork being okay. Agree with checking the firewall, but then it is not your plane, so I guess it is not your decision is it? I guess the lesson here is keep some power until you know you have the runway made?
 
Bet it took full power to taxi!

Didn't know there was a break-away STC'd mod for the Cezzna nosegear. It aught to help prevent firewall damage. There is one particular 182 RG at BJC that needs it. I think it's had 3 new props in the last 4 years.
 
douglas393 said:
Interesting picture. Cannot imagine the wheel popping off and the fork being okay. Agree with checking the firewall, but then it is not your plane, so I guess it is not your decision is it? I guess the lesson here is keep some power until you know you have the runway made?
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It's my plane! I think that I'm going to suck up the cost of this fix and not file an insurance claim.
 
denverpilot said:
No one's asked yet...

If the nosewheel hit the runway edge, where was the tail?

A whole lot short, were ya? :)
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Just a little short. As my mechanic said, "You didn't need to use the whole runway." Not to place blame, but he said he was surprised that the grass and runway weren't flush. Runway is a good 6-8 inches higher off the ground. On the previous night landings, I was flaring too high. CFI said I was flaring for the lights, not the runway. Think I was trying to fix that, and flared a little too late.
 
By "move it off the runway and to a tie down spot" did you mean taxi it under power or work out another way to move it?
 
Clark1961 said:
Bet it took full power to taxi!

Didn't know there was a break-away STC'd mod for the Cezzna nosegear. It aught to help prevent firewall damage. There is one particular 182 RG at BJC that needs it. I think it's had 3 new props in the last 4 years.
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Good thing with a 150 that you can move it pretty easy with 2 people by pushing down on the tail while pushing it off the runway.
 
JB1842 said:
Good thing with a 150 that you can move it pretty easy with 2 people by pushing down on the tail while pushing it off the runway.
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Answered my question. I was afraid you tried the other :D
 
JB1842 said:
It's my plane! I think that I'm going to suck up the cost of this fix and not file an insurance claim.
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Sorry, bad assumption. If it only the wheel probably a good idea, if it is the more than you may want to rethink that.
 
pbramlett said:
Bet that woke your instructor up. Write the check and get back on that horse.
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I will. Have 4 more landings and .3 hours to finish my night, then check ride prep. Will probably finish at my home field in the Cherokee while mine is being fixed. Only 2 more weeks to Oshkosh, went there for my night cross country. It was interesting to see the big colored runway dots coming at you in your landing lights. But this is the 2nd time in a week my school has had to call the FSDO. Another student didn't switch tanks on a Cub, ran out of fuel, and had to put it down in a field. I have good instructors, he took it well.
 
JB1842 said:
Just a little short. As my mechanic said, "You didn't need to use the whole runway." Not to place blame, but he said he was surprised that the grass and runway weren't flush. Runway is a good 6-8 inches higher off the ground. On the previous night landings, I was flaring too high. CFI said I was flaring for the lights, not the runway. Think I was trying to fix that, and flared a little too late.
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Not sure about that. My impression from speaking to others is that is often the case, maybe not 6 or 8 inches but not flush either. But imagine the damage of hitting a curb with your car at 40 or 50 mph. My son did it with a tiberon, at 20 mph(or so he says) and it ripped the tire from the car and broke the axle.
 
douglas393 said:
Sorry, bad assumption. If it only the wheel probably a good idea, if it is the more than you may want to rethink that.
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Yeah. Just browsing on the web, and it seems like I can get parts for under $1000 and then labor for the mechanic. Not too bad. As a new owner, I'm not sure I want to risk getting dropped by my insurance company or getting my rates jacked up.
 
douglas393 said:
Not sure about that. My impression from speaking to others is that is often the case, maybe not 6 or 8 inches but not flush either. But imagine the damage of hitting a curb with your car at 40 or 50 mph. My son did it with a tiberon, at 20 mph(or so he says) and it ripped the tire from the car and broke the axle.
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I'll take his word for it. My home field is flush. Never stopped to look at any other airport. From the look of the tire damage, if it would have been only a few inches, I would have been ok or just a popped wheel at the most. Still would have bounced hard, but might have been able to fly home that night. At least the airport is located between my house and my home field, so it didn't take long for my wife to pick us up.
 
At night it's generally a good idea to use the 1000 foot markers as your aiming point instead of the numbers if you have them available :)

Good luck with the repairs
 
Wow, OP you got luckier than a blind dog getting a service job if you ask me...

Felix the cat minus one. Don't screw up the other eight. ;)

And what a testament to the strength of Clyde Cessna's creation.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Make sure you check the firewall real thoroughly. A hit that hard has the potential to wrinkle the firewall.
Click to expand...

If that's a 150, the nosegear is attached to the engine mount. It might be cracked or bent. If it was my airplane I'd be getting a lot of NDI done on the whole front end.

The nosewheel itself probably didn't just break away. The axle bolt and the two slugs that retain the axle itself are gone. The bolt probably failed and let the slugs pop out.

Dan
 
Jeanie said:
At night it's generally a good idea to use the 1000 foot markers as your aiming point instead of the numbers if you have them available :)

Good luck with the repairs
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The second center stripe also works.

Some time ago a Private Pilot and CFI did $40K+ worth of damage to a T182T aiming for the numbers with a power off 180 at night.

They landed perfectly on the runway edge, but forgot the two foot high snow bank right up to the runway edge.

Even sadder, they didn't know they did it.

Luckily the next pilot did a thorough pre-flight and found all the wrinkles behind the main gear attachment area and damage to the underside of the tail.
 
Dan Thomas said:
If that's a 150, the nosegear is attached to the engine mount. It might be cracked or bent. If it was my airplane I'd be getting a lot of NDI done on the whole front end.

The nosewheel itself probably didn't just break away. The axle bolt and the two slugs that retain the axle itself are gone. The bolt probably failed and let the slugs pop out.

Dan
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You are correct. The bolt sheared off and the whole wheel assembly went with it. I have more pictures on my phone. My mechanic told me to make sure the FBO mechanic checks the engine mount really well.
 
Jeanie said:
At night it's generally a good idea to use the 1000 foot markers as your aiming point instead of the numbers if you have them available :)

Good luck with the repairs
Click to expand...

I agree. I got caught up in the cockpit looking at airspeed on final, flared too late. But it was a really good stabilized approach, according to my CFI.
 
JB1842 said:
...the grass and runway weren't flush. Runway is a good 6-8 inches higher off the ground...
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So I assume the mains must have hit it too, hard to imagine how they wouldn't. Anyway, aside from looking for wrinkles in the firewall you better check the main gear blocks under the floor.

If one or more of those are cracked you're not going to be a happy camper. :nonod:
 
Silvaire said:
So I assume the mains must have hit it too, hard to imagine how they wouldn't. Anyway, aside from looking for wrinkles in the firewall you better check the main gear blocks under the floor.

If one or more of those are cracked you're not going to be a happy camper. :nonod:
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You find that, you'll start that insurance claim...
 
Silvaire said:
So I assume the mains must have hit it too, hard to imagine how they wouldn't. Anyway, aside from looking for wrinkles in the firewall you better check the main gear blocks under the floor.

If one or more of those are cracked you're not going to be a happy camper. :nonod:
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Don't think the mains hit the runway edge. We landed short a few feet, and bounced. I think it was on the bounce where the nose wheel hit, and we cleared the mains. At least that is how I recall it to be and the marks on the grass and runway appear to show how it happened.
 
JB1842 said:
Don't think the mains hit the runway edge. We landed short a few feet, and bounced. I think it was on the bounce where the nose wheel hit, and we cleared the mains. At least that is how I recall it to be and the marks on the grass and runway appear to show how it happened.
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You should have bought a Lotto ticket that day.
 
JB1842 said:
You are correct. The bolt sheared off and the whole wheel assembly went with it. I have more pictures on my phone. My mechanic told me to make sure the FBO mechanic checks the engine mount really well.
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I have a whole lot of questions about that.

Why did the axel cups that protrude thru the strut not hold the wheel in place?

there is no way possible to have the wheel leave the strut with them in place see the page from the 100 service manual.
Item 9 (axel bolt) would have to be removed the cups Item 12 would have to be missing before items 13 and 14 could get loose.

other wise your strut is broken off at the wheel attachment points.
 

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