IFR Training (VOR) Scenario Help for Learning

steviedeviant

steviedeviant

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StevieD
IFR Rated (or those who can help),

I have passed the written and working on my IFR rating. Yes, I have a CFI and I want to see what others would do. I still have a little misconceptions about enroute to getting on and ILS final.

Situation....KBHM to KMEM (Birmingham to Memphis). I am leaving KBHM and on the VUZ VOR V159 to HAB VOR. I am at 5,000 feet and for this situation, let's suppose I am about 10 miles from the HAB VOR at the moment (between VUZ and HAB). Weather is bad and I need to divert and KTUP (Class D) rather than Memphis. I select ILS RWY 36 for my approach.

Using VOR (not GPS), how do I nagivate to the GAGYE IAF to get on the ILS approach? I know this is easy for those of you with experience - and yes, I could just follow a GPS to get there, but what are the steps to consider to get from HAB to touchdown at TUP? I think if someone could give me what they would do, this would be more helpful to me in the learning process. I am a little lost in this process of what I am suppose to do - consider this is a checkride and I have been diverted or have an emergency and need to land. I have and use Foreflight as well.

Thanks,
SD
 
Looks to me like navigating to the TUP VOR, then the 169 radial from TUP to GAGYE (basically intercepting the LOC outbound from the 169 radial)
 
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Could fly to the OTB VOR then 235 radial to CEVSI and fly the arc to GAGYE
Or ATC can vector you to the approach fix

Keep in mind you’ll need gps to fly the ILS Y 36 approach. The missed you’d need a gps to fly the hold. The ILS Z 36 approach uses all VOR
 
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steviedeviant said:
Using VOR (not GPS), how do I nagivate to the GAGYE IAF to get on the ILS approach? I know this is easy for those of you with experience - and yes, I could just follow a GPS to get there, but what are the steps to consider to get from HAB to touchdown at TUP?
Click to expand...

You can't, GPS is required for that approach as seen on the approach plate. You could try looking at the ILS Z instead of the ILS Y.
 
We have the almost identical approach at our local airport but we don't have an arc, this is an option as well. ILS Z, Head to the VOR, 147º to the OM at Veron (IAF), pick up the back course of the localizer and make your turn to intercept the localizer.
 
Jamie696 said:
ILS Z, Head to the VOR, 147º to the OM at Veron (IAF), pick up the back course of the localizer and make your turn to intercept the localizer.
Click to expand...
Um, Vernon's on the front course. I seem to have forgot how to upload images.
 

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dtuuri said:
Um, Vernon's on the front course. I seem to have forgot how to upload images.
Click to expand...
Flying outbound on the front course the loc is going to act like a backcourse though until you get turned inbound, right?
 
dtuuri said:
Um, Vernon's on the front course. I seem to have forgot how to upload images.
Click to expand...



Yes, I worded that improperly. Thanks!

Head to the VOR, 147º to the OM at Veron (IAF), fly the outbound localizer course to the barb and make your procedure turn inbound.
 
benyflyguy said:
Flying outbound on the front course the loc is going to act like a backcourse though until you get turned inbound, right?
Click to expand...
Depends on which way you compare flying the back course. Need to specify the direction. Flying outbound on the back course at Aspen is the same as flying inbound on the front course and vice versa.
https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1902/05889VDC.PDF
05889VDC.PDF
 
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steviedeviant said:
IFR Rated (or those who can help),

I have passed the written and working on my IFR rating. Yes, I have a CFI and I want to see what others would do. I still have a little misconceptions about enroute to getting on and ILS final.

Situation....KBHM to KMEM (Birmingham to Memphis). I am leaving KBHM and on the VUZ VOR V159 to HAB VOR. I am at 5,000 feet and for this situation, let's suppose I am about 10 miles from the HAB VOR at the moment (between VUZ and HAB). Weather is bad and I need to divert and KTUP (Class D) rather than Memphis. I select ILS RWY 36 for my approach.

Using VOR (not GPS), how do I nagivate to the GAGYE IAF to get on the ILS approach? I know this is easy for those of you with experience - and yes, I could just follow a GPS to get there, but what are the steps to consider to get from HAB to touchdown at TUP? I think if someone could give me what they would do, this would be more helpful to me in the learning process. I am a little lost in this process of what I am suppose to do - consider this is a checkride and I have been diverted or have an emergency and need to land. I have and use Foreflight as well.

Thanks,
SD
Click to expand...
As already mentioned, we are talking about the ILS Z since the Y requires GPS. The Z requires ADF or DME. The Chart Supplement does not have an "R" in the approach communications box, so you might not have vectors to final available. That's a bit curious since there is radar coverage down to 2,000 msl. So vectors or direct at least to the off-airway OTB VOR are available.

My "normal" choice, assuming inability to receive vectors to the extended FAC, is this. I'd ask for Direct OTB and either (1) fly the 147-degree radial transition to the NDB (if I had an ADF) or to intercept the LOC outbound, do the PT, come back in; or (2) fly the 235 degree radial to intercept the DME arc (assuming I had DME).

I don't care about the GAGYE IF unless ATC is ale to vector me.
 
benyflyguy said:
Could fly to the OTB VOR then 235 radial to CEVSI and fly the arc to GAGYE
Or ATC can vector you to the approach fix

Keep in mind you’ll need gps to fly the ILS Y 36 approach. The missed you’d need a gps to fly the hold. The ILS Z 36 approach uses all VOR
Click to expand...
Not quite. ILS Z 36 requires ADF or DME so if you have an ADF (I know, nobody uses them), you could fly to the OM then outbound on the localizer, procedure turn, etc. If you have DME, I'd fly to OTB then the outbound on the R-235 radial, then the DME arc.
 
midlifeflyer said:
As already mentioned, we are talking about the ILS Z since the Y requires GPS. he Z requires ADF or DME. The Chart Supplement does not have an "R" in the approach communications box, so you might not have vectors to final available. That's a bit curious since there is radar coverage down to 2,000 msl. So vectors or direct at least to the off-airway OTB VOR are available.

My "normal" choice, assuming inability to receive vectors to the extended FAC, is this. I'd ask for Direct OTB and either (1) fly the 147-degree radial transition to the NDB (if I had an ADF) or to intercept the LOC outbound, do the PT, come back in; or (2) fly the 235 degree radial to intercept the DME arc.

I don't care about the GAGYE IF unless ATC is ale to vector me.
Click to expand...
You beat me to it!
 
steviedeviant said:
IFR Rated (or those who can help),

I have passed the written and working on my IFR rating. Yes, I have a CFI and I want to see what others would do. I still have a little misconceptions about enroute to getting on and ILS final.

Situation....KBHM to KMEM (Birmingham to Memphis). I am leaving KBHM and on the VUZ VOR V159 to HAB VOR. I am at 5,000 feet and for this situation, let's suppose I am about 10 miles from the HAB VOR at the moment (between VUZ and HAB). Weather is bad and I need to divert and KTUP (Class D) rather than Memphis. I select ILS RWY 36 for my approach.

Using VOR (not GPS), how do I nagivate to the GAGYE IAF to get on the ILS approach? I know this is easy for those of you with experience - and yes, I could just follow a GPS to get there, but what are the steps to consider to get from HAB to touchdown at TUP? I think if someone could give me what they would do, this would be more helpful to me in the learning process. I am a little lost in this process of what I am suppose to do - consider this is a checkride and I have been diverted or have an emergency and need to land. I have and use Foreflight as well.

Thanks,
SD
Click to expand...
Ok, you don't have RNAV and you don't want to consider vectors. What do you have besides VOR? DME? ADF?
 
I appreciate the responses from everyone - very helpful.
I do have RNAV, but I wanted to get a better understanding of getting from an enroute filed plan to a deviation to an unscheduled airport using only VOR and DME. I guess radar vectors would be provided from ATC, but for this example, I was really trying to assume no ATC help (maybe a lost communication situation). The answers helped me understand how to consider my options and what choice may be best.

Thanks for the help. I learn best using examples like this.

SD
 
dmspilot said:
You can't, GPS is required for that approach as seen on the approach plate. You could try looking at the ILS Z instead of the ILS Y.
Click to expand...

You are correct - Actually didn't notice the information on the plate stated that RNAV is required for the ILS Y approach. You know what I was thinking: I was thinking ILS was no GPS at all, but just learned that isn't always true. So in this case, ILS would require DME, which I would have. Thank you for pointing that out - again still learning.
 
steviedeviant said:
You are correct - Actually didn't notice the information on the plate stated that RNAV is required for the ILS Y approach. You know what I was thinking: I was thinking ILS was no GPS at all, but just learned that isn't always true. So in this case, ILS would require DME, which I would have. Thank you for pointing that out - again still learning.
Click to expand...
It is becoming pretty common. A number of ILS approaches have been divided into Y and Z variants with the Y version requiring GPS. It appears to primarily be to allow for a TAA, providing more options to join the approach as you can see from the TUP chart.
 
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